Bruno Senna

[Chris Cronshaw]

So give him a race-by-race contract. It kept McLaren in line in 1993.

True although ultimately they still lost Ayrton anyway.

Hulkenberg would have been the ideal candidate to take Williams forward and stupidly they let him go.

All in all though I really hope Senna gets a decent drive I think he's good enough for a midfield team.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

So Barrichello has scored 75% more points than Maldonado. That is a massive deficit to your team mate on who apparently is the only person comparable too.

By your logic Lewis Hamilton has been better than Jenson Button this season out qualifying him 13-6 and having
Average Qualifying Position
Hamilton - 3.42
Button - 4.63

But of course this is ludicrous talk as we all know in race trim Button was a class apart from Hamilton this season.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, but imo Maldonado has not done anything to warrant keeping his seat this season. Nor has Barrichello for that matter, he just seemed to be going through the motions until he realised his seat was in jeopardy.

Yea as you can see Hamilton is the quicker driver. Just because the Hamilton has had the worst year in his career and this year being the only time in his whole career that he has been beaten by his teammate does not make him a bad driver.

Same goes for Maldonado. What you don´t consider is the car that Barrichello and Maldonado had to drive this year.
It was one of the worst cars in the history of Williams. Not exactly easy for a rookie to simply jump in and start dominating.

Could you explain when Barrichello realised that his seat was in jeopardy? And what he did to improve after that seeing as the 4 points he collected was in the first half of the season...

To me it sounds like you think Barrichello and Maldonado should be sitting on pole and outclass Vettel and the boys.
But reality does not work that way. You do what you can with the car.

 

[Chris Cronshaw]

How can you say Hamilton was the quicker driver. Over one lap yes, but full race distance not a chance.

The Williams car was better at the start of the year. Just because Rubens didn't score points in the 2nd half of the season is irrelevant. He outperformed the car when it was at it's worse scoring some good finishes beyond what the car was capable of.

And no I don't think they should be up there, But I also don't think they performed to their best, despite the cars poor performance.

Look at Kovalainen for example, we all know the car is rubbish, but his performances in it have made people take note of his ability. the same can't be said for Maldonado or Barrichello in a poor Williams.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Show me the numbers that suggest Button was quicker in a race they both finished.

remember the great drive Button did at Canada? Remember that he had a pace that was unreal at the latter part of the race?

I hope you also remember that Hamilton was way quicker then him in the race until they collided.

No the car was crap the whole season unfortunately. The fact that he did not score points in the second half actually is relevant because it was an answer to your remark on Barrichello finding out his seat was at risk. A question you never answered.

"He outperformed the car when it was at it's worse scoring some good finishes beyond what the car was capable of."

Haha this is impossible to do, it doesn´t matter what your name is. You can´t out perform a car, it´s impossible. In this universe atleast.

Yea Kovalainen has a terrific year and has driven well. But that does not change the fact that Maldonado is a rookie.
His abilities was never questioned, that´s why he has driven for big teams like Renault and Mclaren.
He chose to go to Lotus but could have gotten a better seat if he wanted to.

Drivers have good and bad years, Kova and Hammy are great examples of that. Considering this was Maldonados first ever year racing in F1 i´d say he´s done a good job. You have to set the bar at a certain height for a rookie and just pace wise he is as quick if not quicker then Barrichello.

 

[Chris Cronshaw]

Haha this is impossible to do, it doesn´t matter what your name is. You can´t out perform a car, it´s impossible. In this universe atleast.

It's a turn of phrase it's not supposed to be taken literally. I.e Alonso outperformed his Minardi, Senna outperformed his 93 McLaren and so on.

And I still do not agree that Maldonado has done enough to warrant keep his seat, hence the reason I said 4 or 5 posts ago we will have to agree to disagree.

Nothing you can say will convince me Maldonado should be on the grid so please for the love of God stop trying.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Ok, let´s flip the coin here then. What, according to you is the result Maldonado should produce as a rookie?
I´m not trying to convince you, i just don´t understand the logic behind your opinion.

 

[Chris Jenkins]

Hang on guys, you're both entitled to your opinions so stop trying to shoot eachother down.

Maldonaldo did an OK job, but at the end of the day, it's Sundays that count, not Saturdays.

DiResta should be used as an example of what rookies should be achieving.
Give Maldonaldo DiResta's car and I don't think he would've done as well.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Sure Di Resta did a good job, but he was also many points away from his teammate.
Maldo was 3 points away from his teammate, Di Resta 15 points but it´s ok because he´s just a rookie.

