AMD Ryzen For Simracing?

[Terry Rock]

Right, I'm hoping to pick a few minds on this one. Just built a new system (with old GPU).
R5 3600
DDR4 3600 Cl18 (vengance LPX)
B450 MSI Tomahawk MAX

Now, XMP works to get 3600CL18, but any changes from the specs given on the Ryzen DRAM calculator causes no-boot or stuck with the CPU debug light on. Got a feeling I need to update the BIOS (though MSI's live update says its on the latest, its actually on the original!) as 3 updates ago was a changelog for 'better memory compatability).

BUT...it seems I have lucked out on the Silicon Lottery, 4.35Ghz all core boost at 1.24v...and still testing. Max CPU temp is 56c so far (240mm AIO). I dont really want to loose the clockability if its down to the BIOS, but at the same time, is a better timed memory going to make more difference? (Cas latency maybe dropped to 17 or 16 from 18).

Your opinions please!

Tightening memory timing on AMD-based systems has proven extremely positive for me...even with inexpensive RAM.
After replacing my R5-2600x chip with the current R5-3600x, I purchased 32GB of no-frills TimeTec DDR4-3600 on Amazon.
The plan was to use it in an entertainment PC build with that spare 2600.
It is an absolute bare bones, no heat-spreaders, no RGB kit but it was also only $119.
I did not need any of the 'bells and whistles' because I already had a few Vantec HS laying around...and because my case has non-transparent side covers.
The original timings of CL18,22,22,42 were tightened to CL15,19,19,36 and the effect was a massive improvement in both speed and smoothness.
I ran 20 hours of Memtest86+ ...not a single error.
I can run a full compliment of cars in ACC with almost all settings at epic and it is smooth and very fast.
So good is the performance, that I've actually kept that RAM in my main PC.

 

[robt100]

What RAM are you using Terry? Apart from XMP profiles my PC will accept no kind of overclocking on the memory! Even the safe preset on the DRAM calculator just throws it into an unable to boot loop that needs resetting the BIOS via the jumper.

 

[RasmusP]

What RAM are you using Terry? Apart from XMP profiles my PC will accept no kind of overclocking on the memory! Even the safe preset on the DRAM calculator just throws it into an unable to boot loop that needs resetting the BIOS via the jumper.

Probably not what would be labeled as "good advice", but der8auer did some longtime tests with ram voltage to proof what he thought (studied electrical engineering):
Even 1.8v are no problem at all.

So my "advice": did you try to increase the ram voltage quite a bit?
Like instead 1.5v or whatever the default is for your ram, pump it to 1.65v

 

[robt100]

Default is 1.35v, had it up to 1.5v, still wont even boot, just instant power-cycle, at first it would finally reboot with the error screen to go to BIOS, but after that it just sat with the CPU debug LED lit. Which is a little odd, but I guess it could be to do with AGESA Compatability errors?

 

[RobertR1]

Don’t run non bdie at 1.5v or above.

 

[robt100]

This is Micron E/H die I believe, so yeah, 1.5v is definitely pushing the limits!

 

[Terry Rock]

What RAM are you using Terry? Apart from XMP profiles my PC will accept no kind of overclocking on the memory! Even the safe preset on the DRAM calculator just throws it into an unable to boot loop that needs resetting the BIOS via the jumper.

I am running a brand called TimeTec.
On checking Amazon today, it is actually at $118 for 32 GB of DDR4-3600 (2x16).
It has a nice look with black circuit boards.
I do not run XMP profiles or PBO...instead going straight to memory speed of 3600 MHz and then adjusting timings under the DRAM advance menu.
As I said before, this is no frill RAM...which does not affect the performance.
I actually ran it without the heat-spreaders for that 20 hour test mentioned above.
I'm a stickler for good soldering and it was some of the best I've seen on a circuit board...no cold-soldering, etc...

 

[EsxPaul]

Thanks for that information @Terry Rock

I'd never heard of that brand before but after reading your post I found them on Amazon UK. Their prices are the best I've seen yet

 

[Terry Rock]

Thanks for that information @Terry Rock

I'd never heard of that brand before but after reading your post I found them on Amazon UK. Their prices are the best I've seen yet

I'd never heard of them before either.
I figured for $119 buck for an entertainment PC (which would never be overclocked), it wouldn't be a big deal if it did not work out....considering the low cost.
I was even more impressed once I got it in hand and started to examine it.
I was doubly impressed, when I called them for permission to remove a sticker to place the heat spreader and an actual human answered the phone in two rings.
They were extremely helpful and I had nothing but good things from customer service.
The RAM has not missed a single beat and I use it not just for gaming but for video transcoding and everything else under the sun.

 

[Durge Driven]

Adrenalin 2020 Edition 20.2.2 out

https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-2-2

Geforce 442.50 and Samsung NvME v3.3 and W10 updates ....busy week
edit: ......... also AMD-Ryzen-Master v2.1.0.1472

 

[BernL]

Looking at Ryzen 3950X here? Asus motherboard, not sure yet witch board? Intel all my life , but had enough.

