Better FFB physics in new updates.

[Msportdan]

Ive read a few times, that the new cars the gr5 and gtr2 have new physics which improved the FFb and physics. Does this get rid of the over forced centre and the swaying you get from it?

I will not buy them not knowing if this is fixed.

 

[Matej Lakota]

Yeah, I don˙t know when I set it to this value, but it works for me, I guess

Just leave your as you are used to it

 

[Rikki88]

...

 

[Matej Lakota]

I don´t know when and why "somebody" set it to 411, because I never do a science out of it ... maybe some gremlins around . I changed it now to 540 and it is much better feeling.

 

[Esox71]

Thought maybe the update(game) changed DOR for you dependent on car driven if kept @900

 

[Matej Lakota]

I don´t know, but that is ok, because who knows how long I haven˙t even noticed until now

 

[Msportdan]

Sure, but you can argue about how much loss of force you need to feel the car understeering.
I found 50-60% to be enough. Again, its personal preference. If you like 100% keep it that way.

Just because you have the option, doesnt mean you need to change something.
But if people disagree with our approach of the default profiles, at least they can change them.

Believe it or not, but there are a million different opinions about how the FFB should feel.
And there is no absolute correct answer. Starting with the fact, that in a real car you dont feel "everything the car is doing" through the wheel only.

Sorry I don't believe in the whole... personal preference thing with FFB. At the end of the day when we drive a real life car , do we get to choose what forces we do and don't feel before we drive off .....?

..no we don't.

The sim should govern the FFB along with the physics that play a part in that sim. A good example of a sim doing this is RF2. Has two options strength and Smoothing. The FFB is what the engine gives out, theres no constant messing with those. This is how it is and its probably the most realistic FFB (give or take a few duff cars cough F2 cough) a sim can produce, again the same can be said with GSC. Its just funny that the two top ffb produced within a sim are these which have no tweaking options at all!!.

A multitude of FFB settings, values and sliders is imo a cop out by the dev, because im sure themselves cant get a decent feel out of their engine either.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Sorry I don't believe in the whole... personal preference thing with FFB. At the end of the day when we drive a real life car , do we get to choose what forces we do and don't feel before we drive off .....?

..no we don't.

The sim should govern the FFB along with the physics that play a part in that sim. A good example of a sim doing this is RF2. Has two options strength and Smoothing. The FFB is what the engine gives out, theres no constant messing with those. This is how it is and its probably the most realistic FFB (give or take a few duff cars cough F2 cough) a sim can produce, again the same can be said with GSC. Its just funny that the two top ffb produced within a sim are these which have no tweaking options at all!!.

A multitude of FFB settings, values and sliders is imo a cop out by the dev, because im sure themselves cant get a decent feel out of their engine either.

The problem with this logic is that a FFB wheel is not just simply translating the things you would feel in a real car wheel, it's giving you a lot of other forces to try compensate for the fact that you are completely without the "seat of the pants" feel of the car, aka you cannot feel G forces being applied to your body. This is where personal preference comes in, we all can have different opinions on which of these "fake" forces we want to feel in the wheel.

 

[Sean Kenney]

Sorry I don't believe in the whole... personal preference thing with FFB. At the end of the day when we drive a real life car , do we get to choose what forces we do and don't feel before we drive off .....?

..no we don't.

The sim should govern the FFB along with the physics that play a part in that sim. A good example of a sim doing this is RF2. Has two options strength and Smoothing. The FFB is what the engine gives out, theres no constant messing with those. This is how it is and its probably the most realistic FFB (give or take a few duff cars cough F2 cough) a sim can produce, again the same can be said with GSC. Its just funny that the two top ffb produced within a sim are these which have no tweaking options at all!!.

A multitude of FFB settings, values and sliders is imo a cop out by the dev, because im sure themselves cant get a decent feel out of their engine either.

That's borderline insane Dan lol

 

[Esox71]

Obviously they must try to replicate what a driver feels through their body also into FFB.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

The sim should govern the FFB along with the physics that play a part in that sim. A good example of a sim doing this is RF2. Has two options strength and Smoothing. The FFB is what the engine gives out, theres no constant messing with those. This is how it is and its probably the most realistic FFB (give or take a few duff cars cough F2 cough) a sim can produce, again the same can be said with GSC. Its just funny that the two top ffb produced within a sim are these which have no tweaking options at all!!.

Oh, I forgot to answer this part...
rF2 is indeed a good example, but not for the reason you mention, for the reason that it has too few options available to the user. One of the (many) reasons I don't drive rF2 is exactly this, I can't adjust the FFB to my liking, when I've got a decently strong feeling from weight transfer and grip, the feeling of curbs and bumps are so overly strong and aggressive I'm afraid I'll wake the dead with the noise from my wheel, and there's no way I can tweak these independently.
Same goes for GSCE, I really don't enjoy the FFB in that game any longer, I did with my old, weak and sloppy wheel, then it felt awesome, now with my current wheel it's just messy and noisy to me.

