Cars Caterham Academy 2020 1.5

[Enterada]

The red 420 looks about right to me for an S3. I've just measured mine and the same panel is 1100mm wide and 470mm high (to the top of the black boot cover).

A couple of other dimensions on mine as a further reference: width of the base of the windscreen 1000mm. Widest point of radiator opening 520mm, height of radiator opening 225mm.

A couple of other checks. The boot cover of an S3 has 8 popers along the straight part of the back, whereas an SV has only 7. The windscreen of an S3 has 5 poppers along the top of the screen, whereas an SV has 9.

I'd be glad to send my manual, which has dimensions, but you can find a more up to date one one here:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/827135/Caterham-Seven.html
Page 18 gives the dimensions you're after.

Re the 160, I confess I don't know, but would be surprised if the dimensions are any different, as that would require a new jig for the chassis, and I can't imagine Caterham being happy with the added cost.

There are other little details that look out of place, like the sump, which looks a little too far back for the Academy, which uses the Sigma engine, but that would be being far too picky. Its a really lovely rendition.

I've now driven your latest version. Lovelly, thank you. The brakes seem a bit 'sudden', not as progressive as the real thing, and she does feel a touch too twitchy. These cars don't have any ABS, power assisted steering, nor brake assisted servos. Dunno how difficult it is to allow suspension adjustment, but the real thing is easy to alter on most 7s as they have adjustable platforms and is part of the fun of playing with the car (though on the Academy cars theyre all set the same by Caterham). Be glad to include the suspension set up that Caterham recommends if its of interest.

Oh, and being a Briton, please may we have the option of the chauffeur on the right side (its no coincidence that all aircraft carriers have the control tower on the right hand side, and countries that drive on the left have fewer accidents per mile).

Glad to provide any more info if of use.

Regards
A.

 

[Ben O'Bro]

Hi, the brake line of the right wheel moves with the suspension, is that ok? I think it's been reported already

minute 3:09

Ah that little Fu***er !!

 

[JackCY]

Hi, the brake line of the right wheel moves with the suspension, is that ok? I think it's been reported already

minute 3:09

Not animated yet I suppose. Or just wrong naming somewhere when importing to AC.

I have this version of the handbook PDF, I have some other too with the same data, sadly not everything in these is deadly accurate and Caterham likes to boast at least with the weights. They are dry weights, without pretty much any fluids one can thing of XD At least that's how it seems like when people have the real thing weighted. The dimensions usually are correct.

If you can fill dimensions into these that you want checked, then send it back to Ben&Me we can check it. It's difficult to precisely know what has been measured from words.







It's still a 1700 on the Academy. Brakes have no temperature as Kunos uses it only on some cars and when I checked it in telemetry on latest patch it seemed broken, the temperature reported was locked to air temp. so... I think it worked before and I could see the temp. but now I can't which means it's near impossible to tune it and check, skipped the brake temps. most cars don't have it in AC anyway and those that do are often some race cars or super cars, making it hard to tune this for a road car let alone a small Cat. The brakes are linear, throttle is linear too.

Suspension adjustment will be allowed as per regulations and maybe some things open to user adjustment more when real data is not known, will see. AC only support camber, toe for DWB and STRUT not for AXLE. Ackerman is "locked" and changes with how you set the toe for sure. No setup menu inclinations or other things possible, the adjustment in AC is not done on the arms as on a real thing but on the "hub". Springs will be allowed if they are allowed in regulations, dampers will see. Have to compile it all this week and put it in.

Academy is a Roadsport with 1270 mm front it seems so far. Anyone seen a dyno of this odd Sigma 125 engine? I have a million duratec ones Because who right in their mind would buy the Sigma

Ben: I don't know if this is in the model but there is a rule addition that mandates this:

No handbrake

 

[Ben O'Bro]

Ben: I don't know if this is in the model but there is a rule addition that mandates this:

No handbrake

Oh boy.. but i modeled it !
meh, i can add the scotch, leave the handbrake for the 420r street version and ++

 

[JackCY]

The rules and such are here: http://uk.caterhamcars.com/motorsport/academy/downloads

It is mandatory to use tape (or other means) to bridge the gap between the end of the handbrake lever and the top of the transmission tunnel.
Reason
The reason for this additional paragraph is to prevent the left - hand arm restraint becoming caught under the handbrake lever which can cause the driver’s arm movement to be severely restricted and the handbrake to be inadvertently applied.

