Misc Christiaan's Pure FFB 2.3

[pvthaskins]

LogiForce submitted a new resource:

Christiaan's Pure FFB - Pure Force Feedback without canned effects, like how a car should feel

So this will work on any DD Wheel?
Also to you have ffb files for AC and rf2?

Am going to DL this tonight when I get off work.. Thanks for all your hard work!


Read more about this resource...

 

[LogiForce]

So this will work on any DD Wheel?
Also to you have ffb files for AC and rf2?

Am going to DL this tonight when I get off work.. Thanks for all your hard work!

Works with any DD wheel.
Sorry, I only work on pC2 at the moment.

 

[rmagid1010]

This is brilliant, is there an AMS2 version?

 

[LogiForce]

This is brilliant, is there an AMS2 version?

No unfortunately there isn't because AMS2 has altered the FFB system to their tastes, so it works somewhat different and I haven't had the time to dive into that.

 

[LogiForce]

Also as an update to all. I have been banned over on the Project CARS forum it seems. Apparently for insulting SMS and it is to never be lifted.

So I guess my insight was correct in that it was a good thing I moved my stuff over here before it was too late.

 

[rmagid1010]

Also as an update to all. I have been banned over on the Project CARS forum it seems. Apparently for insulting SMS and it is to never be lifted.

So I guess my insight was correct in that it was a good thing I moved my stuff over here before it was too late.

I hope this encourages you when you realise that you do a better job than their devs at making good ffb and they didnt like that

 

[LogiForce]

I hope this encourages you when you realise that you do a better job than their devs at making good ffb and they didnt like that

Well, that's the thing. I indeed have to remember that I do it for my fellow sim racers. Not for as a former WMD member feeling obliged to fix that which SMS did not.


By the way, sorry for the lack of updates but life got in the way a bit and by the time I have my hands free I am too tired to get to it. Hopefully I can get back to it soon.

 

[RockyTM]

Hi I wondered if the gain, vol, tone and FX sliders correspond?
E.g: is 100/30/50/50 the same as 50/80/100/100?

 

[LogiForce]

Hi I wondered if the gain, vol, tone and FX sliders correspond?
E.g: is 100/30/50/50 the same as 50/80/100/100?

No, there is no link in that sense between each of the dials.

Gain = Overal volume
Volume = Physics driven FFB Volume (initial volume stage)
Tone = Volume for load differential (between the left and right tyres) based FFB
FX = Volume of added engine noise and gearbox shunt.

 

[RockyTM]

Yes, I understand that, but will the 2 different settings above feel about the same?

 

[LogiForce]

Yes, I understand that, but will the 2 different settings above feel about the same?

No, because you strike the balance of volumes with volume/tone/fx and it doesn't scale linearly.
So it definitely is not as easy as you hope it to be. Especially tone is not linear and it will massively impact feel if set differently.

 

[dave krlly]

I was having issues with the curbs jolting massively on certain tracks and the starting grid oscillations were annoying for me
Just editing the file to lower them to 1.1 from 1.5 bump force I think it was or curb something within the text file worked for me and reduce the engine value slightly stops it,playing on dd1 ,if anyone had the same issue and found a good work around let me know because I’d still like to see if there’s a better way thanks

 

[robnitro]

I was having issues with the curbs jolting massively on certain tracks and the starting grid oscillations were annoying for me
Just editing the file to lower them to 1.1 from 1.5 bump force I think it was or curb something within the text file worked for me and reduce the engine value slightly stops it,playing on dd1 ,if anyone had the same issue and found a good work around let me know because I’d still like to see if there’s a better way thanks

I'm using this setup instead and its way better for the logitech g27 https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/silver-project-custom-ffb.190130/

 

[LogiForce]

I was having issues with the curbs jolting massively on certain tracks and the starting grid oscillations were annoying for me
Just editing the file to lower them to 1.1 from 1.5 bump force I think it was or curb something within the text file worked for me and reduce the engine value slightly stops it,playing on dd1 ,if anyone had the same issue and found a good work around let me know because I’d still like to see if there’s a better way thanks

The oscillation comes from the tyre force differential thing I used. Try to lower the tone dial as well.

Thanks for the heads-up though.

