Best DD Capable Cockpit in $800 or less Range?

[Rainman2020]

After having been bitten hard by the sim racing bug, i am building a computer + sim gear + VR in the $5K range at the moment. I will post the entire build on this site and ask for yall's critique when i finish picking all the pieces. I am finding this by far the best forum for sim racers (haven't checked out the iRacing forums yet though). I am in the USA (Dallas Tex-has)

The single component i am the most lost as to what to get is the cockpit itself.

I don't have a huge space to put the rig into. I plan to use VR exclusively, so i don't need space for a 3 monitor setup. I have 2 regular monitors on my computer desk, but the computer desk is 6 feet from where the cockpit will be. I figure i can still have a mouse/keyboard next to the cockpit if i get a 2nd wireless mouse/keyboard just for the cockpit. I may need to get a single (3rd) monitor just for the cockpit to have something right there that is other than VR. Can you live exclusively with VR and have the normal computer monitors 6 feet away?

Buying the following components in my current sim racing build:

Wheel = Accuforce V2 DD wheel ('only' 13nm), so need the cockpit to be sturdy enough to handle it.

Shifter = Fantatec H pattern shifter, and need a gearshift plate that is stable and doesn't move around easily (have seen many cockpits where that happens in youtube videos)

Pedals = CSL Elite with LC

As to the actual cockpit, it needs to be sturdy enough for the DD wheel, and with a sturdy shifter plate, AND it needs to be inexpensive as possible, as my budget is nearing max. Wanting the cockpit to meet the above AND be less than $800 total for the cockpit and and racing seat (if need to order one separately). I found a Summit Racing seat for $180 that looked really nice if i had to buy a separate seat, so i could get a seat for less than $200 USD.

Oh, AND it needs to be actually available to order (although i could live with several months+ of waiting for delivery if need be)

Tall order?

Note that i am working with Jeff Ford (FEG) and he mentioned the Sim-Lab GT1 Evo cockpit. It looks like you can get one without too long of a delay (although don't want to think about shipping cost from Europe right now), and if i got a seat from Summit Racing for $190, it would come close to the max limit of $800, would prolly go over it once you add in a single monitor attachment and a shifter plate attachment. But, can the Sim-Lab GT1 Evo cockpit support the Accuforce DD wheel and have a stable shifter plate?

Thanks, you guys are great, i really appreciate the help as i jump in the sim racing world.

Randy

 

[Rainman2020]

Be aware that if you upgrade to DD later, you'll want to use the DD add on that uses aluminum profile and not the included wheel mount for GT1 Evo. Barry showed that it flexes with the Accuforce V2.

Other than that, I like the GT1 Evo a lot.
My issue with the TR1 Redline:
Because it only has two 60 degree uprights, it has less ability to be expanded with keyboard tray, mouse tray or other standard 8020 parts to add more functions to the rig it didn't originally have. Sim Lab does sell an angle bracket but it's more trouble than it's worth IMO.

Because of its smaller width, less 90 degree stability enforced pieces and lower weight, the rig experiences flex under higher force feedback. I don't think it could handle a stronger DD wheel than the Accuforce to be honest.

GT1 Evo though is solid. Best bang for buck from Sim Lab and you won't be disappointed.

Note that in that review you posted on the Redline TR1 it DOES show that it can handle the force feedback from the Accuforce just as well as the Evo does. I don't plan on adding mouse and keyboard trays, etc, just a shifter arm mount and an extra reinforcement brace (vertical) for the shifter arm. The Redline TR1 does come with a shifter arm that deals with the 60 degree post and then if you added a vertical post attached to the shifter arm, i am sure the shifter would be stable on the Redline.
Still though, the Evo is better, but also out of stock in many places, and i like the form factor more on the Redline TR1, assuming it can fully handle the Accuforce DD wheel as the review said it can.

I can live with either i think, but the Evo is likely the better choice

I am not even looking at anything but Simlab at this point

Randy

 

[Rainman2020]

I don't have any advice but laugh like I'm 14 yrs old whenever I see 'Best DD Capable Cock...' as the thread tagline as it's abbreviated to in the list header on my machine

 

[Rainman2020]

Be aware that if you upgrade to DD later, you'll want to use the DD add on that uses aluminum profile and not the included wheel mount for GT1 Evo. Barry showed that it flexes with the Accuforce V2.

Other than that, I like the GT1 Evo a lot.
My issue with the TR1 Redline:
Because it only has two 60 degree uprights, it has less ability to be expanded with keyboard tray, mouse tray or other standard 8020 parts to add more functions to the rig it didn't originally have. Sim Lab does sell an angle bracket but it's more trouble than it's worth IMO.

