Are you happy with the latest tire model

Do you think the tire model could be better,
After racing online i cant help but think the tire model is lacking in certain aspects,
It has loads of grip then all of a sudden it like it lets go, but the feel i get when it lets go is strange, its so hard to catch it..
by no means am i an expert driver, but i do find other sims a lot easier to control once the cars is sliding,
maybe the other sims have it wrong and this is correct but it just feels odd to me at times.

have you experienced the same or have a different feel
 
yes it does.. and dude, you are NOT the community.
Hopefully the REAL community one day will understand people like you should be singled out because the only net result of your action is suck every passion out of devs.
Either way, all I hope is that I will be as far as possible from this **** to even notice it.

EDIT: And yeah! You are right, we ALL had you one time or another on skype, and we ALL came to the same independent conclusion to block you... you are NOT the community, you're just a random bloke with too much time on his hands and colossal inferiority complex.
as i said it's not my opinion it's a pretty well stablished opinion within the simracing comunity, it's not just me that has this opinion. understood?
 
Could you all please calm down?
Cause I just had the blast of my life with the amg gt3 on the Nordschleife endurance while I watched the real Qualifying on the TV.
More or less default setup, 22 degree ambient and Medium tyres.
I was about 2-5 seconds slower than the top ten and my 2 cents on the tyre model:
Yes it could be a bit more forgiving and the medium + hards on gt3 could be a bit earlier heating up for my taste.
But it is already the best I did ever got my hands on so I really don't know why some guys habe to get so mad about it!
@Aristotelis @kunos you clearly proved that you care. For two reasons: you showing up here and the three year old game still getting awesome patches! Well Stefano you attacked me a little bit on another thread for my flicker-explanation and that was just a misunderstanding. I felt a bit offended but you were right and who am I to not pay respect to a man that is a professional on his subject and maybe got annoyed by me?! :)
So again: why you can't be nice to another and keep a friendly discussion going on because I learnt a lot by the good questions that were answered by Aris in a really understandable and detailed way! Thanks for taking the time for us!
 
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Also the heating model is way to low, it's almost imposible to heat up the hard compound

Also another thing i never understood is why when the tyre reaches 115º 120º, it drives like if you were on ice

And the tyre should be more sensitive to overdriving the tyre and overheating, in terms of wear. It should reward a little bit more those who take care of their tyres

Outside of Albert being Albert there were some decent points on GT3 tyres, even though as David said completely unrelated to the tyre model. All 3 "issues" if they are ones are fixable with different parameters only.

- Right now the hard compound is irrelevant. It slowly happened over the course of many updates but in its current grip/wear/temperature state it cannot be used anywhere even under sauna-like conditions.

- If for a given race you even dare to make the choice to go with the soft compound that is on the limit of overheating, one big slide and they are gone. Not take it easy for a few corners and they will come back gone but good luck making it through the next corners pointing in the right direction gone. I'm not sure if that's the case irl, I'm leaning towards : it's not as brutal as what we have. I see it as if it's a steady, slow build up, core overheating the drivers feel it coming way before it's too late and back off. If it's the surface overheating from a big slide it's basically fixed by the air before you get to the next corner.

- It never pays off to be kind on your tyres. You want to win, you pick whatever compound(95% of the time the medium) that can deal with you overdriving like a madman for a full stint without overheating and you go beat the **** out of them. Fastest way, by quite a good margin. Again, not sure about real life but I have forever been told that the drivers that are easy on the tyres have an edge, I'm not seeing that in AC right now.
 
Outside of Albert being Albert there were some decent points on GT3 tyres, even though as David said completely unrelated to the tyre model. All 3 "issues" if they are ones are fixable with different parameters only.

This is something we can discuss about for sure.
As I said, nothing is perfect, otherwise it would be reality. Me and @PhilS13 have a long story of discussing such things and his feedback is always very valuable.

Anyway let's see.

- Right now the hard compound is irrelevant. It slowly happened over the course of many updates but in its current grip/wear/temperature state it cannot be used anywhere even under sauna-like conditions.
I believe the hard can be useful in situations like Mugello (looong very fast turns) at a high Italian summer temperature (say over 27°C). But I'll double check if that is not the case. But if this is to be taken into perspective. If you are in such situation (27 or 35°C in Italy or Barcelona is not that rare) and you don't have such a hard tyre, what will you do? So this is the other end of the spectrum.

- If for a given race you even dare to make the choice to go with the soft compound that is on the limit of overheating, one big slide and they are gone. Not take it easy for a few corners and they will come back gone but good luck making it through the next corners pointing in the right direction gone. I'm not sure if that's the case irl, I'm leaning towards : it's not as brutal as what we have. I see it as if it's a steady, slow build up, core overheating the drivers feel it coming way before it's too late and back off. If it's the surface overheating from a big slide it's basically fixed by the air before you get to the next corner.

