Cutting the track

Nicolai Nicholson · Sep 8, 2011

Monza is a track that greatly rewards cutting in terms of lap times. There are three chicanes where you need to "eat" as much curb as possible to get a good lap time. However, in all three chicanes one can eat too much, so that one leave the track completely (aslo called cutting).

The more you respect the no cutting rule, the slower you will be, and vice versa. What we want is for all to have (more or less) the same amount of respect for this rule, to make it a fair competition.

Looking at the replay of the practice race I noticed that the fastest drivers were cutting like there was no tomorrowed compared to the rest. In particular Gaetano and Dave, with Christian R close behind. I only watched around 15 laps, but all three cut the track at least once per lap, many times twice or even three times a lap.

To put it simple, at the real race (at Monza) one might have a handfull of narrow cuts (around 5-10) throughout the race, but much more than that will be seen as unfair. And BIG cuts like I saw numerous times in the exit of Roggia should never happen. And in the qualify, any cutting is unacceptable.

As I said above, the main goal is that we respect the no cutting rule to the same degree. I just revieled that at Monza, with 55 laps, I think 5-10 narrow cuts is within the limits. Do people agree with me, or do some think it is too much or too little? I might add that it is the exit of Ascari where I see that cutting can happen by accident, as it is like threading a needle. It is important to discuss this so we all feel we interpet the rule the same way

David Turnbull · Sep 8, 2011

to be honest, im not too bothered about a few inches over the lines on monza, no one is perfect so there will be some degree of cuts and wides, i dont think theres any need to enforce any cutting rules we should all know the rules, but some of the cuts and wides went way over the line, its that we need to get rid of, thats cheating to make time no other reason for doing it, we all miss a braking point and over shoot sometimes and sometimes we will turn in a bit early but to purposely miss the corner by feet rather than inches is bad, all we can really do is accept that this thread will make some folk decide against cheating its either that or go back to watching replays and penalties.

Christian Ramlow · Sep 8, 2011

im 100 % with david.
yesterday we see 2 styles of cut

this is cheating. when u see the replay everybody know what i mean ... but ok i hope we doenst see this anymore in our races.
btw 5 lap or practice race or main race..

and the second everybody know what we mean .. that can happen specially in driving with slipstream ..
im agree with some cuts of me in ascari, but on saturday to the fpps race i have fixed that ...

i have no problem when i see this .. in roggia i miss my point 3 or 4 times dont know now but this is unintentionally ( hope thats is the right word

)

i hate only deliberate or planning? cutting .. thats only the problem .. but its is ok now .. dave i hope i never see this .. ur a really fast driver..Thou had something not necessary!

omg i hope u all can understand my reson .. god im so bad in english only a f-

i happy when monza is over

cya

a little ask ,...

is that a cut ?

sry i cant creat these pics in little

Dave Russell · Sep 8, 2011

As mentioned in a previous thread, I apologised for this and gave my reasons albeit as since learned is still not acceptable to which I now fully understand even during a practise race, so again I apologise for this and probably deserve the naming and shaming in my own personal thread dedicated to pointing the finger at me! (I know this was not your intention Nico as you mentioned no names). I think everyone else already fully understands this style of driving, no matter whether its a practise race or not, is not acceptable and it was just lack of forethinking on my part which is obvious now.

I hope Christian and David can understand my reasons (even though not right) and accept my apology too and we can hopefully move on from this!?

Nicolai Nicholson · Sep 8, 2011

I am only sorry I didn't underline that what happened after lap 21 or whenever it was is uninteresting, it is solved. I am talking about the general racing line.

Look at it this way, we race 55 laps, I am guessing, from what I saw between lap 5 and 20, that Dave, Christian and Gaetano would technically cut the track somewhere between 50 and 150 times each during the race. Most other would probably be between 0-20. This is not good, because that would make the cutters on average faster than the rest.

Cutting at Presto GP follows the same rules as football

a wheel have left the track if there is air between the wheel and the white line. 2 wheels on track at all times.

I will get som stats to illustrate my point

Christian Ramlow · Sep 8, 2011

i take now 5 minutes of my life

i have 8 cuts from lap 1 to 30 ( 5 x second chikane )(3x ascaari )( i know 8 too many) with some scenes in ascaari I did not have desire my 10cm ruler put out

after lap 30 i was sleeping in my chair

.. and u take me in the 50 - 150 cuts :-( ( i was 6,76% of us 3 )

you throw me degree in one much darken area.

but im fine with all now. dave it is all ok sorry 4 my post yesterday. my will you was not to be insulted or be talked over you badly. next time i need to sleep 8 hours before ill post anyone.

cu on monza

Nicolai Nicholson · Sep 8, 2011

I am not out to get anybody, I am just watching over the league, and when I see something that needs correcting, I try to help

This time I noticed a lot of cutting from the front runners compared to others. Since you didn't get my point immediatly, I thought I would gather some numbers. I looked at 10 laps, starting from lap 5 (due to limitations to my 3 screen setup) including lap 14. I looked at the three I mentioned and tossed in myself and David T since he was active in this thread. I judge all 5 with the same strictness.