They use the racing hand straps which can get caught on stuff. Such as lets change gear, move hand back to wheel, surprise handbrake!

Maybe the safety will one day be so out the wazoo they will make the cars remote and you can drive them from home.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

so it should be the 3d (added tape) and no handbrake on the physics then?

 

[JackCY]

Yes, no handbrake in physics, as low as AC will allow is what I will set. Either 0 but if that is bugged then 1 or other very low value that is not bugged. The photo above is from French's blog. Still collecting things, it's easier to make some changes earlier than later though I don't know if we can find weight measurements, will see I'm sure there might be a list of things to ask owners around for and update later. It's just a pain time wise to fiddle with weight, balance and springs later as it modifies the balance but mainly bumpstops and such that I do manually at the very end.

Precise weight or weights and dyno is what I'm after now, I saw some Cat owners talking about dyno of the Sigma but no one posted any. And the classic civil cars with this engine are tuned different. Someone finds anything send it over If not found it will be approximated from what is known and changed later when better data becomes available.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

you know the power/ torque graph from the UI is wrong
from the engine data.
Logbook: Caterham Academy
Engine: 1595cc 16v 4-cyl, 125bhp @ 6100rpm, 119lb ft @ 5350rpm
and that's why I see on the videos they change gear at high rpm but if you check the power graph/curve on the UI (which would be the right place to check for it, and see where's the best shifting point available) the curve is very low

 

[JackCY]

Because that's a 1700 It's provisional. Below v1.0 it's check the model but physics are a place holder. The UI I will regenerate from the power used etc. Academy Sigma has redline 6800rpm and a more revy engine. Though I find the redline numbers from the handbook not that reliable, I will rather check in videos or ask and see from there where the redline actually is at.

 

[Enterada]

I know what you mean about getting hold of dyno figures. You're welcome to mine, but its a higher power output, so proably isn't much good. Oh! And thanks for the comment about we Sigma owners! At least we don't have to keep the revs up constantly, and the engine is bullet-proof. I'm glad I didn't buy the K series I almost went for.

I'll see if I can get an Academy one from somewhere, but couldn't get hold of any before I had my own done. Caterham don't give them out.

If you blokes are going to go as far as the tape on the handbrake (!!!), do you want me to be picky about all the other bits?

 

[JackCY]

If it's a model then forward to Ben and provide a reference photo(s) etc. he can use to model by when there is some strange thing. Some things are simplified, etc. especially the stuff on bottom on 1700 was as no one really but me looks there anyway

Yeah the dynos are not so easy to find for the models below R300, the 1700 xflow we had from someone as well but at least that engine was used widely elsewhere so I had some other dynos too if need be although they were mostly way too tuned versions to be useful.

What is yours advertised at? 155bhp? What is the precise car model name+year and are there any engine mods? Was it measured on wheels or engine was taken out into one of those more special rigs? The loss from engine to wheels being around 29% seems oddly high. It should be around 15%. The curve looks alright though quite what I had in mind it would be, similar how Caterham tunes the newer 2.0L Duratecs compared to the older ones used in R400 that had more torque mid range and were less polished, more bumpy curve to a point where too bumpy would tear the wheels off at least in AC on semislicks. Not a problem to scale it down in power and rpm range.

2.0L Duratec is what I would choose but they cost a lot. Even the 310 is Sigma and not Duratec, Caterham adding more and more confusing versions when trying to remove the old model naming confusion.

I knew I saw the 360 somewhere... probably a mistake on wiki, on Caterham webpage it's the 310 that has Sigma.

Some Caterham Cars use Ford Sigma engines [3], such as the Caterham Seven 360, which as of 2016 uses a tuned Sigma engine which produces 180 hp (134 kW) at 7300 rpm.