Because of its smaller width, less 90 degree stability enforced pieces and lower weight, the rig experiences flex under higher force feedback. I don't think it could handle a stronger DD wheel than the Accuforce to be honest.

GT1 Evo though is solid. Best bang for buck from Sim Lab and you won't be disappointed.

Ted, not sure what you mean with your comment of:

' Be aware that if you upgrade to DD later, you'll want to use the DD add on that uses aluminum profile and not the included wheel mount for GT1 Evo. Barry showed that it flexes with the Accuforce V2.'

Are you saying that i need to order a different wheel mount than what comes standard with the Evo? I will be using the Accuforce V2 wheel, so will be using a DD wheel.

Randy

 

[fwyflyer]

First, I respect your thought process so I encourage you to follow your heart in terms of the choice. However, your choice should also consider placement of the monitors, keyboard and mouse.

Putting the monitor(s) on the far wall is a very bad idea in my opinion. I much prefer placing a 34" ultrawide monitor 8-14 inches behind the steering wheel to simulate looking through a windshield. Alternatively, will you be using a VR solution like the Oculus Rift S so that monitor placement no longer becomes an issue? I think a single monitor and an Oculus or similarly specced device are the way to go so that I can take advantage of VR titles when available or the Monitor when no VR is available.

Likewise, I think you need to consider Motion...even if you are not ready to purchase it. The added immersion supplied by Motion and VR are extremely enticing. Try to find someone nearby to test a VR/motion setup as it may radically effect most of your choices especially when it comes to weight.

And, finally, a minor nitpick... As the owner of a GTTrack and NLR v3 Motion Platform, I can assure you that neither of them is in any way flimsy. Only the rather comfortable tilting seat has any significant
flex but the cockpit itself is quite stiff and very well thought out.

Regardless of the above, keep it up, persevere, and join us in the ever changing world of sim racing.

 

[Rainman2020]

First, I respect your thought process so I encourage you to follow your heart in terms of the choice. However, your choice should also consider placement of the monitors, keyboard and mouse.

Putting the monitor(s) on the far wall is a very bad idea in my opinion. I much prefer placing a 34" ultrawide monitor 8-14 inches behind the steering wheel to simulate looking through a windshield. Alternatively, will you be using a VR solution like the Oculus Rift S so that monitor placement no longer becomes an issue? I think a single monitor and an Oculus or similarly specced device are the way to go so that I can take advantage of VR titles when available or the Monitor when no VR is available.

Likewise, I think you need to consider Motion...even if you are not ready to purchase it. The added immersion supplied by Motion and VR are extremely enticing. Try to find someone nearby to test a VR/motion setup as it may radically effect most of your choices especially when it comes to weight.

And, finally, a minor nitpick... As the owner of a GTTrack and NLR v3 Motion Platform, I can assure you that neither of them is in any way flimsy. Only the rather comfortable tilting seat has any significant
flex but the cockpit itself is quite stiff and very well thought out.

Regardless of the above, keep it up, persevere, and join us in the ever changing world of sim racing.

I am going to try and go full VR as a starting point (assuming i can get my 'VR legs'). I was going to also get a new monitor for the sim rig itself, but decided i would rather see if i can save the money (about $600 extra for the 32 inch gaming monitor plus stand) since my initial outlay is around $5000 for everything all at once (totally new computer for 2K, new gaming monitor for my computer desk (for other games and sim racing setup/replay), VR headset, cockpit, DD wheel, V3 pedals, Fantatec shifter, gee, did i forget anything?

Adds up quick when doing it all at once if you want to start out with very nice sweet spot equipment and computer setup!

On the GTTrack, it looked sturdy in the youtube reviews, but at $900, i can get an Simlab kit with shifter and everything, and i think that is a better kit. If it takes a few months, so what, i am waiting until September for the Accuforce wheel anyways. I really liked the packaging and the instructions with the NLR stuff though, very nice especially vs the zero instructions almost from Simlab. If it was not for Barry's video, i would not feel comfortable with ordering an EVO due to the crappy instructions that they have. Thanks Barry again!

Also, on the GTTrack, the shifter looked a little woobly/shaky. I really am wanting a shifter that doesn't move around. What is your experience with that on the GTTrack? Also, the GTTrack looked kinda like Logitech generic flimsy in the pedal plate and adjustment bolts, shifter plate, etc as compared to the Evo, at least that is how it appeared to me in the youtube video. Looked very sturdy at the same time with a DD wheel on it, and it would be nice to just deal with Microcenter locally as my chassis point of contact. Not sure that would be of any long term help though if i started having any issues with the NLR cockpit.