What did you put the engine noise value on though? Which can be disabled with FX at 0 (but also disabled gearbox shunts).

 

[mgh24]

Sorry, noob here.

Just finally got into sim racing, started with AC, now have PC2 also. Know how to install mods for AC, but no idea how I implement this ffb mod.

Can someone point me towards some instructions?

Once mod is installed, I make my adjustments within the game?

Thanks!

 

[LogiForce]

Sorry, noob here.

Just finally got into sim racing, started with AC, now have PC2 also. Know how to install mods for AC, but no idea how I implement this ffb mod.

Can someone point me towards some instructions?

Once mod is installed, I make my adjustments within the game?

Thanks!

Just extract the "ffb_custom_settings.txt" to your "Documents/Project CARS 2/" folder.

Boot the game.
Options > Controllers > Force Feedback
Select: Flavour = Custom

Adjust the settings to...
Gain: 100
Volume: 50
Tone: 50
FX: 50

Then adjust to your liking after a few laps.

Good luck and happy racing!

 

[mgh24]

Much appreciated!

 

[Eagleone]

Your work is much appreciated for the time and effort. For the CSL elite i cant get good feel at low g's such as when driving slow chicanes, low speed feel needs more weight . I don't know what to change in the custom settings file for that to happen. If i change tone or volume other things get worse so if anyone can point me in the right direction i would be grateful. Using v 2.3

 

[AJ Weber]

One thing I'd add, to any FFB testing, is to try on any of the "Comp" or "Sport" option tires. Those tires actually sample forces from the hub, not the contact patch, meaning that the force feedback itself has the carcass properly "filtering" as in a real car. The two side effects are that the tire needs a lot more engineering time to parameterize, and that the real tire latency is in there. That last bit might sound cool, and it is mostly, but FFB on a computer also has latency. So one trick is to kinda hide the systemic latency by throwing out the simulated latency, and sampling the force at the patch. This means at a standstill, a sample-at-hub tire might be more prone to oscillate than a sample-at-patch tire.

Two things that just-fall-out once you have a tire setup this way are A) relaxation length and B) oscillation bite. Some tire models bolt on relaxation length in one way or another, but through a full run time dynamic simulated carcass, it just falls out. Oscillation bite is something we discovered with real-life drivers, trying to get to the bottom of something that was missing at the time from a GT car, working with the real driver (who had an engineering brain) of that car. It is a lot more than just turn-in bite. It also affects how the rear recovers, and avoids that simmy LSS type of spin.

But when it is nailed, the upside is, in my opinion, huge. Try, for example, the Group C1 cars on their default tires. Then switch to the Comp tires. The violence (in a cool/correct way) is much more present. The feel, and also handling, is a significant step up in several aspects. However, be sure to let them warm up. One of the other real life drivers really put his foot down on the Comps to have them be nasty when cold. Since these tires were opt-in non default tires, we went ahead and did that. My personal favorite car in PC2 is the Formula Renault 3.5 on Comp tires. You'll never set a leaderboard sort of time on Comps (they are slower), but they feel great on more raw style FFB (like the FFB in the file at hand here). Also, something like the L25 on the optional vintage tires (which are also sample at hub) is on truly authentic grip (which is really, very low...like 1.1-1.2 effective Cf or less), but is completely controllable and fun.

 

[LogiForce]

One thing I'd add, to any FFB testing, is to try on any of the "Comp" or "Sport" option tires. Those tires actually sample forces from the hub, not the contact patch, meaning that the force feedback itself has the carcass properly "filtering" as in a real car. The two side effects are that the tire needs a lot more engineering time to parameterize, and that the real tire latency is in there. That last bit might sound cool, and it is mostly, but FFB on a computer also has latency. So one trick is to kinda hide the systemic latency by throwing out the simulated latency, and sampling the force at the patch. This means at a standstill, a sample-at-hub tire might be more prone to oscillate than a sample-at-patch tire.

Two things that just-fall-out once you have a tire setup this way are A) relaxation length and B) oscillation bite. Some tire models bolt on relaxation length in one way or another, but through a full run time dynamic simulated carcass, it just falls out. Oscillation bite is something we discovered with real-life drivers, trying to get to the bottom of something that was missing at the time from a GT car, working with the real driver (who had an engineering brain) of that car. It is a lot more than just turn-in bite. It also affects how the rear recovers, and avoids that simmy LSS type of spin.