The engines are real naming mess too if one looks into it:

• 2.0L (2.3L) Duratec is Ford Cosworth Duratec "rebranded/licensed" Mazda L MZR engine, and on top of that all the engines are built for Caterham and aren't a 100% equal thing as used in other cars..., many names and variants exist, new higher power Cat models
  
• Rover 1.8 litre K-series, ALU/ALU, rev happy but the 2.0L Duratec is better I think and replaced it, ALU/ALU, old higher power Cat models
  
• 1.6L Sigma is a Ford Sigma Zetec Duratec Duratec Duratec Ti-VCT, yeah that many names and countless variants, ALU/ALU, they will probably use this forever while they can pass emissions with it, most lower power Cat models

Both Ford engines have some collaboration with Yamaha and Mazda and sold under other names I probably won't even find.

• 1600, 1700 are Ford Kent Crossflow Cossworth BDA (BDR for Caterham) engine, iron/iron, old Cat models
  
• countless other variants for all the odd versions, 1400 etc. Caterham needs some they buy it
• Ford needs some engine they have it made by someone else or do it in a collaboration

---

Should have almost all data now to start putting it together. Weight is 625kg minimum BTW.

 

[aphidgod]

On the power loss of 29%, you have to keep in mind that all dynos are not equal. (Nor engines, if we're honest.) The same car on the same day on two different dynos will give two (possibly very) different results. The dyno that shows a 30% driveline loss may just be a low-reading unit. Those mustang dynos usually won't flatter like a dynojet...

Best bet is to scale your curve to meet performance targets anyway, so don't be afraid to adjust the numbers from the dyno sheet.

 

[Enterada]

JackCY,

If its me you're addressing, then I'm afraid I don't know how to send anything to anyone, other than posting a picture here. How do I send it? Is there an email address?

The info is just what you can see here from the Dyno printout , anyway. The log book says the car was originally bulit as a Sigma 150. I have been told, and Caterahm confirm that it might well be true, that these gave some problems at low revs in traffic, so were detuned to 140. It was sold to me as a 140, but showed 156 when I had it dyno'd and corner weighted. The dyno was new, a German Maha MSR500.

I have no record af any tweeks or mods to the car. I have only had some better spark plugs put in and a different air filter. At the last big service, a month ago, Caterham confirmed that things like this and even a different air filter, can boost the power. The ower loss to the wheels could well be the larger wheels I have fitter, increasing the polar momentum, and I do not have a lightweight flywheel, 'cos she's set up as a tourer. Despite the extra power, the increased SV chassis weight, fuel tank, wheels etc, (I even leave the spare wheel on the back), means she turns in about the same performance as a 140 S3.

The current range has been greatly simplified, with now 6 versions for the UK, plus the Academy. This comprises 160 with Suzuki engine, the 270 and 310, with Sigma engines, and the 360, 420 and 620 with Duratec. There is a different, smaller range for export, most of which go to France, with Japan being the next biggest market. The only ones I've driven are older 140s, my own, a couple of Academy's and a 620 least month.

I have found some dyno printouts from a range of 7s, from different sources, when I was trying to get an idea of the torque curve for my own car before having it dyno'd. I've found an old one in my files from somewhere, in an odd format, which is labelled as an Academy, but can't remember its provenance, so treat with caution. I have posted it below. Power curve looks about right, but the torque curve looks perhaps a little low. I have dyno prints for several other 7s, when and if you want them. In this format, a couple of 175s, a couple of R500s, and a couple of 150s. In the more normal grpahical format I have a couple of K engines, a couple of X Flow and, I think, a BDA.

 

[JackCY]

You can post it here or personal message it to Ben (graphics) or me (physics)(though the physics wait for v1.0, it's just provisional now). Ben has email in readme if you download the 1700 package, probably the Academy test package as well.

Do you have the corner weights by any chance? It's probably going to be the same or very similar to what I have but if you have them post them, I can check it what the difference is with this Sigma engine. An SV as well, I have R300 weights from SV too, normal R500 and some other. And note if you had the spare wheel on (what size, type, so I can calculate how much to subtract), driver weight if present and how much fuel in tank. Usually it's around 51% empty, 45.5% full tank with 75kg driver.