- It never pays off to be kind on your tyres. You want to win, you pick whatever compound(95% of the time the medium) that can deal with you overdriving like a madman for a full stint without overheating and you go beat the **** out of them. Fastest way, by quite a good margin. Again, not sure about real life but I have forever been told that the drivers that are easy on the tyres have an edge, I'm not seeing that in AC right now.

Ok I know what you mean (I think), but you also understand that those two affirmations are in conflict between them. You're saying that if you're in the soft compound, you have to nurse it and be very careful. But on the next paragraph, you say you don't have to nurse the tyres, mediums on proper conditions for them, which is most of the time and means that there is a compound that works "most of the time".

Also, the thing about "easy on the tyres" is very subjective. It is. For example, a very aggressive driver that does also many errors, or simply trying to oversteer at every single turn, will get quite a performance penalty in AC right now.
What you're probably after, is also "penalizing" drivers that drive properly but push a lot. Which I understand, but again it is hard to pin point, because as soon as, for example, make you happy, I'll get thousand of others complaining that now it is too penalizing. I will also get others that will still complain that it is too permissive.
Keep in mind, that in real life, those cars are driven by gentelmen drivers and professionals and the tyres have to suit most of them (and also many different cars with different configurations... ask Porsche about the trouble they have ;) ).

Now, one of the things that might be good to look at, is how the tyres wear out, as it seems we don't have enough tyre wear. But then again, it is still complicated. AC tyres let you drive even when the tyre is consumed and sometimes you only understand things are getting worse, just by the laptimes. Which is correct, as in reality. But on the other hand, I understand that sometimes people do not "feel" the danger of the consumed tyre and think that the tyres do not need to be taken care of.

Again I'm not saying it's perfect, needs work as everything. But it's a fine line now. When we were at v7 I was in a hurry because I knew we had various problems and wanted to get done as much as I can, as fast as possible. Nowadays with v10, I prefer to "take my time" and research things as much as possible, before I commit to any changes for the public version. That doesn't mean we are not working behind the scenes though. Certainly, it is not a "snap and ready for next day" kind of things.

cheers
 
This is something we can discuss about for sure.
As I said, nothing is perfect, otherwise it would be reality. Me and @PhilS13 have a long story of discussing such things and his feedback is always very valuable.

Anyway let's see.


I believe the hard can be useful in situations like Mugello (looong very fast turns) at a high Italian summer temperature (say over 27°C). But I'll double check if that is not the case. But if this is to be taken into perspective. If you are in such situation (27 or 35°C in Italy or Barcelona is not that rare) and you don't have such a hard tyre, what will you do? So this is the other end of the spectrum.



Ok I know what you mean (I think), but you also understand that those two affirmations are in conflict between them. You're saying that if you're in the soft compound, you have to nurse it and be very careful. But on the next paragraph, you say you don't have to nurse the tyres, mediums on proper conditions for them, which is most of the time and means that there is a compound that works "most of the time".

Also, the thing about "easy on the tyres" is very subjective. It is. For example, a very aggressive driver that does also many errors, or simply trying to oversteer at every single turn, will get quite a performance penalty in AC right now.
What you're probably after, is also "penalizing" drivers that drive properly but push a lot. Which I understand, but again it is hard to pin point, because as soon as, for example, make you happy, I'll get thousand of others complaining that now it is too penalizing. I will also get others that will still complain that it is too permissive.
Keep in mind, that in real life, those cars are driven by gentelmen drivers and professionals and the tyres have to suit most of them (and also many different cars with different configurations... ask Porsche about the trouble they have ;) ).

Now, one of the things that might be good to look at, is how the tyres wear out, as it seems we don't have enough tyre wear. But then again, it is still complicated. AC tyres let you drive even when the tyre is consumed and sometimes you only understand things are getting worse, just by the laptimes. Which is correct, as in reality. But on the other hand, I understand that sometimes people do not "feel" the danger of the consumed tyre and think that the tyres do not need to be taken care of.

Again I'm not saying it's perfect, needs work as everything. But it's a fine line now. When we were at v7 I was in a hurry because I knew we had various problems and wanted to get done as much as I can, as fast as possible. Nowadays with v10, I prefer to "take my time" and research things as much as possible, before I commit to any changes for the public version. That doesn't mean we are not working behind the scenes though. Certainly, it is not a "snap and ready for next day" kind of things.

cheers

Thanks for taking the time, again:D

The hards were as you describe them on v7, now they are just a few degrees away from being usable imo.

I see where there might be a contradiction but I think I just expressed it badly. My point was we have no choice. We show up at a race, try the softs, most of the time they overheat. We try the meds, 50% of the time the fronts are cold unless Godzilla. So what do we do? Nurse the softs? No, it's never worth it. Taking it easy has too little impact on temps and wear even if you are a couple seconds off your ultimate pace. Plus you run the risk of the mighty slide that sends them to hell.