Randy

 

[TedBrosby-]

Ted, not sure what you mean with your comment of:

' Be aware that if you upgrade to DD later, you'll want to use the DD add on that uses aluminum profile and not the included wheel mount for GT1 Evo. Barry showed that it flexes with the Accuforce V2.'

Are you saying that i need to order a different wheel mount than what comes standard with the Evo? I will be using the Accuforce V2 wheel, so will be using a DD wheel.

Randy

Did you watch Barry's video? He uses the Accuforce V2 on the GT1 Evo because the mounting holes of the wheel deck they include don't work for SC1 or SC2 or any MIGE mounting holes.
And he shows that there's vertical flex when he pulls down on the Accuforce V2 because the GT1 Evo wheel deck is a cantilever arm.

Please watch with the time stamp I send:

 

[Rainman2020]

Did you watch Barry's video? He uses the Accuforce V2 on the GT1 Evo because the mounting holes of the wheel deck they include don't work for SC1 or SC2 or any MIGE mounting holes.
And he shows that there's vertical flex when he pulls down on the Accuforce V2 because the GT1 Evo wheel deck is a cantilever arm.

Please watch with the time stamp I send:

Ted

You said ' you'll want to use the DD add on that uses aluminum profile and not the included wheel mount for GT1 Evo '

What exactly is 'the DD add on that use aluminum profile' that's not included in the Evo package? How do i ask for it from Simlab?

Thanks
Randy

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Did you watch Barry's video? He uses the Accuforce V2 on the GT1 Evo because the mounting holes of the wheel deck they include don't work for SC1 or SC2 or any MIGE mounting holes.
And he shows that there's vertical flex when he pulls down on the Accuforce V2 because the GT1 Evo wheel deck is a cantilever arm.

Please watch with the time stamp I send:

This bracket is compatible.

Direct Drive wheel mounting bracket - Fixed version

sim-lab.eu

Or you can drill extra holes for more common Mige mount with adjustable angle, which is not needed on this wheeldeck.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

BTW, after watching the video, seems like it's not only wheeldeck but uprights that are moving around. Well, simple design using standard angled brackets, not with DD in mind for sure.
P1-X does not have that problem as using 40 x 120 profile for uprights and custom brackets.
Sure you don't want to upgrade your rig choice?

 

[fwyflyer]

Also, on the GTTrack, the shifter looked a little woobly/shaky. I really am wanting a shifter that doesn't move around. What is your experience with that on the GTTrack? Also, the GTTrack looked kinda like Logitech generic flimsy in the pedal plate and adjustment bolts, shifter plate, etc as compared to the Evo, at least that is how it appeared to me in the youtube video. Looked very sturdy at the same time with a DD wheel on it, and it would be nice to just deal with Microcenter locally as my chassis point of contact. Not sure that would be of any long term help though if i started having any issues with the NLR cockpit.

The shifter is attached with four bolts to the seat itself. That way the shifter positioning remains constant relative to the seat position as the seat moves over bumps, hills, inclines, etc. From a muscle memory point of view the mount is just fine. It is also plenty wide to mount both a TH8a H-shifter and a fanatec handbrake. If I were to do it over again though, I would probably use a taller sequential shifter in lieu of the H-shifter because the shift to reverse puts my hand right on the edge of the handbrake lever. Note: you can place the shifter mount on either side of the seat. I place mine, consistent with left hand steering, on the right hand side with the H shifter closest to the seat and the handbrake further outward from the seat. As for the pedal plate, it is locked down. Zero flex for me even under hard braking. Now, keep in mind, I am not arguing that you should get the GTTrack, I am just clarifying to note it really is a decent option for DD wheels (especially if you hope like me to ultimately acquire a Traction Plus unit as well... should I ever be able to afford it).

On the other hand, I will definitely admit rigs which use aluminum profile are far more versatile when it comes to adding or removing keyboard trays, mouse trays, shifter mounts, monitor mounts, cup holders, speakers and the like. To me, they just look and feel a bit too industrial for the living room.

