Damage replaces penalty?

[Herbie]

Hello guys!

I just read the thread to the mini endurance at spa and lot of people were voting for disabling the penalty...

In fact i was talking to Akis once (cause i saw that in one race everybody was cutting the corners at nurburg about corner cutting and his opinion was that this will be solved anyway in future due to damage implemented...

And isn´t that a well taken point? Excessive corner cutting will be punished through damage now. Running wide on exit will be (imho) punished by fighting for car control anyway.
So what stays is that the 5 sec penalty is just anoying and not usefull anymore or necessary anymore for club races.

What do you think about it?

On the other hand, especially for Spa, there could be a lot "time saved" if the Raidillon is heavily cut (and not punished...) :-/

 

[Georg Siebert]

At this time, we stand by our policy to enable the current penalty system for our AC events.

Penalties will be enabled as on any event.

 

[Herbie]

I know and it´s fine but shouldn´t we discuss it for the future?

 

[Frank]

There still are enough opportunities to do proper corner cutting without damaging your car.

 

[Ryan Ogurek]

Changing the policy on this comes down to peoples behaviour and respect for the rules. If club organisers can trust that no one will take advantage of areas they can cut without ruining their car, we dont need penalties.

 

[Ralf Ääro]

On most servers where Penalties have been disabled people are still racing properly. People who cut the course are only a minority. And in organized Events they should tend to zero.

We have the Gentlemen Agreement and we all want to have fun out there. And this is done best with everyone being fair to each other.

The Penalty System however even punishes you if you have to avoid a collision and leave the track to do so. On top of that, you can well be collected from another car afterwards. For those situations, which I had many times in MP, the Penalty System is not fair and very dangerous.

 

[Kevin Leu]

I was never a fan of the penalties, there are plenty of Sims that make it work without them, especially if we're in a somewhat closed group I don't see any point in them. They are not realistic, dangerous to others and an all around annoyance.

edit: Just to clarify, I'm talking about the 5s slow downs of course, other penalties like DT's or SaG's are part of any normal racing series.

 

[Frank]

Right now, penalties off has proven to be wrong, everytime we tried it something went wrong and people where "benefiting".

We will look in to it when we see people can deal with it.

 

[Herbie]

Right now, penalties off has proven to be wrong, everytime we tried it something went wrong and people where "benefiting".

We will look in to it when we see people can deal with it.

Oh, really? I wouldn't want that of course! I was only quite pleased by how fair and clean club races are here that i thought it's not needed... I didn't participate in too much tough, unfortunately :-/
Still i also agree with the others that the 5s can be very dangerous! Also some corners can be cut that hard without penalty that makes the penalty somehow random and thus a bit useless.
But altough this should not be about winning, it should be about learning and this should NOT include learning how to abuse the track!!

 

[Frank]

Oh, really? I wouldn't want that of course! I was only quite pleased by how fair and clean club races are here that i thought it's not needed... I didn't participate in too much tough, unfortunately :-/
Still i also agree with the others that the 5s can be very dangerous! Also some corners can be cut that hard without penalty that makes the penalty somehow random and thus a bit useless.
But altough this should not be about winning, it should be about learning and this should NOT include learning how to abuse the track!!

There definitely are some very clean club races, however there are also many that are opposites. The bad ones are being noted and are being taken care of and eventually we will be able to drive without penalties. The club is still young and it needs some time to mature before we can drive the way we all want it.

 

[William Wester]

For discussion sake, in club races where there isn't any points system what would it matter if someone does cut a corner here or there unintentionally or intentionally. It's just for fun and if a racer finishes 1st, 4th, or 10th what's the big deal as nothing is riding on the outcome. Granted, if someone is "consistently" taking advantage to cheat they could be reprimanded.
It doesn't really matter much, race to have fun. If winning means everything then where's the fun - I know as I don't win but I do have fun ;-)

 

[Herbie]

Hey, we even "learned" race starts and reverse order restart!
There is still hope
Don't give up on us

 

[Herbie]

For discussion sake, in club races where there isn't any points system what would it matter if someone does cut a corner here or there unintentionally or intentionally. It's just for fun and if a racer finishes 1st, 4th, or 10th what's the big deal as nothing is riding on the outcome. Granted, if someone is "consistently" taking advantage to cheat they could be reprimanded.
It doesn't really matter much, race to have fun. If winning means everything then where's the fun - I know as I don't win but I do have fun ;-)

It's not about winning but FAIR racing imo!! I would be discouraged by somebody cheating

 

[Ryan Ogurek]

For discussion sake, in club races where there isn't any points system what would it matter if someone does cut a corner here or there unintentionally or intentionally. It's just for fun and if a racer finishes 1st, 4th, or 10th what's the big deal as nothing is riding on the outcome. Granted, if someone is "consistently" taking advantage to cheat they could be reprimanded.
It doesn't really matter much, race to have fun. If winning means everything then where's the fun - I know as I don't win but I do have fun ;-)

I think a big part (if not the biggest) of this is about respect for other racers and the rules. If you are consistently exploiting a corner and cutting it, its just not fair to all those who struggle to brake for the corner you are just flying through. Its not so much the issue of that you are getting first, just that its unfair and frustrating for others.