So mediums it is. But can you drive intelligent and be kind on them ? No because they are already on the slightly cold ish side. Taking it easy only lowers the temps even more (not a lot but still a loss) and the impact on wear is too small to have an advantage at the end of the stint. So we're left with driving the **** out the mediums.

On the pirelli graph you posted, there is always two compounds overlapping each other, even three in the 20-25° area. This to me suggests at least two compound should "work ok" for any given conditions and be competitive if you adjust your driving style to them. In AC, we don't have a choice, well we do but the wrong choice is several seconds behind the best one. It should probably be closer.

This is only feedback from league racing perspective and I fully understand the need to not frustrate 90% of the users, I'm more than okay with what we already have, proof being I'm still racIng and having plenty of fun with even after 3 years.
 
Thanks for taking the time, again:D

The hards were as you describe them on v7, now they are just a few degrees away from being usable imo.

I see where there might be a contradiction but I think I just expressed it badly. My point was we have no choice. We show up at a race, try the softs, most of the time they overheat. We try the meds, 50% of the time the fronts are cold unless Godzilla. So what do we do? Nurse the softs? No, it's never worth it. Taking it easy has too little impact on temps and wear even if you are a couple seconds off your ultimate pace. Plus you run the risk of the mighty slide that sends them to hell.

So mediums it is. But can you drive intelligent and be kind on them ? No because they are already on the slightly cold ish side. Taking it easy only lowers the temps even more (not a lot but still a loss) and the impact on wear is too small to have an advantage at the end of the stint. So we're left with driving the **** out the mediums.

On the pirelli graph you posted, there is always two compounds overlapping each other, even three in the 20-25° area. This to me suggests at least two compound should "work ok" for any given conditions and be competitive if you adjust your driving style to them. In AC, we don't have a choice, well we do but the wrong choice is several seconds behind the best one. It should probably be closer.

This is only feedback from league racing perspective and I fully understand the need to not frustrate 90% of the users, I'm more than okay with what we already have, proof being I'm still racIng and having plenty of fun with even after 3 years.
This is constructive criticism :thumbsup: and a very good example for @Albert McSaltens .
BTW: Maybe its me but the Lord is very chilled the last time.
Just a therapie or he found something in the Netherlands what makes him more "based" :roflmao:
 
I'm driving the alfa dtm in the Coreleague atm. I know older car and tire than gt3 but we raced at zandvoort 13 laps. I used the hards. Some people who used mediums were really losing pace near the end of the race. The hard one doesn't lose much pace during the race unlike the medium which also overheats in certain corners but is a lot quicker the first few laps. Even right before the race i still wasn't completely sure which tire compound was best.
 
BTW: Maybe its me but the Lord is very chilled the last time.
Stefano has a bank account that is overflowing with $$$ and knows that he can walk away from AC at any time. (and after supporting the game for 3+ years nobody would have a valid reason to complain if he did)
Just something to keep in mind, especially when seeing posts like this:
You are right, I should really stop caring... I really should, that's exactly what you deserve.
Hopefully this time I can really manage to do it.
 
- Right now the hard compound is irrelevant. It slowly happened over the course of many updates but in its current grip/wear/temperature state it cannot be used anywhere even under sauna-like conditions.

Last week I did a 1 hour endurance race at Monza. I went with the hard compound, which resulted way better compared to the medium. Yes, the hards where a slower, but not by to much. The main advantage I experience was they were very consistent during their whole stint, while also using them with more freedom in overdriving. What I basically say is that you cannot take the hard compound out of a possibility.
 
Last week I did a 1 hour endurance race at Monza. I went with the hard compound, which resulted way better compared to the medium. Yes, the hards where a slower, but not by to much. The main advantage I experience was they were very consistent during their whole stint, while also using them with more freedom in overdriving. What I basically say is that you cannot take the hard compound out of a possibility.
Interesting to know! I don't have that much experience with the different compounds!
What I read in this whole thread, put together:
- Soft Tyres a bit less "driving on ice" when overheating
- Medium Tyres a bit faster heating up
- Hard Tyres a bit faster heating up
- overall everyone is very happy! Just slighty changes that would make it "perfect" :)
 
Last week I did a 1 hour endurance race at Monza. I went with the hard compound, which resulted way better compared to the medium. Yes, the hards where a slower, but not by to much. The main advantage I experience was they were very consistent during their whole stint, while also using them with more freedom in overdriving. What I basically say is that you cannot take the hard compound out of a possibility.
On a stop & go track like Monza, even at temps above 30° I would be very surprised if the hards can stay within 20 seconds of the mediums pace after an hour. The hards are more consistent than mediums in the sense that they lack the initial punch for the first 5-10 laps but even past 45 minutes they still do not have more grip than the meds, they never do iirc, only their cliff is further, which is near 1h40 mark, 20 minutes more than a full tank.

Maybe on the 911 the hards are a bit closer(still 15 seconds behind) but that's typical and unique Porsche issues.
 

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