 

[Rainman2020]

The shifter is attached with four bolts to the seat itself. That way the shifter positioning remains constant relative to the seat position as the seat moves over bumps, hills, inclines, etc. From a muscle memory point of view the mount is just fine. It is also plenty wide to mount both a TH8a H-shifter and a fanatec handbrake. If I were to do it over again though, I would probably use a taller sequential shifter in lieu of the H-shifter because the shift to reverse puts my hand right on the edge of the handbrake lever. Note: you can place the shifter mount on either side of the seat. I place mine, consistent with left hand steering, on the right hand side with the H shifter closest to the seat and the handbrake further outward from the seat. As for the pedal plate, it is locked down. Zero flex for me even under hard braking. Now, keep in mind, I am not arguing that you should get the GTTrack, I am just clarifying to note it really is a decent option for DD wheels (especially if you hope like me to ultimately acquire a Traction Plus unit as well... should I ever be able to afford it).

On the other hand, I will definitely admit rigs which use aluminum profile are far more versatile when it comes to adding or removing keyboard trays, mouse trays, shifter mounts, monitor mounts, cup holders, speakers and the like. To me, they just look and feel a bit too industrial for the living room.

Is the shifter for the GTTrack super stable though, i.e. not shaking around at all when you shift? Also, is it in one position only vertically? i.e. if you wanted it lower or higher, is there a way to adjust that? Nice that it tracks the seat position, i like that. I don't want it to 1) have any flex and 2) i want it to be adjustable up down left right to find the right position for me to shift with. I do like the GTTrack in numerous ways, but at $900 + tax, not cheap compared to the Evo, etc and definitely less robust and less ability to adjust things. Much easier to put together though i would guess and likely plenty for the Accuforce DD wheel.

Randy

 

[TedBrosby-]

Ted

You said ' you'll want to use the DD add on that uses aluminum profile and not the included wheel mount for GT1 Evo '

What exactly is 'the DD add on that use aluminum profile' that's not included in the Evo package? How do i ask for it from Simlab?

Thanks
Randy

The bracket @Andrew_WOT listed will allow you to use the SC1/SC2/MIGE based motors, but for stability, something like this will work for GT1 Evo: https://i.redd.it/q36fg1xhuhs41.jpg
In all honesty, I tried to tell you before, P1-X >> TR160 >>>>>>> TR80 > GT1 Evo for Direct Drive.
If you really want the GT1 Evo, you can do something to increase stability by adding triangular bracing.
I think you could use the GT1 Evo as is with the Accuforce, and just add something to increase stability when you get a chance. The GT1 Evo uses standard 8020 aluminum, so you can add pieces from an aluminum distributor no problem, as long as they're also anodized black if you get black and want to match the color.
4x of these: https://8020.net/14017.html (Doesn't have to be this company's, those are a little pricey IMO)
and 2x 8020 40x40 sized extensions mounted as diagonal support (top is mounted to the uprights, bottom is mounted in front of the uprights, close to the pedals).

The disadvantage to my suggestion is: if you can't find those pivot joints cheaper, you'll end up spending almost $100 on the pivot joints and the aluminum profile. At that point, why not just get a better cockpit like the P1-X or TR80/160?

 

[fwyflyer]

Is the shifter for the GTTrack super stable though, i.e. not shaking around at all when you shift? Also, is it in one position only vertically? i.e. if you wanted it lower or higher, is there a way to adjust that? Nice that it tracks the seat position, i like that. I don't want it to 1) have any flex and 2) i want it to be adjustable up down left right to find the right position for me to shift with. I do like the GTTrack in numerous ways, but at $900 + tax, not cheap compared to the Evo, etc and definitely less robust and less ability to adjust things. Much easier to put together though i would guess and likely plenty for the Accuforce DD wheel.

The shifter plate can be moved forward or backward relative to the seat but the plate itself is set at a given height from the seat rail. With the TH8a the height feels very good. I have adjusted the position to where my hand falls on it naturally. Likewise, with the fanatec handbrake lever set vertically the height feels good. I DO sense some flex in the plate caused by grabbing the handbrake which makes sense given the length of the lever arm involved. Note: I find the flex in the plate to be far less than the flex built into the fanatec handbrake itself. But, neither the flex in the plate nor in the handbrake assembly adversely impacts my shifting/handbraking. NLR could improve the product by offering different adapter plates based on your shifter/handbrake choice. What they have provided is nonetheless very versatile. If I had gone with the fanatec h-shift and fanatec handbrake, for instance, it wouldn't have been an issue. And, truthfully, it wouldn't be too hard to make my own adapter plate out of quarter inch aluminum plate.

