Are we ever going to see a fix for the "Centre" FFB issue?

[Msportdan]

Aggressive centre force.....

high oscillation around the center....

floaty/swaying ffb on centre.......

Words that describe what a lot of RRe players have reported about in the last year or so. S3 have also sent us many updates since then, but none hold the key to making this sim be among the greats.

When sector 3 are we gonna see this, ive spent money on this and my issue hasnt been fixed, so can you offer my money back then? I know ive banged on but seriously i am pissed about this problem now, its sooo frustrating. Youve added fanatec support but cant fix this. Also any answers just seem to be in the vain of "others don't have the problem so you shouldn't" or see the useless FFB thread.

This is not my emotions getting the better of me, this is the fact im

.....fed up of waiting for a fix in an update which never seems to come

..... frustrated i bought content in this game that doesnt want to fix issues that been throughout its life span

....... sick of coming on here and getting the same old crap answers from users that either a)dont recognise the problem b)ignore the issue c)just havent a clue.

Please s3 answer this thread please, are you going to fix this FFB issue, once and for all or let this game be forever known for its floaty awful ffb issue?

Regards Dan

(please mods dont lock this thread let s3 have a chance to answer)

 

[James Cook]

I'll have to try that with my Thrustmaster wheel!

 

[theravenousbeast]

I'm just quoting Jim here because noone seemed to respond to his post, I've seen others say the same thing, close the Logitech profiler (as in fully quit it) and you'll have less problems.

Doesn't eliminate the overpowering centering force whatsoever.

More on topic: I know the "floaty" feel has been in the sim since the beginning but what about the centering force? I can't pinpoint posts, but I've seen some people commenting on the FFB, saying that it was great before some patch "ruined it". (EDIT: http://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/major-ffb-oscillations.1977/#post-19457 ... maybe some other patch?)
If it hasn't been, maybe that can help the devs in some way. Personally I got into R3E with the WTCC 13 pack when it was just picking up pace and honestly, until some of you guys commented on this I hadn't really noticed it (maybe because I grip the wheel pretty hard )

 

[theravenousbeast]

I think I've posted this before but it's probably worth doing it again.
Quote from juls' FFB guide for Simbin/ISI sims:
"Adjust wheel behavior in center.

To adjust wheel behavior in center and change steering sensitivity, change "FFB steer force exponent".

Lower value will give you a sharp steering feeling but will introduce oscillations around center like if a centering spring was used, and you will lose details in forces.
Higher values will give you a loose steering in center, but more details in forces.

Tip: to adjust this parameter, check wheel countersteering behavior...when you heavily oversteer and then the rear is brutally coming back and starts oversteering the other way....wheel should countersteer quickly.
Lower the parameter until you are satisfied with wheel countersteering behavior in such situation.
For information, default Simbin value is 0.75 and you should not go lower than 0.5 otherwise the wheel will oscillate violently around center."

Now if I remember correctly, R3E's default rcs file has it at 1.0, which doesn't make sense, considering above line. Maybe it ignores that value, it's hardcoded or something like that.

 

[James Cook]

@theravenousbeast

Very informative, thanks. I've seen this setting mentioned many times but never seen its function explained. So you're saying the default setting could be too low, hence the oscillations?

(If the setting has an effect, that is)

 

[SnappyDEe]

Where is this (steer force exponent) setting?

 

[theravenousbeast]

Where is this (steer force exponent) setting?

It's in the rcs file, in the ControlSet folder in my Documents's R3E directory.

However, I did some short runs with it at different values and it doesn't do anything to the overpowering centering force.

What it DOES seem to affect is the floatiness of the center. Closer to 0.5 makes the wheel tighter around the center but it does seem to drown out the details in the FFB.
I will mess around some more tomorrow, need to get some sleep.

 

[theravenousbeast]

So here's what I ended up today, this is for my brand new DFGT (loving it btw!)
Took some things from the default FFB settings for Power & Glory for GTR2.
IIRC FFB steer force input max should be positive for wheels that don't need reversed FFB.
Feels good around the center and feels decent through the corners. I might mess around with the understeer value. Does not fix the overpowered centering force, that's something hardcoded for sure.

