Attacking SPA hotlaps records

[nbk25]

i just started now at acc... don't have more than 3 days... i find it really hard to have under 2:22 lap time in SPA. using g29. is this a wheel problem or its actually that hard?

i tried even watch david perel and other guides in spa... i just cant!

im hitting the brake points even using throttle to stabilize the car... i cant get to 2:16.

my record was around 2:22:500 with mclaren and ferrari. using aggressive setups and other setups ready for download in this page.

just today i made around 200 laps. nearly quitting honestly

 

[nbk25]

I still think you lose most of the speed, because you drive too smooth & not bomb diving with the brake. So what's happening is the nose has no grip for the exit, since the nose is not pointing for the exit.

Here you basically hold the steering angle & release the brake. The correct pattern is you turn in, after you release the brake pressure & repeat. You just have to make sure that you steer in before you release the brake pressure.

If you read the post#41 you can profit at the apex when you don't steer in while holding the brake pressure & after you kind of can floor it.

i agree with it the corners before i was being too slow afraid from oversteer ... should i try to lower my abs and get used to it?

 

[nbk25]

my last one i think i can get 2:20 with a bit more training finally

 

[nbk25]

im using g29 and i had to change the pedals to brake im using brake where is the clutch and also changed the max limit of throttle so i can constantly full gas.. but i see in the video still there are some problems with it.

it might the TC saving me or the pedals are dying.

also i dont feel anything on my wheel that im losing the car and when i feel its already happening. this doesnt happen to me in Rfactor 2 or even f1 2019 game need better fbb settings for sure

 

[Mr Deap]

You still release the brake before squeezing the steering.

You can always train like that to build simracer muscle memory

Basically you steer over the limit everywhere & release the brake. Oh yeah, almost on/off throttle control...

 

[nbk25]

You still release the brake before squeezing the steering.

You can always train like that to build simracer muscle memory

Basically you steer over the limit everywhere & release the brake. Oh yeah, almost on/off throttle control...

thought i was0 not supposed to rotate more than 45-90º my wheel that would make me lose lot of time haha

 

[After_Midnight]

@nbk25 Can you give me the permission to use your video for a comparision. I'll try to create something helpful for you

Greets After_Midnight

 

[Mr Deap]

thought i was0 not supposed to rotate more than 45-90º my wheel that would make me lose lot of time haha

It's a fake remedy, because you're current muscle memory makes you underdrive the car.

Steering over the limit doesn't put a large penalty depending where & how you do it. It's slower for sure, but help you to get a feel of the game mechanic in my opinion. Explore the limit & learn by doing mistakes.

 

[nbk25]

@nbk25 Can you give me the permission to use your video for a comparision. I'll try to create something helpful for you

Greets After_Midnight

sure mate

 

[After_Midnight]

sure mate

Thanks mate So I've tried to make a side by side comparison for you. So can you see the differences in racing lines, use of track limits, braking points, throttle and brake inputs, engaged gears etc.
It was a bit hard to match the two videos because of your very wide field of view and the small stutter at La Source
But I tried my best to make it useful. Also I cutted your video twice to match it up "sector wise". So it's better comparable, I think. The sector relative times are still related to the whole lap.

Keep in mind it's the 2019 version of Spa and I'm not alien like fast

Attached is the used setup for the AMR. Basicially the Aggressive setup with just a few changes to make the car less understeer. You can easily add 1 click more rear wing and adjust the steering ratio to your likings. If you want to use the setup in races also I would recommend to change the brake pads and discs to 1. Depending at the grip level at the track and conditions of the tires you might change the ABS to 3.

While cutting your video I've noticed your full throttle is sometimes fluctuating a bit. So I don't know it's intended or a dirty rotary encoder at your throttle pedal.

If you like you can also check out this video. It's a different car but the taken lines around Spa are very similar.

Greets After_Midnight

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

@After_Midnight Nice one! Love the eau rouge of the first vid. You go flat, he lifts yet still gains time and speed on you. Makes it a nice example of why going flat out there is a sign of luxury rather than being an achievement.

edit: im an idiot lol, AM did lift too. Pls disregard that. Thou if he went flat the effect would be quite similar, with car struggling to accelerate uphill from scrubbing.