Dave: 16 cuts
Gaetano: 13 cuts (but he crashed halfway through lap 13, so only 8 1/2 laps)
Christian: 12 cuts
David T: 0 cuts
Nicolai: 2 cuts

So all I am saying is, the three of you are for different reasons cutting the track quite a bit compared to the rest. Personally, after the race, I knew I had driven too untidy, and that I cut the track too much. I will however make sure that is rectified for the race next week.

Christian and Dave, you are both more or less new to the euro league, so I assume that is the reason for you being slightly out of sync in regards to the cutting issue. Gaetano, you acctually cut the track big time at the exit of Roggia every single lap I watched (9 laps from lap 5 to lap 13). That is not an accident, that is a racing line.

Christian Ramlow · Sep 9, 2011

im agree nico. .. on wedensday i have 0! i think 1 more front wing will help me

David Turnbull · Sep 9, 2011

im going to add that nico has probably picked the only laps that i DIDNT cut

, im guilty of it too , to an extent we all do it, mostly unintentionally, accidents happen, lap 2 i think i was following 3 cars in a line through ascari chicane, i was so close i lost sight of my line and cut it slightly, it wasnt ment but accidents happen, like i said earlier monza doesny bother me with a few inches here and there, its unavoidable unless we deliberatly slow ourselves down and when we are all trying to go as fast as possible then it gets hard.

apology accepted here dave, we all make mistakes, you wont anymore

Peter Marshall · Sep 9, 2011

Nicolai Nicholson said:
As I said above, the main goal is that we respect the no cutting rule to the same degree. I just revieled that at Monza, with 55 laps, I think 5-10 narrow cuts is within the limits. Do people agree with me, or do some think it is too much or too little? I might add that it is the exit of Ascari where I see that cutting can happen by accident, as it is like threading a needle. It is important to discuss this so we all feel we interpet the rule the same way

Turn the Flag Rules back on for this race. :tongue:

Reik Major · Sep 9, 2011

Wow, I didn't think that cutting becomes such a debate again.

I'm sure we all agree that we are driving gentlemen like. There was just a different interpretation how strict we are in a practice race. Personally I think one should drive the same gentle style every time. No matter if hot lapping on the server, doing a practice race or driving the main event.

Finally Nicolai just wants us to behave in the same way, so he has all rights to criticize and sometimes say names (if needed). It's only to help us all to keep our high level of fairness and racing quality. It's human nature that we some times need a little reminder.

Now that our new "Hulk" received a very nice punishment I'm sure he'll be the most beloved creature on earth in the future. :tongue: (Don't take this too serious guys)

From my point of view cutting and going wide is much to dangerous and would cause me easily to spin (especially when the middle of the car touches the ground). That's why I'll stay away from the curbs as often as I can...

Peter Marshall · Sep 10, 2011

Reik Major said:
Wow, I didn't think that cutting becomes such a debate again.

haha

Yes, but it is appers to be more about by "how much" and "how regularly" we are all permitted to make "unintentional" mistakes. J The number "10" appears to be OK. J

Thank you very much Nico for your time and effort to explain the Presto standards again. You are a champion!

Mitchell Smith · Sep 10, 2011

Monza is a SimBin made track, Peter's solution makes the most sense. Just turn the flag rules on and people will be scared to get stop and go's.

Unless that gives you a black flag for speeding in the pit, I dont admin servers I wouldnt know. I too will be happy when Monza is over, it's a difficult race for many reasons other then the track, which people never seem to fail to underestimate how hard it can be, the 2nd lesmo and parabolica in particular.

Nicolai Nicholson · Sep 10, 2011

In a way it so not problem with cutting, we just need to get our new members in sync with the rest. Turning on the flag rules would perhaps help us on this track but would do little with the overall attitude that we need for every race

And yes, we would get penalty for speeding in the pits with the flag rules turned on

David Turnbull · Sep 10, 2011

if we turn flags back on im willing to bet that we could very well end up with the MOST stop and go penalties in one race EVER!

Mitchell Smith · Sep 10, 2011

Singapore two seasons ago was pretty bad, that bug where you used the run off and got a straight stop and go was painful..

Anyway I retract my statement, ta Nick.

I dont think the new guys have too much trouble to be fair, I've driven with alot of the new blood (for Pacific anyway) and watched them (and everyone) carefully and they're all good drivers. People honestly do just underestimate this track a bit.