They always do that with the official specs, they tend to be 10% lower than what the engines will give in reality otherwise people get angry when they buy a car new and check it on a dyno. 140 spec. giving 155 bhp with a better air filter is quite normal IMHO. Yeah send it to me in Private Message, click on profile then there should be some option to send private message and either upload images via RD or upload them zipped/archived to say openload.co, name each picture/file with what it's supposed to be for example R500_Duratec_2.0_no_mods.png.

The above picture doesn't seem like a modern Sigma, but I've found a similar less abrupt though dyno of the Ti-VCT, I think Caterham tunes them differently to peak higher and rev, where as the ones found in Ford cars are pure road like good low and mid range torque but not much there up top, 2-4k plenty torque, then it goes down and dies at 6k rpm even more. A 2015 Academy has 6800rpm redline. And from French's videos it redlines still at 6800rpm for 2017 Academy. And they rev it all the way up, your previous Sigma dyno seems fine.

 

[Enterada]

Corner weights for my SV, all in kgs: LF 137.5, RF 156.0, LR 186.0, RR 204.0, Total 683.5. Weights include spare wheel (guess around 11kg), me (87kg). Also on board 2kg drinking water in a camel back situated behind driver's seat, 60% fuel. In the boot: half hood, full hood, side screens, wheel jack, tool bag, totaling 14.2 kg (just weighed them) in the boot.

Wheels are 15" running 8" Avon CR500 195/45 R15 all round, including spare.

I have suspension set ups for my car in Fast Road set up, and the Caterham recommended default track set up, if you want them.

You mention R500. Here's a dyno for one, if useful.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

You're the Caterham wiki in person hehe
Is good to have people around sharing all these knowledge, as a fan of this mod thanks!

 

[JackCY]

Yes send it to me or post it here what you have for the setup, I have a few but there is never too much data even if not used I will save it as reference for when it could be used. I will then go over all the posts again on latest pages and copy it all down at once. The weights are good I can work with that, do all the compensations and add it to my "database". Much appreciated.

 

[Enterada]

Sorry for delay. Been a bit occupied. Here goes.

Caterham Fast Road setup from th motorsport developments company I use for my own setup. I use the same setting for track days, which are intended to practice her road limits (including spare wheel and tools), rather than her ultimate track performance.

Front: Symetrical
Camber: (acceptable range -1° 00' to -2° 30') -1° 40'
Caster: (acceptable range 5° 30' to 3deg 30') 5° 20'
Toe: (acceptable range 0° 03' to 0° 08') 0° 04'

Rear: Symetrical
Camber: (acceptable range -1° 10' to -1° 50') -1° 40'
Toe: (acceptable range 0° 04' to 0° 11') 0° 07'

Caterham track setup, taken from my notes of the recommended by Caterham Technical Development manager on a Get To Know Your Seven day at their showroom, service and set-up preparation facility.
Camber: -2° 30' (maximum -3° 00' for road use)
Toe: Parallel (0° 00') or Toe out. 0° 10' to 0° 20' Toe out is OK for most (Tech Dev Manager runs his own at 0° 30' Toe out). "Silverstone is a 'Power' circuit, so run parallel."
Caster = dynamic camber. More caster = stiffer steering.

Hope the above is of some value. If you need more of anything, let me know.

But I must say that that back end definitely looks too wide, as is the width of the bonnet. The bonnet louvres also look a little narrow, but all this is detail. Its a great rendition.

P.S. I did try emailing Ben O'Bro, but received no response.

 

[Ben O'Bro]

P.S. I did try emailing Ben O'Bro, but received no response.

which email did you use ?
no response cause i never got anything

 

[Enterada]

which email did you use ?
no response cause i never got anything

I followed what links I could from here and emailed you at your phot website.

Afraid I don't have a 1700 K dyno readout, only 1400 K, 1600 K and 1800 K.

P.S. I've tried including a JPEG of the car, but just get an error message. "The uploaded file does not have an allowed extension." Never had this problem with the dyno printouts. What am I doing wrong?