There's a reason why people made the RealFeel FFB tweaks for rFactor back in the day, the very tweak that GSCE is based upon (but with their own settings).
FFB is indeed a individual preference, and not only that, different wheels (DFGT to G2x to Tx00 to CSW to DirectDrive wheels) all respond differently to the FFB output from games, so there really is no such thing as a "one size fits all" FFB.

 

[Jake Fangio]

Oh, I forgot to answer this part...
rF2 is indeed a good example, but not for the reason you mention, for the reason that it has too few options available to the user. One of the (many) reasons I don't drive rF2 is exactly this, I can't adjust the FFB to my liking, when I've got a decently strong feeling from weight transfer and grip, the feeling of curbs and bumps are so overly strong and aggressive I'm afraid I'll wake the dead with the noise from my wheel, and there's no way I can tweak these independently.
Same goes for GSCE, I really don't enjoy the FFB in that game any longer, I did with my old, weak and sloppy wheel, then it felt awesome, now with my current wheel it's just messy and noisy to me.

There's a reason why people made the RealFeel FFB tweaks for rFactor back in the day, the very tweak that GSCE is based upon (but with their own settings).
FFB is indeed a individual preference, and not only that, different wheels (DFGT to G2x to Tx00 to CSW to DirectDrive wheels) all respond differently to the FFB output from games, so there really is no such thing as a "one size fits all" FFB.

I'm sure you can tweak the real feel settings in GSCE mate

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I'm sure you can tweak the real feel settings in GSCE mate

I'm sure you can, it's just that instead of having to muck about editing conf files to try make GSCE feel better I can simply boot up another game that I like better and tweak the settings using the ingame GUI. I might be lazy like that, but there's nothing about GSCE which is attractive enough for me to warrant me spending hours digging around text files.

 

[Jake Fangio]

I'm sure you can, it's just that instead of having to muck about editing conf files to try make GSCE feel better I can simply boot up another game that I like better and tweak the settings using the ingame GUI. I might be lazy like that, but there's nothing about GSCE which is attractive enough for me to warrant me spending hours digging around text files.

Fair comment

 

[Rikki88]

...

 

[Msportdan]

guy guys guys.....

what im trying to say that the FFB should generally be from the physics. The devs should output therefore one type of ffb, from the engine. I understand how different wheels react differently, hence why there should be strength and smoothing. But to have totally different types of FFB from one physics is beyond me.

WHen you sit in your car do you change the feeling of the ffb through the wheel.

no..

the cars governs that and in some cases if your in comfort mode or sport.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

guy guys guys.....

what im trying to say that the FFB should generally be from the physics. The devs should output therefore one type of ffb, from the engine. I understand how different wheels react differently, hence why there should be strength and smoothing. But to have totally different types of FFB from one physics is beyond me.

WHen you sit in your car do you change the feeling of the ffb through the wheel.

no..

the cars governs that and in some cases if your in comfort mode or sport.

Either you are not reading my posts or you are not understanding them.

 

[Msportdan]

nah I simply don't agree. Do you get in your car and adjust loads of option to make the feel through your wheel more to match your preference??

nope you don't. You have no choice.

and that's what sims should be like.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I'm done wasting time on trying to politely discuss with you, you clearly don't even want to understand, you just want to be right, there must be something wrong with the game, it can't be you...
So much for wanting help...

 

[ouvert]

nah I simply don't agree. Do you get in your car and adjust loads of option to make the feel through your wheel more to match your preference??

nope you don't. You have no choice.

and that's what sims should be like.

in sims you (devs) are trying to use the similar input (physics in game vs reality) with extremely different output (FFB steering wheel vs reality).. so having having "pure FFB" or whatever you wanna call it doesn`t necessary have to be the right way ... even in terms of "real feel" of driving ... not mentioning you feel very low through wheel in real car .. that is why pretty much every sim uses exaggerated and added forces and all those options (whether they are hidden and preset by devs or accesible via ingame settings or config files)

 

[James Cook]

nah I simply don't agree. Do you get in your car and adjust loads of option to make the feel through your wheel more to match your preference??

nope you don't. You have no choice.

and that's what sims should be like.

Except in a real car you feel forces more through your body than the wheel. FFB has to try and convey both those aspects through the wheel alone and that's a difficult ask when you factor in all the different wheels on the market and the subjective nature of the issue.

I appreciate both sides of the argument. Personally I really like the simplicity of FFB settings in rFactor 2 and Stock Car Extreme mainly because I enjoy the FFB in both of those sims, but for someone who doesn't like it so much there is no (easy) way to change the FFB to your liking. At least R3E does offer the player the opportunity to get FFB that feels good to them and I suppose it's difficult to argue against that approach.

There are a couple of quirks with R3E's FFB that I'm not 100% happy with and I for one would like to feel more steering rack forces but in the end the FFB is pretty good when you get the settings right. It's just the journey there is frustrating, tedious, iterative and too time consuming. I feel R3E could definitely use some kind of FFB calibration tool to make things easier.