Tracks Barcelona (3 Seasons, 4 Layouts, DRS) 2.10

[P*Funk]

What kind of luck is everyone having with the AIW? I'm feeling its got some wonky issues. For one I think that coming out of Turn 3 they don't take the optimal line and actually run through the marbles and I often see them actually fish tail here. They also tend to brake in the middle of high speed corners basically brake checking me constantly, particularly Turn 9 and the final corner of the 2003 layout (forget if they brake check in the modern variant there).

I also found that the cars, and maybe this is a new quality to the AMS AI, seem to surrender their position very easily. There was one lap I remember seeing what almost looked like a car take a defensive line and slow down or something basically like a lapped car giving way in iRacing. Need to do more testing but I wonder if AMS is going to make the AIW makers have to work as hard as Patrick on conversion in some cases.

That said, yea beautiful track Patrick, loving it.

 

[DangerrD]

It seems the difficulty slider does not function on all these tracks. I could not tell any difference between 70 - 120%.
The tracks do look great.

 

[tribolik]

It seems the difficulty slider does not function on all these tracks. I could not tell any difference between 70 - 120%.
The tracks do look great.

It should work regardless... but its probably due to - http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/changing-ai-difficutly-championship.119038/

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

What kind of luck is everyone having with the AIW? I'm feeling its got some wonky issues. For one I think that coming out of Turn 3 they don't take the optimal line and actually run through the marbles and I often see them actually fish tail here. They also tend to brake in the middle of high speed corners basically brake checking me constantly, particularly Turn 9 and the final corner of the 2003 layout (forget if they brake check in the modern variant there).

I also found that the cars, and maybe this is a new quality to the AMS AI, seem to surrender their position very easily. There was one lap I remember seeing what almost looked like a car take a defensive line and slow down or something basically like a lapped car giving way in iRacing. Need to do more testing but I wonder if AMS is going to make the AIW makers have to work as hard as Patrick on conversion in some cases.

That said, yea beautiful track Patrick, loving it.

I dont really handle the AI side. @Gringo put a lot of work on each layout, Perhaps he can help

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

After testing this one, I can't go back to GSCE. Night and day.
Thank you and congratulation Patrick!!
However, I noticed an annoying point: the "tires particles" on the tarmac flicker little bit.
It doesn't happen on original tracks.

Please note :
I only tested this track at 2pm. Maybe it's different later on the afternoon.
All graphic set up at max in game
Anisotropic is set up at x16 and antialliasing at x8 in Nvida
(but I didn't open Nvidia inspector)

Hi

I never noticed what you mention. Will try to reproduce

 

[DangerrD]

Just found out changing difficulty slider once in a session does not work. You have to change it before the session.

 

[P*Funk]

I dont really handle the AI side. @Gringo put a lot of work on each layout, Perhaps he can help

Yea if he's up for some nit picking from me I don't mind giving him feedback.

After playing the modern GP layout I think maybe the AI is pretty good through the modified section without any sudden and jarring braking. Its pretty easy even if you're generally faster than them to follow right on their gearbox and not get brake checked and then use the front straight to pass them. So looks like that section is pretty nicely configured in the AIW. The entirety of the 2003 layout and what it has in common with the modified GP layout has issues throughout in my experience however.

After a good 40 minutes with a full grid in practice on the national unmodified layout with the FV10 and that was some insane racing action from the AI. Have to check some more and spec the AI a bit but maybe the classic parts of the GP layouts need a bit more of whatever got put into that national layout AIW cause that one is great.

 

[Gringo]

Yea if he's up for some nit picking from me I don't mind giving him feedback.

Yes feedback is welcome. However the AI behavior issues are not directly related to the construction of the AIW. When AMS is out of BETA (when the AI is improved) I will revisit and improve the AIW's if possible.

There are two AI problems that I see. First they are not properly estimating the speed at which they can corner (I believe that's why they brake check), Secondly the AI are not following the AI path at slow / medium speeds (causing the AI to climb up on the curbs for example)

 

[Gringo]

I think that coming out of Turn 3 they don't take the optimal line and actually run through the marbles and I often see them actually fish tail here.