But when it is nailed, the upside is, in my opinion, huge. Try, for example, the Group C1 cars on their default tires. Then switch to the Comp tires. The violence (in a cool/correct way) is much more present. The feel, and also handling, is a significant step up in several aspects. However, be sure to let them warm up. One of the other real life drivers really put his foot down on the Comps to have them be nasty when cold. Since these tires were opt-in non default tires, we went ahead and did that. My personal favorite car in PC2 is the Formula Renault 3.5 on Comp tires. You'll never set a leaderboard sort of time on Comps (they are slower), but they feel great on more raw style FFB (like the FFB in the file at hand here). Also, something like the L25 on the optional vintage tires (which are also sample at hub) is on truly authentic grip (which is really, very low...like 1.1-1.2 effective Cf or less), but is completely controllable and fun.

Wow... thanks for the reply AJ. Long time no see by the way.
Also I agree on the Formula Renault 3.5 with the comp tyres and also got feedback from the ex-Formula 3 driver I was and still am working with that it is the most realistic open wheeler, at least as far as his own experience goes in open wheelers.
The biggest issue point he mentions was that the curbs in pCARS2 are really muted compared to the real deal, and it should be far harsher (for which he referred me to ACC). For this I tried to utilize load differential between the tyres, but it comes with a downside and that is that you have to keep your hands on the wheel otherwise you will get oscillation on corner exit or course road surface because the load wants to equalize but has no proper counter force.

I will definitely give that a go but I am kind of stuck with progressing the FFB file in the direction I feel is necessary. Would you mind if I hit you up on PM for a bit as to throw back and forth some thoughts and issue points?
The point I am mostly stuck with is that the 'Steering Rack' doesn't seem to be simulated on a physics level, but what we do in FFB file is just like basically layering the 4 audio tracks of the tyres on top of each other in the mix and hope it balances out, which it obviously won't as it is just layered and is being balanced out at the wheel at low frequency (which is an issue).
So maybe I can dive into this with you, if you are willing and maybe figure out a solution and maybe workaround? Because I am a bit at wits end myself to be honest.


Update:
I just tried your Formula Renault 3.5 + Comp tyres recommendation (using Loose setup as a basis by the way) and what I immediately notice is how dynamic it all becomes.
The latency added results in the driver having the time to brace himself to catch the car, because you feel the load build up due to the dynamic carcass simulation.
This in return makes it easier to for example due a warm-up routine by doing the iconic zig zag motion, but also during cornering it becomes really much more intuitive to load up the car upon entry and balance the car by mid corner. Than as you accelerate past apex you can balance the throttle and steering easily by gauging the load on the tyres more easily.
Last but not least braking has become far more dynamic as well as I can feel each tyre locking up individually and feel the car squirm a little under braking. I guess because there is some latency and you thus don't have a FFB execution from the motor, at a physics level it gives the car more time to go that bit more out of control/gives that more time to move around under braking that it as a package feels far more natural.
Then there is the far better temperature dynamic between stone cold and hot with these tyres. Which is the icing on the cake if I have to be honest, as in Free Practice mode you really feel the full dynamic progression the tyres go through as the Physics and FFB change.

All in all... once those tyres got hot I was chasing lap times and forgetting the time. You know me AJ... I always said that everything has to be dynamic because everything is ever changing in nature. So I just love all those dynamics that I wish were throughout the entire sim.
Just to quote you "the upside is huge"... and I want to emphasis the HUGE bit there. Who cares about leaderboard times, I am in it for the experience of the ride. I want to be in the car that I'll never be in within the real world, the competitive aspect only follows the simulation aspect and it is something that always will follow the simulation aspect by its very nature. Because whilst racing is a mechanical sport for a racing driver competing it in essence is about who has the better car control and who is better at taming their beast of a car, which will eventually lead them to victory if all is right.

It's getting late... 3 AM here in Groningen, The Netherlands... so I'll have to pick up on the other recommends tomorrow.
I hope we can do a back and forth one day on how to further improve the experience force feedback wise though.