Assetto Corsa 1/Competizione FFB comparision

[Echo291191]

Just to prove it to myself that im not going crazy, and to give the devs an idea of whats happening with my wheel and probably a lot of other users who are having difficulty, I have recorded a comparison of my wheel in AC and ACC.

As you can see, AC1 FFB instantly responded to oversteer, ACC is very slow and sluggish, only seems to go 1 speed.
Can anyone confirm they are experiencing the same thing? and does this happen to people who are loving the FFB?, just so we can clarify if there are problems, or if this is just how the FFB is currently.

Edit: Im not trying to bash ACC, I love AC, and was completely on the hype train, but in its current state its not enjoyable for me, I cant drive with so much lack of information.

 

[Hiro Abe]

Everyone’s ffb shouldn’t be personal though, a gt3 huracan will only ever feel like a gt3 huracan in real life.

Okay... but how many of us know what a GT3 Huracan really feels like? How can you ever know if it is truly realistic?

 

[RaceNut]

My RL driving experience tells me that there are certainly times where I can clearly feel front Grip-loss in the steering wheel. Whether or not that is the case in the real GT3 car on slicks, I cannot say for sure but, it's something I like to feel in any simulation.

Maybe my driving skills are lacking and I need the extra cues, or maybe I just enjoy feeling like a racing hero for an evening as I balance the car on the ragged edge; why should the FFB only be suited to one type of Sim-racer?

Having a few extra FFB-settings to accommodate more player-preferences doesn't mean having to compromise realism - does it? Perhaps some are threatened by online opponents having the advantage? I just don't get the argument against having the option to use such effects; if you like them fine, if not disable them and have the FFB you want.

 

[Tomcul]

But if you can completely change the way a car feels through the ffb then in the end what are you left simulating, because you lost the huracan the moment you changed the way it would feel in real life..
For me a sim should come set up as close as possible to the real thing verified by top drivers in each category and peak torques measured and scaled as close as to match the real thing, obviously dependant on end users wheel. Adding a few settings for the tweekers after that is a good idea too so then everyone should be happy? Or is this wrong?
Not really an argument though and not sure why anyone would feel threatened about anything!

 

[Case_]

Edit: nevermind.

 

[RaceNut]

It had fake effects as it was giving you info you would feel on your body, not on your steering wheel

I kind of hate to break it to you but, all of Simulation is based in imitating something real (i.e., it's Fake by definition).

Now, within the context of Simulation, I can understand why the ideal is to have all FFB come from physics-based simulation but, that assumes that the FFB-API can provide all of the effects that exist in reality; the fact is, it cannot so, some additional effects (canned / fake effects - as people call them, as opposed the physics-based fake effects) can actually enhance our experience and provide more realism.

Ironically, some of the people calling for "realism only in FFB" seem to have trouble accepting the actual reality of Simulating Reality.

In reality, feedback through the wheel may, or may not include something like front grip-loss effects; I know this to be a fact because I have experienced it firsthand. Yet, I see people suggesting it is a fake-effect and crutch.

"Play and Let Play".

 

[Vitor M Sousa]

I kind of hate to break it to you but, all of Simulation is based in imitating something real (i.e., it's Fake by definition).

Now, within the context of Simulation, I can understand why the ideal is to have all FFB come from physics-based simulation but, that assumes that the FFB-API can provide all of the effects that exist in reality; the fact is, it cannot so, some additional effects (canned / fake effects - as people call them, as opposed the physics-based fake effects) can actually enhance our experience and provide more realism.

Ironically, some of the people calling for "realism only in FFB" seem to have trouble accepting the actual reality of Simulating Reality.

In reality, feedback through the wheel may, or may not include something like front grip-loss effects; I know this to be a fact because I have experienced it firsthand. Yet, I see people suggesting it is a fake-effect and crutch.

"Play and Let Play".

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying your assumption that it has no canned effects is wrong.
In real life you don't feel every bump on the road on your wheel. You feel it on your body.
Now of course in a simulation these feelings are needed. So they compromise and put it on the wheel. But that means they are adding effects to the FFB

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm saying your assumption that it has no canned effects is wrong.
In real life you don't feel every bump on the road on your wheel. You feel it on your body.
Now of course in a simulation these feelings are needed. So they compromise and put it on the wheel. But that means they are adding effects to the FFB

You are putting wrong meaning into canned, if the effect comes calculated from physics model, it's not canned, even if it doesn't go through the steering rack in real life. Simracing would be dull and boring if it was just that.

 

[Daggerman]

It had fake effects as it was giving you info you would feel on your body, not on your steering wheel

So what your asking for there is basically a completely different ffb to what AC had, which in terms of its user base, is likely to be a controversial change.

 

[Echo291191]

We are not driving real cars, we don't get the g forces or vibrations of the real car, if the FFB felt exactly the same as RL we probably wouldn't be able to feel anything.

Changing the FFB won't affect the cars handling at all, it will still handle the same as your Huracan... but the feedback of what's happening with the car will be dependent on your settings.

 

[PsyaNyde]

I tried it and hated the FFB (T500RS), almost to the point of just giving up on it, BUT, when I first tried RR3 many years ago, I also hated that, but now it's probably my favourite sim . So, for now, i'll patiently wait for ACC to improve and give it the chance Kunos deserves, i'm sure by full release date ACC will be sorted and most of us will be happy.

 

[Marc Collins]

I tried it and hated the FFB (T500RS), almost to the point of just giving up on it, BUT, when I first tried RR3 many years ago, I also hated that, but now it's probably my favourite sim . So, for now, i'll patiently wait for ACC to improve and give it the chance Kunos deserves, i'm sure by full release date ACC will be sorted and most of us will be happy.