 

[Mr Deap]

Yeah, only win on braking... Not fair.

 

[RobertR1]

@After_Midnight Nice one! Love the eau rouge of the first vid. You go flat, he lifts yet still gains time and speed on you. Makes it a nice example of why going flat out there is a sign of luxury rather than being an achievement.

Ok so watch it in slow motion at .25x speed.

Car on the left lifts off early before the corner and then is full throttle going up the hill. Look at the steering input he's giving. He's fighting understeer and tire scrub. This is pushing him wide and he's adding lock to keep it tight. This will cost him at the exit as you'll see.

Car on the right lifts off when going into the hill to tuck the nose into the uphill right so he can then open his hands and exit the turn with minimal tire scrub.

By the time car on the right touches the exit curb on the top of the hill on the right, he's picked up a couple of kph which he extends to end of the straight.

Car on the left loses the time from time scrub even though he's full throttle. Once he reaches the top of the hill, he needs to add larger steering inputs to turn the car left and it's at this point he's going to lose speed. The front end will wash out and scrub off speed so he can stay on track.

Importantly, between the 2 driving styles, car on the right will be lot kinder to his tire temps and wear than the left if going for more than a hot lap.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Wait oh man hahaha. Somehow i didn't notice AfterMidnight lifted too, was sure he was flat. Ok sorry my bad!

Both lines are great and AM only looses a tiny bit by being hesitant on throttle.

 

[jkn87]

thx for advice can you tell me what part of the video specific or should i try overall?

1st half of track u need to use much much much more kerbs

 

[After_Midnight]

Ok so watch it in slow motion at .25x speed.

Car on the left lifts off early before the corner and then is full throttle going up the hill. Look at the steering input he's giving. He's fighting understeer and tire scrub. This is pushing him wide and he's adding lock to keep it tight. This will cost him at the exit as you'll see.

Car on the right lifts off when going into the hill to tuck the nose into the uphill right so he can then open his hands and exit the turn with minimal tire scrub.

By the time car on the right touches the exit curb on the top of the hill on the right, he's picked up a couple of kph which he extends to end of the straight.

Car on the left loses the time from time scrub even though he's full throttle. Once he reaches the top of the hill, he needs to add larger steering inputs to turn the car left and it's at this point he's going to lose speed. The front end will wash out and scrub off speed so he can stay on track.

Importantly, between the 2 driving styles, car on the right will be lot kinder to his tire temps and wear than the left if going for more than a hot lap.

Perfect analysis

Wait oh man hahaha. Somehow i didn't notice AfterMidnight lifted too, was sure he was flat. Ok sorry my bad!

Both lines are great and AM only looses a tiny bit by being hesitant on throttle.

Yeah mate. I was about to write: I'm lifting in Eau Rouge too
You can go flat there if you hit exactly the point for turning right into the hill to Raidillon and some setup changes. But you'll just gain a marginal amount of time there. After the setup change I always lose the gained time in the other parts of the track

The bad side effects of going flat Eua Rouge and Raidillon are for me:
- it's very easy to invalid your lap time/lap
- it's very easy to lose the rear end and crash immediately
- It's harder for the tires at longer term

So for me is it not worth to go flat there at all cost for the small amount of time I'm gaining at this point.

But this is just my opinion and maybe my skill limit.

@nbk25 Just another suggestion:
Instead of doing a "scandinavian flick" at the end of your new fastest lap you should go on and try to replicate or improve the lap before

 

[Mr Deap]

30% speed, look carefully also at the race logic

I definitely think the problem come down that you have trouble to rotate to car. In a nutshell the car is always understeering, because of overly smooth input. Not enough load on the tires to makes grip while cornering.

Most of the time when you exit the corner there's no steering play, because you input throttle while the front is understeering & it destroy the exit speed. If you slow down even more via youtube, you can see before you accelerate that the front is not quite responding when you compare to the right side.

You have to be more aggressive when you get off the throttle to upset more the load balance to obtain front grip when going off it.

