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Assetto Corsa Competizione | V1.5.2 Now Available

Leynad777

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Jan 30, 2015
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I always felt that there is something very wrong in ACC especially about how the cars behave off-throttle. There is no proper off-throttle-oversteer and thanks to Niels Heusinkveld I know exactly why: If you rev the engine up and go off the throttle, the revs are slowly decreasing instead of cutting off like seen in countless onboard-videos, so you are factually not going off-throttle but easing off like with a driving assist. Even if you rev to the limiter and go off-throttle the revs stay in the limiter for a second or so. This behavior prevents the cars from shifting sufficient longitudinal weight to the front and open the differential for better maneuverability. This might be also the reason from other issues Niels found out like longer braking distances and rather going for the lower gear because if the cars are not properly decelerating off-throttle, you need to do it with the brake and shifter. So please Kunos, give us some proper throttle-engine mappings and not this noob-nonsense;)

 
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Butzemann

... Quick but without hastiness ...
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Oct 21, 2011
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Interesting. But I am afraid, I see this different.

Lift off oversteer may occur on the edge and depends strongly on the car and type of car (fwd, rwd, front engine, mid engine, rear engine). I do not recognize this phenomenom as a part of useful driving techniques, but as the introduction for a fatal snap off oversteer followed by a crash. In other words - lift off oversteer isn’t a very pleasant type of oversteer.

As far as the throttle response is concerned I recommend to take a view into the MoTeC data, which give a "real" impression about how fast the rev drops in which driving condition. From my experience the revs do not stay in the limiter or elsewhere for a time period while the throttle is already closed. But I have to admit, that there is indeed a mismatch between dashboard and UHD. In this background the conclusion about the allegedly false off throttle behavior and the throttle response seems to be erratic.


Cheers
 

After_Midnight

1000RPM
Sep 25, 2010
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I always felt that there is something very wrong in ACC...
Bla bla bla. Like always after watching someones video you come up with your opinion. Because you knew it before already. Even it was your pinnacle of simulation before :cautious: Your behavoiur is exactly like mentoined by @Abgefahren in one of his stream.


This might be also the reason from other issues Niels found out like longer braking distances
Michelin vs Pirelli
 
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Leynad777

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Jan 30, 2015
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Bla bla bla. Like always after watching someones video you come up with your opinion. Because you knew it before already. Even it was your pinnacle of simulation before :cautious: Your behavoiur is exactly like mentoined by @Abgefahren in one of his stream.



Michelin vs Pirelli
You can write what you want, there is no proper lift off oversteer in ACC and countless onboards proof it. If the real drivers go off throttle, the LEDs getting dark unlike ACC and on throttle behavior is also a joke. That's why almost nobody is spinning anymore online because braking and throttling is designed for gamepads. You don't need to modulate your pedal inputs because the game basically only recognize half or full, ABS and TC will do the rest anyway. And without assists the cars behave very odd, but that's my opinion.
 
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Marlonracer

@Simberia
Jan 18, 2019
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You can write what you want, there is no proper lift off oversteer in ACC and countless onboards proof it. If the real drivers go off throttle, the LEDs getting dark unlike ACC and on throttle behavior is also a joke. That's why almost nobody is spinning anymore online because braking and throttling is designed for gamepads. You don't need to modulate your pedal inputs because the game basically only recognize half or full, ABS and TC will do the rest anyway. And without assists the cars behave very odd, but that's my opinion.
Cause the game is now catered to:
baby-driving-car-490x327.jpg
 

Butzemann

... Quick but without hastiness ...
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Oct 21, 2011
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If the real drivers go off throttle, the LEDs getting dark unlike ACC and on throttle behavior is also a joke.
You have no real background in racing and race car technology at all, haven´t you? If the opposite is true, you should have known, that the LED string of the dash board does not shine with idle rev, but at a higher rev. Usually around 50-60% of the maximum rev. If you see in countless videos, that the dashboard is dark, it does not mean, that the throttle is off. It only means, that the rev is below a certain limit value.

This limit is around 5.800 1/min for a Lambo Huracan GT3 Evo - you can take it from real life videos as well as from gameplay recordings.

Any link to lift off oversteer? Still not and will not.
 

DrRob

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Jan 7, 2017
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You can write what you want, there is no proper lift off oversteer in ACC and countless onboards proof it. If the real drivers go off throttle, the LEDs getting dark unlike ACC and on throttle behavior is also a joke. That's why almost nobody is spinning anymore online because braking and throttling is designed for gamepads. You don't need to modulate your pedal inputs because the game basically only recognize half or full, ABS and TC will do the rest anyway. And without assists the cars behave very odd, but that's my opinion.
I have to modulate my loud pedal inputs quite a bit to not spin on corner exit (with low TC that is). Especially on changing surface conditions. I use the throttle on tight corners to rotate the car. Same with lifting the throttle. You can manipulate the car to get better turn-in. Weight and load transfer and stuff.