I suspect given the number of complaints about FFB, it will be worked-on and resolved long before release date. ...Like maybe by the next update. There is something a bit off (undoubtedly the damping issue), but the fundamentals are there and solid. I suspect most will be happy sooner than later.

 

[DrRob]

Just checked yesterday. I have no idea how the car is behaving. I cannot seem to find the sweet spot to produce good laptimes at all. I have no confidence to lean on the car/tyre. Feels like I'm driving on slicks on a completely wet surface (albeit I was driving in dry conditions).
Maybe its not only the FFB I'm having trouble with but also the way the tyre model is working. Also the car doesn't feel to behave like a "real" car in terms of cornering/roll. It more or less feels like horizontally turning like hinged on a center pin.
Not sure if that is a fixable fault or more or less the way car behaviour was programmed in the first place. I remember having the same impression in AC although not as pronounced...maybe because I had more confidence in the car because of the FFB.
As it is now I don't have any fun playing ACC. Not that I enjoy saying that because I was expecting ACC to be my next go-to sim. I'll try again after the next major update.

 

[giulio0079]

I suspect given the number of complaints about FFB, it will be worked-on and resolved long before release date. ...Like maybe by the next update. There is something a bit off (undoubtedly the damping issue), but the fundamentals are there and solid. I suspect most will be happy sooner than later.

I also think the fundamentals are there , and given time we're gonna appreciate the "different" feeling of the ffb , that in the end remain imo the most personal aspect of simracing

 

[RaceNut]

In terms of the handling in ACC, I agree that it seems very good at this point and I'm really pleased with how the rain affects it too but, I find it somewhat difficult to judge the finer points without having the similar FFB effects of AC and other titles. Not that AC's FFB is perfect but, it does offer good tuning capabilities. I can understand why Kunos would want to keep things simple at this point in development but, will wait and see how things evolve.

 

[RaceNut]

I tried it and hated the FFB (T500RS), almost to the point of just giving up on it, BUT, when I first tried RR3 many years ago, I also hated that, but now it's probably my favourite sim . So, for now, i'll patiently wait for ACC to improve and give it the chance Kunos deserves, i'm sure by full release date ACC will be sorted and most of us will be happy.

Yes, but, R3E has received both FFB and Physics updates in recent months. For a long time, I considered it unplayable with my hardware (DD-wheel) because the FFB made no sense although, it seemed to work well enough on mainstream wheels. Since S3S worked directly with the manufacturer and developed a preset designed for the AccuForce, I've been able to use that to provide much improved results.

I do think Kunos will improve on what ACC has now and that should make it one of my top titles because it has many of the right ingredients to be very excellent.

 

[Case_]

Yes, but, R3E has received both FFB and Physics updates in recent months.

I think that was exactly his point.

(Though, at least in case of FFB, it's a bit of a stretch to say "in recent months", it's been a year and a half.)

 

[Dady Cairo]

I think that was exactly his point.

(Though, at least in case of FFB, it's a bit of a stretch to say "in recent months", it's been a year and a half.)

And I like it like that...a lot.
DC

 

[manu68]

I don't critic the FFB personally.
I am not specialist, and I do with what I have, a logitech G25.
900° in profiler and in game.

Just a comment, with my own wheel (no idea if it is the same with other wheel)
I have absolutely no information when I loss grip from the front tyres. I just can rely on the noise. I mean, the craft on the wheel is always about the same, or not significantly different.

Impossible to recover a small slide from the rear wheels.
As soon as it begins, not depending on the speed, there is only one end. 180°.
I can happen even at very slow speed, and then the car rotates slowly, which is totally unrealistic.

Once again, with my whelle and my settings. Not a frontal critic, just because a G25 can not simulate a real car.

 

[RaceNut]

So, I find the FFB much improved in v0.2 of ACC; the ability to reduce the Dynamic-Dampening has very positive results for me with both the AccuForce and the OSW-SimuCube. In both cases, I use very little - if any Dynamic-Dampening for improved wheel response. I like that I can dial in some road-bump effects but, both steering systems require high levels of smoothening to get the rubbery-quality I prefer in FFB.

With the AccuForce, I have AF-smoothing set to over 200 / friction of 1.5+ / all other effects are off but, have zero issues with oscillations.

OSW-SimuCube: Recon-Filter of 6 / Friction of 0.5 / Dampening of 0.5 / Inertia of 1.5 / again, zero issues with oscillations.

ACC settings: Rotation of 600 / Dynamic-Dampening of 0-35% / Road Detail to preference (I'm using about 75%).

Update: Gamer Muscle reports that Dynamic-Dampening at 100% (OSW) results in more realistic behavior so I'll want to revisit that myself and see if I can maintain the detail I like by reducing some wheel-driver side settings. There seems to be multiple ways to arrive at the same destination but, one may have a slight advantage over another.

 

[Ferenczy36]

Okay, I jumped in the ACC pool last night and was pleasantly surprised. FFB felt great, and dare I say reminiscent of RF2. I am using a Fanatec Clubsport Elite. The curb effects could be a little stronger, but maybe I just need to spend more time adjusting things. Loving it so far!

Having difficulty though in navigating menus while on track and pits. I can use my wheel toggles, etc. while in pits to start driving, but once driving, if I ESC to pause and bring up the menu, the toggles don't work and I can't navigate anything, not even to exit the track back to the main menu. I did only spend 30 minutes or so with it at most so just need to mess with it some more.