I bet if you just wait a bit before flooring it, it will exit faster, due to the timespace required for the front to get respond, regardless how bad the entry maneuver is screwed up.

Not enough speed mid entry, too much speed almost to the apex. Nose is understeering right after the apex most of the time. There's only one part of the line that is wrong which costed about .4sec, but for the most part it's how you handle the load that is the problem.

 

[After_Midnight]

30% speed, look carefully also at the race logic

I definitely think the problem come down that you have trouble to rotate to car. In a nutshell the car is always understeering, because of overly smooth input. Not enough load on the tires to makes grip while cornering.

Most of the time when you exit the corner there's no steering play, because you input throttle while the front is understeering & it destroy the exit speed. If you slow down even more via youtube, you can see before you accelerate that the front is not quite responding when you compare to the right side.

You have to be more aggressive when you get off the throttle to upset more the load balance to obtain front grip when going off it.

I bet if you just wait a bit before flooring it, it will exit faster, due to the timespace required for the front to get respond, regardless how bad the entry maneuver is screwed up.

Not enough speed mid entry, too much speed almost to the apex. Nose is understeering right after the apex most of the time. There's only one part of the line that is wrong which costed about .4sec, but for the most part it's how you handle the load that is the problem.

While watching your video in comparison to mine in order to improve myself I've noticed a lot of interesting stuff.
You're very very close to an invalid lap, aren't you? Especially at Eau Rouge/Raidillon and turn 11.
Another fact here your exit speed at Raidillon is around 243 km/h. In comparison to me you're 3 km/k faster at this point. But this speed advantage is not extending to the end of Kemmel. Also I'm not able to attack the inner curb at turn 11 like you. If I try it and even with very similar inputs my car will start to bounce and will end in the wall at the right side.
So I think you use a more "soft&sticky" setup for the AMR. (Beside the fact you're a much better driver)
Maybe you can share it.

 

[Mr Deap]

I do not own ACC & I never played it. I didn't play actual simracing game for almost 2 years. None of it is my content & I use it in fair use for educational purpose.

This picture hold true based on all the analyst I've made with a video editor, because the whole point is to have available front load before the exit phase & the rear end is the pivot point.
View attachment 342301

If the G meter is perfectly centered for the longitudinal force at the apex you will basically understeer on exit. So for players who's careful & picky with the weight balance are heavily penalized.

Every games have their quirks.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

Another fact here your exit speed at Raidillon is around 243 km/h. In comparison to me you're 3 km/k faster at this point. But this speed advantage is not extending to the end of Kemmel.

While Spa is considered a low downforce track like Monza, both tracks can actually benefit from additional downforce if the driver is good enough to exploit. That's why when you look at leaderboards hardly ever will there be a laptime with both best time and best top speed. As most of the fast bois crank the downforce up.

Also I'm not able to attack the inner curb at turn 11 like you. If I try it and even with very similar inputs my car will start to bounce and will end in the wall at the right side.
So I think you use a more "soft&sticky" setup for the AMR.

Yeah that corner has 2 lines, grounded and flying over kerbs. Trying to just clip it is worse than either way. Also that driver really sends it deep with front wheels turning above the limit, which is popular technique to stabilize the car over massive bumps.

 

[After_Midnight]

While Spa is considered a low downforce track like Monza, both tracks can actually benefit from additional downforce if the driver is good enough to exploit. That's why when you look at leaderboards hardly ever will there be a laptime with both best time and best top speed. As most of the fast bois crank the downforce up.
Yeah that corner has 2 lines, grounded and flying over kerbs. Trying to just clip it is worse than either way. Also that driver really sends it deep with front wheels turning above the limit, which is popular technique to stabilize the car over massive bumps.

Related to my driving skill I would consider Spa to a mid downforce track. The provided setup at post #69 allows top speeds of 264 km/h at the end of the Kemmel straight if you going flat Eau Rouge/Raidillon. The car is still stable enought for the second sector.

In turn 11 I always try to go over the curb. Not that extrem like in the video of @Mr Deap because my front end seems to be not shock absorbing enought. Going grounded makes a lot slower at this point.