That is true. The GP modern version is a more F1 style line where 2003 GP I keep the car more mid track to defend the exit (more of a GT line) I prefer the 2003 GP AIW a bit more too. There were a LOT of marbles added after the GP modern AIW was made and I should go back and improve this.

There is more than one line in this corner, that depends on your entry here. I will look again after AMS is out of BETA.

PS... I should mention that AMS AI (overall performance and race craft) is not equal for each car type... IMO StockV8 is the best followed by F3 (but the F3's cut corners a bit too much).

 

[P*Funk]

First they are not properly estimating the speed at which they can corner (I believe that's why they brake check),

Well in terms of the 2003 layout's issues I think some of it is basically the same as it was in SCE particularly coming out of the final corner. On the national version I feel like with the V10s they're carrying their speed a bit better than the 2003 version. Might just be luck of the draw on what I spectated though.

That is true. The GP modern version is a more F1 style line where 2003 GP I keep the car more mid track to defend the exit (more of a GT line) I prefer the 2003 GP AIW a bit more too. There were a LOT of marbles added after the GP modern AIW was made and I should go back and improve this.

One thing I noticed with the 2003 and pretty sure the Modern one is that corner entry for turns 5, 7 and 9 the AI seems to take it strangely and its very easy to dive bomb them because they're slow going in and leave the inside unprotected. This isn't the case on the national version (excluding 9 obviously, though they take the Nissan chicane way better than turn 9 relatively speaking).

Issue is if I don't dive bomb them I basically end up having to really overbrake cause they're very slow going in. They tend to actually be fine coming out (slow in fast out I guess) but its not very realistic race behavior. Though even if its a faster line for when you're not defending they seem to really slow down way too early but maybe that's the speed carrying issue you mentioned though it was definitely like that in SCE for those corners too in the FExtreme and the FV12 which I ran extensively on this track.

There is more than one line in this corner, that depends on your entry here. I will look again after AMS is out of BETA.
PS... I should mention that AMS AI (overall performance and race craft) is not equal for each car type... IMO StockV8 is the best followed by F3 (but the F3's cut corners a bit too much).

Yea I understand not wanting to do anything before beta ends. When/if you come back to look at the AI behavior just post here and I may have more to say cause issues or not I'm loving this track and I'm very impressed with the AI on the national version. I'll probably beat it to death and have much more accurate info on behavior for Formula type cars.

Appreciate your time, and maybe I can ask aloud if Patrick and yourself have considered doing the 1993 version that's the GP track with the Nissan chicane because... wow that thing is scary and thrilling. That would also make this an add on with quite a few layouts. Not sure if that'd be a record for an rFactor mod.

 

[Gringo]

@P*Funk

I can only suggest increasing the AI strength and aggression a bit. I notice that I enjoy the AI more when they are faster than me. If I find myself mid field (lap time) in practice then the AI racing is pretty good.

When you pressure the AI, they will give up very quickly on medium for example... either make them faster... or bump up the aggression should help. Aggression can help to minimize the slow entry / exit you see as well. So many factors and multipliers affect the AI performance. Its just not possible to get the AI drivers to drive like a human... the AI will never slide the car for example and therefor a human will (should) always be faster.

Cheers

 

[P*Funk]

@Gringo Yea I hear that, appreciate the suggestions. My only note is that its clear that even on low aggression I've found that at Interlagos AI seem pretty stirling across the board but then again that track is probably a template for everything Reiza does with their cars (I assume its their flagship track) so perhaps seeing what is found there has probably spoiled me with unrealistic expectations of whats possible to get consistently from all tracks.

I think I may need to go much higher aggression as I've tended to as a rule keep it low for the open wheel thing and AI silliness. Appreciate your time indulging me.

 

[Gringo]

I think I may need to go much higher aggression as I've tended to as a rule keep it low for the open wheel thing and AI silliness.

A lot of AI improvements have come along. There is an internal beta that I am not sure has gone live yet. I have been testing GP2003 with the very latest F309's.

At 100% Medium I am 1 second faster.