FFB Gain="1.0" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
FFB steer vibe freq mult="1.0" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.0" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB steer vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB steer force average weight="1.0" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
FFB steer force exponent="0.6" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
FFB steer force input max="-11500.0" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="1.0" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
FFB steer force grip weight="0.9" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force front grip exponent="1.0" // Range 0.0 to infinity, recommended: around 1.0. Exponent applied to grip weight.
FFB steer force rear grip exponent="0.0" // Range 0.0 to infinity, recommended: around 1.0. Exponent applied to rear grip loss weight.
FFB steer update thresh="0.0" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
FFB steer friction coefficient="-0.15" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer friction saturation="1.0" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.2" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer damper saturation="1.0" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer force balance mode="0" // Mode for how to add the steering forces together (lateral, load and diff). Acceptable values: 0 = lat + load + diff, 1 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2 + diff^2), 2 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2) + diff, 3 = sqrt(lat^2 + (load + diff)^2), 4 = sqrt((lat + load)^2 + diff^2)
FFB steer load multiplier="0.7" // Multiplier for vertical load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer lateral multiplier="0.35" // Multiplier for lateral forces. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer rack factor="0.0" // How much of the lateral forces comes from steering rack. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer load change exponent="1.0" // Exponent for the change in load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer load change breakpoint="1.0" // Breakpoint (value that will not be changed) for the exponent on the change in load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer spring coefficient="0.0" // Coefficient for steering spring. Range: 0.0 - 1.0
FFB throttle vibe freq mult="0.25" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.0" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point).
FFB throttle vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB brake vibe freq mult="0.9" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.09" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB brake vibe slope="0.25" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.02" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.15" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
FFB rumble strip freq mult="2.0" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.
FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB rumble strip pull factor="-0.5" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.08" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB jolt magnitude="1.0" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.
FFB shift jolt magnitude="0.25" // How strong jolts you get from shifting. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.

 

[James Cook]

Over to you Sector3.

 

[David Cordell]

Maybe I am lucky or maybe it's just the wheel that I have(GT3RSv2) but I have experienced the best FFB out of any sim with R3E since I started driving it again just a few weeks ago. I have no floaty center or crazy oscillations. I used to put GSCE and RF2's FFB at the top of the ffb list but now R3E ffb is standing strong in the #1 spot.

Is anyone with the GT3RSv2 or CSR having these floaty center issues?

It's really a shame so many with the G27 are having problems because the ffb is truly fantastic when cooperating with the wheel the way it should.

 

[theravenousbeast]

Maybe I am lucky or maybe it's just the wheel that I have(GT3RSv2) but I have experienced the best FFB out of any sim with R3E since I started driving it again just a few weeks ago. I have no floaty center or crazy oscillations. I used to put GSCE and RF2's FFB at the top of the ffb list but now R3E ffb is standing strong in the #1 spot.

Is anyone with the GT3RSv2 or CSR having these floaty center issues?

It's really a shame so many with the G27 are having problems because the ffb is truly fantastic when cooperating with the wheel the way it should.

Maybe S3 have found out something and implemented it with the latest patch that added new default profiles for the Fanatec wheel. Would you mind sharing the FFB part of the RCS file from your controller profile?

 

[David Cordell]

Maybe S3 have found out something and implemented it with the latest patch that added new default profiles for the Fanatec wheel. Would you mind sharing the FFB part of the RCS file from your controller profile?

FFB Gain="1.0" // Strength of Force Feedback effects. Range 0.0 to 1.0.
FFB Throttle FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Throttle effects on throttle axis, 1 = throttle effects on steering axis.
FFB Brake FX on steer axis="1" // 0 = Brake effects on brake axis, 1 = brake effects on steering axis.
FFB steer vibe freq mult="1.0" // Controls frequency of steering vibration. Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0, 0.0 disables steering vibration.
FFB steer vibe zero magnitude="0.0" // Magnitude of steering vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB steer vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB steer vibe zero magnitude).
FFB steer vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB steer force average weight="1.0" // How much weight is given to new steering force calculations each frame (0.01 - 1.0). Lower values will smooth out the steering force, but will also add latency.
FFB steer force exponent="1.0" // Steering force output "sensitivity". Range 0.0 to infinity. 0.0 to 1.0 = higher sensitivity, greater than 1.0 = lower sensitivity.
FFB steer force input max="-11500.0" // Recommended: 11500 (-11500 if controller pulls in the wrong direction).
FFB steer force output max="0.95" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
FFB steer force grip weight="1.0" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9. How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force front grip exponent="1.0" // Range 0.0 to infinity, recommended: around 1.0. Exponent applied to grip weight.
FFB steer force rear grip exponent="1.0" // Range 0.0 to infinity, recommended: around 1.0. Exponent applied to rear grip loss weight.
FFB steer update thresh="0.015" // Amount of change required to update steer force/vibe (0.0 - 1.0). Lower values = steering force updated more frequently = lower frame rate.
FFB steer friction coefficient="0.25" // Coefficient to use for steering friction. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer friction saturation="1.0" // Saturation value to use for steering friction. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer damper coefficient="0.25" // Coefficient to use for steering damper. Range: -1.0 to 1.0
FFB steer damper saturation="1.0" // Saturation value to use for steering damper. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer force balance mode="0" // Mode for how to add the steering forces together (lateral, load and diff). Acceptable values: 0 = lat + load + diff, 1 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2 + diff^2), 2 = sqrt(lat^2 + load^2) + diff, 3 = sqrt(lat^2 + (load + diff)^2), 4 = sqrt((lat + load)^2 + diff^2)
FFB steer load multiplier="1.0" // Multiplier for vertical load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer lateral multiplier="0.8" // Multiplier for lateral forces. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer rack factor="0.0" // How much of the lateral forces comes from steering rack. Range: 0 - 1.0
FFB steer load change exponent="1.0" // Exponent for the change in load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer load change breakpoint="1.0" // Breakpoint (value that will not be changed) for the exponent on the change in load on front tires. Range: 0 - infinity
FFB steer spring coefficient="0.0" // Coefficient for steering spring. Range: 0.0 - 1.0
FFB throttle vibe freq mult="1.0" // Scales actual engine frequency to force FFB vibration frequency. Suggested range: 0.10 to 0.50
FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude="0.1" // Magnitude of engine vibration at 0rpm (reference point).
FFB throttle vibe slope="0.0" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB throttle vibe zero magnitude).
FFB throttle vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB throttle vibe update thresh="0.02" // Amount of change required to update throttle vibe (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB brake vibe freq mult="6.0" // Scales actual brake rotational frequency to force feedback vibration frequency.
FFB brake vibe zero magnitude="0.0" // Magnitude of brake vibration at 0mph (reference point).
FFB brake vibe slope="0.2" // Slope of line defining magnitude as a function of frequency (used with FFB brake vibe zero magnitude).
FFB brake vibe wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB brake vibe update thresh="0.05" // Amount of change required to update brake vibe (0.0 to 1.0)
FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.3" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect.
FFB rumble strip freq mult="2.0" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev.
FFB rumble strip wave type="0" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down.
FFB rumble strip pull factor="0.2" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5.
FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.08" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)
FFB jolt magnitude="2.0" // How strong jolts from other cars (or walls) are. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.
FFB shift jolt magnitude="0.7" // How strong jolts you get from shifting. Suggested Range: -2.0 to 2.0.