Also, our club's rules are for the most part structured after real life racing clubs. So a part of the reason for a no cutting rule follows this as well.

Hey, we even "learned" race starts and reverse order restart!
There is still hope
Don't give up on us

We certainly haven't given up! We just want to maintain a fair and fun environment. Watching someone fly past a chicane on the grass can be very frustrating, and puts a damper on that fun. So does the 5 second penalty however, so we have to balance it as best as we can.

Really its up to the racers, if we consistently see that there is no cutting happening, there is no need for the penalties and we can remove them. The US clubs have been racing with penalties off for quite some time now. There has not been one case that someone was deliberately abusing the track limits, and there has been plenty of cases of someone going off to avoid an accident, getting the 5 second penalty, and causing another accident because of it. So no penalty, and to this point it has not been abused whatsoever. The EU club seems to be generally more competitive, and people tend to take every inch they can, hence the need for the penalty. Yes, most of these are a few people and not the majority. We try to address these cases as we can, but without a moderator constantly spectating it can be difficult to monitor.

I hate the current penalty system also, and I'm much happier without it. So here's how you all can help to eliminate the need for it.

• If you see someone repeatedly cutting the track, make a report of it.
• Encourage a fun, friendly, and helpful atmosphere during club events, try not to be competitive, and not to encourage others to be.

I'm not saying to try to get faster, but lets all help each other become better racers.

 

[William Wester]

It's not about winning but FAIR racing imo!! I would be discouraged by somebody cheating

Of course, cheating is discouraging but as @Ryan Ogurek stated:

"I hate the current penalty system also, and I'm much happier without it. So here's how you all can help to eliminate the need for it.

• If you see someone repeatedly cutting the track, make a report of it.
• Encourage a fun, friendly, and helpful atmosphere during club events, try not to be competitive, and not to encourage others to be.

I'm not saying to try to get faster, but lets all help each other become better racers."

This is the point I was making.

 

[ouvert]

well best way would be to have overwatching person giving go through pits penalty (you have 3 laps to drive through pits, if you don`t - blue - black- bye) .. that will teach `em corner cutters that way you can also judge if it was intetional or just to avoid crash, etc ..

damage thingy is not gonna work, you can cut lots of corners with gaining speed without taking damage (you can take Eau Rouge almost without moving your wheel, flat), or just run wide (12 corner (Pouhon) on Spa f.e. you can go wiiide withou compromising stability) ...

 

[Jempy]

Did you ever try Penalty as this in the server_cfg.ini ?
ALLOWED_TYRES_OUT=3
We use it at our league and it seems ( or maybe is it just an impression ? ) that really cutting gets penalty but a missed curve doesn't cost anything as long as 1 wheel is remaining on the track.

Still hating the actual penalty system in races ( ok for Hotlaps ): really annoying in straights if you're pushed aside or dangerous for the drivers coming behind ... and now pitstops are possible online, I still wonder why it hasn't been changed for good old warnings and stop&go or drive through penalties.
Maybe in a next future ?? hoping so !

 

[Stereo]

Hopefully replays will get integrated better into MP in the future, I know it makes one but it's a lot of work to go back and view it compared with SP where it just gives you a button at the end.

 

[Terry Rock]

Anybody else think the penalty for going off the racing line is too long at 4 secs?
Four seconds is a lifetime over a lap.
Shouldn't it be closer to a second or two at most?
I was running a race at Spa yesterday and had to run off track at Pouhon to avoid a car that had spun there....penalty of four secs.
The 'spinner' got his car turned around and going again and there I was, still trying to get moving with the red flashing penalty warning.
Totally frustrating for it to be this long.

 

[Georg Siebert]

Anybody else think the penalty for going off the racing line is too long at 4 secs?
Four seconds is a lifetime over a lap.
Shouldn't it be closer to a second or two at most?
I was running a race at Spa yesterday and had to run off track at Pouhon to avoid a car that had spun there....penalty of four secs.
The 'spinner' got his car turned around and going again and there I was, still trying to get moving with the red flashing penalty warning.
Totally frustrating for it to be this long.

The time penalty is 5 seconds.
In my personal opinion, the current penalty system is inelegant - a fitting metaphor is a sledgehammer to fix a birds nest.
Having said that, our current policy stands as follows:

At this time, we stand by our policy to enable the current penalty system for our AC events.