That said, remember to think about where you are gonna put your monitor, mouse and keyboard. I haven't tried NLR's monitor stand nor their keyboard and mouse stand due to limited availability and cost. The keyboard and mouse stand didn't become available to purchase until several months after I bought the GTTrack. So, I went old school. I stacked milk crates around the rig to support the headphones, oculus rift s, keyboard and mouse. And, I put the keyboard in my lap to type. Likewise, I purchased a height adjustable plastic folding table to straddle the rig just above the Accuforce Base so that I could place my monitor in the perfect position relative to the steering wheel ... and still have a place to keep my speakers, cups, pens, papers, etc.

 

[tapidlittle]

With the current conversion rate (.89), my Sim-Lab P1-X with Fanatec DD base was $678 and shipping to CA another $200, so $878 total.

where did you get that price?

 

[Fennario]

where did you get that price?

From my invoice... sorry $697 converted using today's rate, not $678

 

[Rainman2020]

From my invoice... sorry $697 converted using today's rate, not $678 View attachment 387053

I will take another look at the P1-X reviews. I have a 5x3 space to put the cockpit in (behind my recliners in my digital man-cave) and didn't want something super bulky, so that plus the extra $$$ caused me to not look very hard at it.

Randy

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I will take another look at the P1-X reviews. I have a 5x3 space to put the cockpit in (behind my recliners in my digital man-cave) and didn't want something super bulky, so that plus the extra $$$ caused me to not look very hard at it.

Randy

I am not sure about flex in wheeldeck, but at least uprights can be stabilized with some brackets like these, can be less expensive and more elegant than pivot joints with bracing arms.

40-4355-Black

40 Series 8 Hole - Tee Flat Plate

8020.net

Also make sure to watch video on How To page.

 

[Viper16]

I have a TR80 on order, they are having delivery issues, with COVID and the increase in sales because of COVID. I have been informed through the whole process and delays. I have received 60% of the rig, and am just waiting one more box. The company has stepped up and is direct shipping from their supplier in China, and drop shipping to our locations. This is outstanding and really shows they care.

Meanwhile over at Fanatec, that is a whole other issue. always order components on separate orders.

I have a Accuforce V2 to mount onto this rig, and feel it will be plenty strong, they use steel on the pedal plate and wheel mounts for rigidity.

There have been delays from every simrig component manufacturer...so please be patient.

 

[TedBrosby-]

I am not sure about flex in wheeldeck, but at least uprights can be stabilized with some brackets like these, can be less expensive and more elegant than pivot joints with bracing arms.

40-4355-Black

40 Series 8 Hole - Tee Flat Plate

8020.net

Also make sure to watch video on How To page.

If he uses these, they will affect the width of the rig and the wheel deck might not be wide enough. I wouldn't buy those unless he also gets a pair for the wheel deck.

He can stabilize the GT1 Evo with triangular bracing which won't affect the width of the uprights and will allow him to use the provided wheel deck, which looks like an aesthetically pleasing piece of hardware. Plus it's compatible with the Sim Lab SC2/Mige 3-hole bracket you linked earlier.

I will take another look at the P1-X reviews. I have a 5x3 space to put the cockpit in (behind my recliners in my digital man-cave) and didn't want something super bulky, so that plus the extra $$$ caused me to not look very hard at it.

Randy

Honestly, while I feel that the P1-X is a little bit overpriced, if bulkiness is your main issue, I think you should just buy the P1-X. Don't let the use of 160mm profile discourage you, the rig itself is basically the exact same length as the GT1-Evo and only a few cm wider (and only in one part of the rig, where the uprights are, the rest of the rig front to back is the same width).
The GT1 Evo uses 1350mm length 80x40 profile with 500mm length 80x40 cross braces. 500 + 2(40) = 580.
The P1-X uses the same length but 160x40 for the cross braces and length pieces.
The difference is the P1-X has the uprights on the outside and a 10mm stabilizing plate that @Andrew_WOT linked to you, giving the wheel deck 600mm of width.
So the P1-X effective width at the uprights is 680mm, while the rest of the rig is 580mm, same width as the GT1 Evo.
Is 10cm in only one spot of the rig a deal breaker?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If he uses these, they will affect the width of the rig and the wheel deck might not be wide enough. I wouldn't buy those unless he also gets a pair for the wheel deck.

He can stabilize the GT1 Evo with triangular bracing which won't affect the width of the uprights and will allow him to use the provided wheel deck, which looks like an aesthetically pleasing piece of hardware. Plus it's compatible with the Sim Lab SC2/Mige 3-hole bracket you linked earlier.

Not sure what you mean, they are just bolted outside for reinforcement, uprights stay in the same position.
Video on how they work