With mid-mounted engine cars I can easily get lift off oversteer. That's what I dislike most about the Audi for example. You have to gently go off throttle and/or trail-brake more than with other cars to stabilize the rear axle on fast corners. Take Signes corner on Paul Ricard for example.

Maybe these effects are less pronounced as in real life, cannot be truly replicated or were changed deliberately for the game. I haven't driven a GT3 car myself yet, so couldn't make a judgement.
 

Leynad777

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Jan 30, 2015
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You have no real background in racing and race car technology at all, haven´t you? If the opposite is true, you should have known, that the LED string of the dash board does not shine with idle rev, but at a higher rev. Usually around 50-60% of the maximum rev. If you see in countless videos, that the dashboard is dark, it does not mean, that the throttle is off. It only means, that the rev is below a certain limit value.

This limit is around 5.800 1/min for a Lambo Huracan GT3 Evo - you can take it from real life videos as well as from gameplay recordings.

Any link to lift off oversteer? Still not and will not.
That's not what I mean and it's basically about engine braking or rather a lack of engine braking and so lack of differential opening off throttle in ACC leading to less rotation and understeer. In racecars you can adjust it with the engine torque map and off-throttle you usually want significant negative torque to decelerate, get more grip in the front-tyres that is leading to better rotation.

You can replicate this handling funnily in pCars 2, since it offers engine brake mappings. Higher means less engine brake and ACC drives like pCars 2 on the highest setting, which is far above the 'stable setup' which is above the 'loose setup'. So this ECU-maps in ACC doesn't make sense since they don't allow significant engine brake and rotation on the supposed to be 'aggressive' setup. And since this leads to understeer, people are messing with the rear driving height to get more rotation because Kunos is not offering reasonable ECU/engine torque maps.
 

Leynad777

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They are all here
If you feel they are "unreasonable", have car manufacturer data to back this up, and genuinely want sim to improve, just post your suggestions on Kunos official support forum in that linked ECU thread.
There are no mappings for engine brake. Fun fact for me today was by driving the Ferrari 488 GT3 and Porsche GT3 R in pCars 2 again after a long break and hell are they awesome to drive :thumbsup: ACC, rF2 and iRacing are IMO still far away from these dynamics. SMS just needed to fix the low-aero exploit and I guess AMS2 will do the trick;)
 

Leynad777

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They are not, thought it is the same torque pedal map that controls it?
Chances are that SMS engine does not go into such depth of ECU mapping simulation that prevents excessive engine braking.
Just watch onboards and there is more engine brake in the real cars, because it make sense.
T2 and later it gets pretty obvious like at 0:42, so when he's not downshifting but just reducing throttle. It looks even like a downshift but it isn't until he downshifts. It doesn't look like a lot, but in reality the weight shifts to the front in a split of a second providing more front-grip, less in the rear, opens the diff to rotate the car better. In ACC the torque is still there an push every car into understeer.
 
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Leynad777

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Doesn't prove anything, at all, whatever you are trying to prove and what you expect us to get out of that random video.
This was just one example out of any I watched and just look at the dynamics of the steering-inputs. There is far more compare to what ACC provides yet. And what I felt today in pCars 2 on the laserscanned Brands Hatch was certainly not perfect, but much less simcade than ACC. There is just no pedal-precision needed in this game.
 
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baronesbc

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This was just one example out of any I watched and just look at the dynamics of the steering-inputs. There is far more compare to what ACC provides yet. And what I felt today in pCars 2 on the laserscanned Brands Hatch was certainly not perfect, but much less simcade than ACC. There is just no pedal-precision needed in this game.
Just a random video by Jardier to answer all your "doubts". Lift oversteer, oversteer, steering imputs, and the next and still funny "you can't control the slide" on acc. On that regard i'd suggest also some Porsche Cup videos:
 

NuScorpii

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Oct 12, 2019
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Just watch onboards and there is more engine brake in the real cars, because it make sense.
How do you know that's engine braking and not actual braking!?

I tired doing a test in ACC by choosing two points on a long straight, getting up to the limiter in 3rd before the first point and then lifting off and noting the speed at the second point:

Clutch depressed - 122kph
Left in 3rd gear - 84kph
Down shifting ASAP - 65kph

Seems like there is plenty of engine braking happening.