 

[Brandon Wright]

I too have gone round and round and up and down with the FFB in R3E, using both a GT3 RS V2 wheel and now a T300. I felt the floatiness and the oscillation, it was frustrating enough that I took a break from the game even though I truly love everything else about it. The other night I decided to give it another go and tinker with the FFB settings based on some things I learned while tinkering with pCARS FFB.

What I found is that a very low vertical load and a very high lateral load setting seemed to really have a positive effect on both issues. I believe my vertical is around 60-70 and my lateral is maxed out at 200. I don't recall the other settings, I think the FFB is around 75 and the FFB force effect is around 120. I still have a little bit of floatiness, but the oscillation and centering force are pretty much completely gone. I can take my hands off the wheel going down a straight and the wheel stays centered, the car goes straight......this is something that was unthinkable with my previous settings. I can also feel things from the suspension that I never have felt in this game, it's much more informative and natural feeling.

Again, it's still not perfect, I'm still lacking feel (and sound) from the tires, I don't feel fully connected to the road, still a bit of floatiness, but reducing that vertical load and maxing out the lateral load made a world of difference and allowed me to enjoy driving in R3E for the first time in a long time. It may not work for everyone or every wheel, but I'd recommend giving it a shot.

Cheers to the devs for participating in this conversation and putting up with our whinging. I think we all desperately want to love this game and to play it for many hours every week, but this one issue has prevented us from being able to realize our love for R3E. We only whinge because we care and because we want it to be as great as we think it can be.

 

[theravenousbeast]

I still have a little bit of floatiness, but the oscillation and centering force are pretty much completely gone. I can take my hands off the wheel going down a straight and the wheel stays centered, the car goes straight......this is something that was unthinkable with my previous settings.

Like I said in one of my posts, try changing the FFB steer force exponent value in the rcs file. I found 0.6 to make the center more stiff. 0.75 was a R07/GTR2 default FYI.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Like I said in one of my posts, try changing the FFB steer force exponent value in the rcs file. I found 0.6 to make the center more stiff. 0.75 was a R07/GTR2 default FYI.

I plan on tinkering with them the next time I'm on the game.

The one thing I still have an issue with is when I'm sitting in/driving down pit lane my wheel violently snaps back and forth. As soon as I have control of the car it goes back to normal, but if I don't hold on to the wheel firmly when it's in the pits then the wheel goes absolutely crazy. Does this happen to anyone else, or is it just something screwy with my system?

 

[Andy_J]

Does this happen to anyone else, or is it just something screwy with my system?

Yes Brandon. It does the same for me.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Yes Brandon. It does the same for me.

I guess that's good news, in the sense that it's not just happening to me. I kinda presumed it was just something screwy with my equipment. Out of curiosity, what wheel do you use? I don't recall having this issue on my GT3RS V2, but it's been long enough since I used that wheel that maybe it did and I just don't remember. Or maybe it's just more pronounced on the T300.

 

[James Cook]

I'm using a T300 so I will give your suggestions a go and report back.

 

[Andy_J]

Out of curiosity, what wheel do you use?

t500 mate.

 

[Brandon Wright]

t500 mate.

So, I wonder if this is just a Thrustmaster issue or if it happens to all wheels?

Does anyone else get violent oscillations from the wheel when you're in pit lane?

 

[Kurupt CDN]

I get it with a tx tho not violently, mine slowly starts rotating to one side than flops back to the other side and slowly back again. I can stop it by lightly holding the wheel until I leave the pits but it's still annoying and I am afraid of leaving my rig for a moment and one of my toddlers sticking there hand in it while it's doing this.