 

[James Chant]

But the percentage difference is huge.

Di Resta scored more points by some way than Maldonado. 27 vs 1!

27 points to team mates 43 is 64%.

1 points to team mates 4 is 25%.

You can't say Maldonado is closer to his team mate than DiResta when the score in question is so negligible.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

i think you can in a way considering the force india was capable of scoring points regurarily(?)

So essentially Maldo could finish ahead of Barrichello 15 times but it would not be taken into consideration since there was no points to get that low thus his results compared to his team mate would go un noticed.

 

[James Chant]

I see your point, however points is what its about.

Di Resta certainly was the best newcomer this year.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

i agree Di Resta was without a doubt the best rookie in the field.

 

[Michael Brown]

I agree that Senna needs a proper chance, and I hope he gets that Sauber spot if it ever becomes available. For next year, HRT seems out of the question (they'll probably get Algy anyways) and Williams is unlikely as long as Sutil is also competing for the seat. But for 2013 he might get that Williams seat if Maldonado doesn't impress or his money is illegal.

Hamilton has better qualifying and race pace than Button. In the few races where Button or Hamilton don't get into any trouble, Hamilton beats Button.

 

[Luke McVicar]

Qualifying means more when you have no experience because it shows potential, give in that, Maldonado has more potential then barrichello.

Button scored more points then Hamilton this year, but i still think given both on form Hamilton is still the better driver.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

The only areas where i see Button having edge on Hamilton is in quick decisions/strategy and in taking care of his tires so he still have some life in them at the end of a stint.

Hamilton is quicker no matter what conditions it is but especially in the rain. He's almost in a class of his own there.
Button even said himself how impressed he was with Haimlton going fast despite the fact the car was crap in that particular weekend.

And Alonso is somewhere inbetween. I have huge respect for him, he's just so complete as a driver and it's quite remarkable that he would have won the championship had it not been for Ferraris silly mistake in 2010.

His two magic starts this season was absolutely sensational and in Abu Dahbi first sneaks up on Webber then hunts down Button and keeps the pace with Hamilton, in an inferior car really even though it did handle ok in races.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Decided to do my own little calculation in how good the rookies Maldonado and Di Resta did against their teammate.

What i did was to give out as many points as the position they end the race in, so if you win a race you get 1 point. you come 19th you get 19 points etc.
So the lower the points you have the better it is.
This also in a way takes into account how well you have qualified as it´s easier to get a better position at the end if you qualified higher up in the grid.

I also only counted races where both guys made it through the race.

Maldonado vs Barrichello
158p vs 153p so that means over the season, Barrichello was the one that had the edge by 5 positions over the whole season.

Di Resta vs Sutil
175p vs 157p, a 18 point (or position) gap between the drivers. Sutil the better driver over the season.

Perez vs Kobayashi
142 vs 135p, a 7 point deficit between them.

So by this you can make a claim and say that Maldonado has done the best job at matching his teammate.
Another note is that if Hamilton had not crashed into Maldo he would have gotten 6 points from the Monaco race.

Should be noted that Maldo had quite alot of DNF´s but we don´t know how the results would have looked if they managed to complete all of the races. Di Resta and Sutil had one or two as well and Perez was gone for 2 races while Koba messed up one or to times on the first lap.

 

[Chris Cronshaw]

It's a nice system but it is flawed.

For example.
Di Resta was going wheel to wheel week in week out with Torro Rosso, Sauber, Renault and on odd occasion Mercedes.

The williams cars were going wheel to wheel with their self for the most part, and on odd occasion Lotus.

So there is true scope.

the reason i see Maldonado as not deserving his seat is because. (granted Monaco was a good drive but we all expected him to do well there he's abit of a master of it.) He never seemed to show that cutting edge. He was almost as if he was going through the motions, there was never anything remarkable from him.
Now compare that to Hulkenberg the previous season.
Yes it was a better car but he regularly kept Barrichello on his toes. Barrichello had a lack lustre season and I don't think he ever felt the pressure of Maldonado the same way as the other rookies exerted it on their tema mates.

Paul Di Resta is a great example of that.
Even Daniel Riciardo applied pressure on his more experienced team mate and that car is and was the dog of the field.
I'm not syaing he doesn't deserve a seat in F1.I just feel that maybe he should be in lesser car. having said that you can't get much worse than Williams at the moment. But I think you get my point.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

It's a nice system but it is flawed.