Spoiler

1 Default Player F309: #84 Andrew collins 6 01:37.3446 - PlayerControl
2 Lucas Tomasis (AI) F309: #9 Lucas Tomasis 4 01:38.2549 00:00.9103 AIControl
3 L¿©o Oliveira (AI) F309: #86 L¿©o Oliveira 4 01:38.3726 00:01.0280 AIControl
4 Georgio Hamda (AI) F309: #31 Georgio Hamda 6 01:38.3875 00:01.0429 AIControl
5 Carlos Zemantese (AI) F309: #59 Carlos Zemantes 5 01:38.4141 00:01.0695 AIControl
6 Th¿©o Straplo (AI) F309: #17 Th¿©o Straplo 6 01:38.4175 00:01.0729 AIControl
7 Yoni Smolia (AI) F309: #34 Yoni Smolia 3 01:38.5560 00:01.2114 AIControl
8 Fabio Bartello (AI) F309: #8 Fabio Bartello 3 01:38.7177 00:01.3731 AIControl
9 Chrsitiano Kortes (AI) F309: #13 Christiano Kortes 2 01:38.7569 00:01.4123 AIControl
10 Enrique Loumios (AI) F309: #25 Enrique Loumios 7 01:38.8607 00:01.5161 AIControl
11 Pedro Pitta (AI) F309: #5 Pedro Pitta 2 - - AIControl

At 103% / High the AI are spanking my butt by 1.5 seconds!...

Spoiler

1 Georgio Hamda (AI) F309: #31 Georgio Hamda 7 01:35.9424 - AIControl
2 Yoni Smolia (AI) F309: #34 Yoni Smolia 7 01:35.9481 00:00.0057 AIControl
3 Fabio Bartello (AI) F309: #8 Fabio Bartello 8 01:36.0837 00:00.1413 AIControl
4 Carlos Zemantese (AI) F309: #59 Carlos Zemantes 10 01:36.1106 00:00.1682 AIControl
5 Enrique Loumios (AI) F309: #25 Enrique Loumios 8 01:36.1252 00:00.1828 AIControl
6 Chrsitiano Kortes (AI) F309: #13 Christiano Kortes 9 01:36.1697 00:00.2273 AIControl
7 Th¿©o Straplo (AI) F309: #17 Th¿©o Straplo 9 01:36.1808 00:00.2384 AIControl
8 Pedro Pitta (AI) F309: #5 Pedro Pitta 8 01:36.3096 00:00.3672 AIControl
9 Lucas Tomasis (AI) F309: #9 Lucas Tomasis 8 01:36.3137 00:00.3713 AIControl
10 L¿©o Oliveira (AI) F309: #86 L¿©o Oliveira 8 01:36.4334 00:00.4910 AIControl

 

[P*Funk]

@Gringo That's really cool. I've felt like AMS has already been sneakily incrementally improving the AI. I'm looking forward to seeing its full potential at the end of beta.

I'm sure for a guy like you who tinkers with the AI this is kid in candystore time.

 

[nounoubleu]

Hi

I never noticed what you mention. Will try to reproduce

Thank you.
I checked again. Flickering come from marbles.
I remember I had more or less same issue with your Monza on GSCE and I could overcome it by adjusting my graphic settings in Nvidia Inspector.
So, I assume it's only graphic setting is in my computer but it's strange I dont have it at all on original tracks.

 

[Vojvoda]

Only track on AMS that I'm suffering "stuttering"... 100FPS at start in race session with drops to 70-80.
In practice sessions works perfect.
Maybe there is too much spectators on the stands.
Edit: Especially with F1 V10

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

70 fps should not give stuttering.
If you put the vsync It should fix it

 

[Diego Balzarini]

Great track,the line that the AI follows on pit entry doesn't look right

The pictures show one of the "early" entries, AI usually turn into the pits 40m up

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

Great track,the line that the AI follows on pit entry doesn't look right
View attachment 131763
The pictures show one of the "early" entries, AI usually turn into the pits 40m up

Gringo is on holidays now, we have to wait for him (about 3 weeks)

 

[DaVeX↯]

Sorry guys, you did a incredible work, but there is a way to have every single layout as standalone?