For example.
Di Resta was going wheel to wheel week in week out with Torro Rosso, Sauber, Renault and on odd occasion Mercedes.

The williams cars were going wheel to wheel with their self for the most part, and on odd occasion Lotus.

So there is true scope.

the reason i see Maldonado as not deserving his seat is because. (granted Monaco was a good drive but we all expected him to do well there he's abit of a master of it.) He never seemed to show that cutting edge. He was almost as if he was going through the motions, there was never anything remarkable from him.
Now compare that to Hulkenberg the previous season.
Yes it was a better car but he regularly kept Barrichello on his toes. Barrichello had a lack lustre season and I don't think he ever felt the pressure of Maldonado the same way as the other rookies exerted it on their tema mates.

Paul Di Resta is a great example of that.
Even Daniel Riciardo applied pressure on his more experienced team mate and that car is and was the dog of the field.
I'm not syaing he doesn't deserve a seat in F1.I just feel that maybe he should be in lesser car. having said that you can't get much worse than Williams at the moment. But I think you get my point.

But the thing is that you are still racing against your teammate, no matter where you are on the grid.
That is really what it comes down to at the end of the day. the speed of the car or where on the grid you start is not as important as beating your own teammate.

They weren´t always running for themselves, like China where Williams ended up ahead of STR, Force India, and Lotus.
At Turkey Barrichello was ahead of Jamie.
At Spain Maldonado was ahead of Jamie.
At Monaco Barrichello was ahead of Buemi, Rosberg, Di Resta and had Maldonado not been in trouble with Hamilton he would probably have ended up 7th ahead of Sutil and Heidfeld.

In Canada Rubens was ahead of Buemi and Rosberg.
In Europe Rubens was ahead of Buemi, Di Resta, Petrov, Kobayashi and Schumacher.
In Britain both Williams drivers was ahead of Di Resta.
In Germany Maldo was ahead of Buemi.
Hungary we saw Rubens finish ahead of Sutil and Perez.
In Belgium we saw Maldo finish ahead of Di Resta, Kobayashi and Senna.

Singapore Maldo was ahead of Buemi, Kobayashi, Senna while Rubens was ahead of Koba and Senna.
Japan Maldo finished ahead of Jamie and Senna.
In Korea Rubens was ahead of Senna, Koba, Perez
Abu Dhabi Rubens was ahead of Jamie, Petrov and Senna, Maldo ahead of Jamie and Senna.
In Brazil we saw Rubens finish higher then Schumacher.

so the idea that Williams mostly ran by themselves between the backmarkers and middlemarkers for most of the time i find very hard to believe.

As far as Hulkenberg goes and keeping Barrichello on his toes... He finished 25 points further back.
As far as qualifying goes Barrichello had the advantage of having the average gap of -0.140 seconds to Hulkenberg.
So in terms of Qualifying, Maldonado has done a better job at keeping up with Barrichello then what Hulkenberg did. Maldo actually beat Barrichello in Qualifying pace wise.
And had he not been crashed out in Monaco he would have finished ahead of Barrichello in the standings.

If none of that is impressive for a rookie i don´t know what is to be honest.

Should i continue?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I think a team that fits more in your description of mostly driving alone is Team Lotus now known as Caterham F1.

They were a step up compared to the two other teams but not quite the pace to challenge the established teams.

 

[David Jundt]

If Perez leaves Sauber for Ferrari (assuming they dump Massa), then Sauber will have a choice of Massa or Senna. I'm inclined to think they will pick Senna - he has money, potential, and Massa is nowhere near as good as he was in 2008. Plus, Sauber has developed a reputation for being great at developing rookies (remember Raikkonen?), so this would be the perfect place for him to settle down until a larger team snatches him (McLaren if Hamilton gets fed up?).

He's 28 now, if he's going to get anywhere in F1 he needs to get a move on, and refuse to settle for pointless 3rd driver roles.
End of rant.

Erm... LOL? Quite contradicting, eh?

And no thanks, Sauber has young drivers like Gutierrez and Leimer, they don't need these two (old) Brazilians. We're NOT Ferrari's driver parking slot anymore!

Btw: I don't rate Senna much higher than Maldonado anyway. People tend to just look at his money.

Senna has also taken it's time to advance from GP2, no?