 

[Case_]

Sure hope you're not looking at it primarily for gaming, unless you really don't know what to do with all the money you wade through at home up to your knees.

 

[Durge Driven]

Looking at Ryzen 3950X here? Asus motherboard, not sure yet witch board? Intel all my life , but had enough.

Here CPU is $1,200 + AU
May as well get a Crosshair and bleeding edge ram ... i guess

Choice is Formula and Hero but for mine over the top for a primary gaming tower

Personally I like Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master $100 cheaper then Hero and has 3 x M2 + 6 x Sata
Drop in 3 matching M2 lol 3-6TB = no need for Sata with their messy leads

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/46917/gigabyte-aorus-m-2-nvme-pcie-gen4-ssd-1tb

https://www.pccasegear.com/products/46918/gigabyte-aorus-m-2-nvme-pcie-gen4-ssd-2tb

Both Crosshair have 8 x Sata but only 2 X M2 ...really odd setup for mine for top end

Serious note for gaming you only need mid range Samsung M2s

 

[Durge Driven]

Sure hope you're not looking at it primarily for gaming, unless you really don't know what to do with all the money you wade through at home up to your knees.

Money to burn I would like something like this
Independent dual system Gaming / Everyday / Sim Server with 1 PSU

click twice....


2nd system CPU should be 3400G but were sold out
Kraken I detest the software but I don't like these "bright lights" AIO
4 x 1TB drives you only live once

For 2nd system you could put a X570 iTX Auros with say 3600 CPU for extra work cache then add second GPU why not a AMD 5600 to mix it up and of course another riser cable, case supports dual riser as well ( best case I have owned )

 

[Trebormoore84]

Personally I like Gigabyte X570 Aorus Master $100 cheaper then Hero and has 3 x M2 + 6 x Sata
Drop in 3 matching M2 lol 3-6TB = no need for Sata with their messy leads

I have a X570 Aorus Master and a 3950x on my CAD 3D rendering workstation. Best quality MB i've ever purchased, and half the cost of the top end Ultra board. 12+2 phase VRM. Easily achieves 10,000+ points in R20 with 3200 C16 ram, custom manual overclock of 4.4ghz on CCX 1 and 2, 4.25ghz on CCX 3 and 4 on 1.35v. I sold a Threadripper 24core setup to get this instead as it wasn't good enough for real time rendering. I would say though a board like this with 14 phase VRM is only worth getting for 12+ cores.

Absolutely burns through the Vectorworks model renders, used to have to wait for almost 10 mins on a 7700k, now it's like less than 2 for the same render. Don't use it for gaming much but real time rendering programs run the same as games do so its relevant. This board achieves 25-50mhz better overclocks compared to the Aorus ITX x570 Pro Wifi that I also have, tested using the same 3950x chip, this ITX board has a much weaker 6+2 VRM for multicore but still excellent quality VRM and a great quality board.

On dual systems, I custom DIY built one (for work and play) all custom watercooled, personally I wouldn't recommend building a dual system it's not an easy thing to setup even in the massive 1000D case that I'm running. Its really tough planning the system and making sure parts do not clash. I'd run 2 machines if i had to do it again after all the trouble.
I'm running 2 Radeon Vii (one for CAD and the other for realtime rendering on a seperate monitor). Radeon Vii is a meh card for gaming, but it's by far the cheapest way to get monster 16gb VRAM for massive CAD files without having to buy a pro card.
The 2nd Radoen Vii just barely fits behind the 2080ti.
So the VRMs on the ITX at the bottom get quite toastie at about 50-55 degrees idle, as the ventilation below the two gpus is poor / non existent. Although this is probably because the GPUs are both watercooled with no fan airflow in that area. But then that CPU never has to do all core workloads so it's fine really.

Maintenance and upgrading is a real PITA, but i've learned the correct process draining the loops it's not so bad. Also got quite good at custom bending PETG tubing, also connecting and controlling 22 fans is not easy.

Corsair 1000D Case dual system.

X570 Aorus Master
AMD 3950x w/EKWB Monoblock.
64gb Corsair 3200 Vengeance LPX RAM
2x Radeon Vii w/ EKWB
1TB Samsung 960 Pro SSD
2tb Corsair MB510 SSD
Corsair HX1200i PSU

Sim / Gaming (at base of case)
Aorus X570 Itx Pro Wifi
3800x w/EKWB Supremacy block.
32gb G.skill Trident Neo 3600 16-16-16-36 RAM.
Zotac 2080ti Arctic Storm
1TB Aorus PCIE 4.0 SSD.
2TB Samsung QVO SSD.
Corsair SF750 PSU

All watercooled with 2x loops custom hardline, 2x Blackice 420 GTX radiators to the CAD system. 1x Blackice 460 GTS radiator for the gaming loop.

Obviously this is all way overkill for simracing and work, and is more a enthusiasts dream build.
There were times I wanted to pull all my hair out, especially when something fails in a tucked away place (for example a NVME SSD under the ITX MB). You have to rip much of the build apart.

 

[Ruttman98]

Your input on an "old-new" combo of a new AMD 3900X paired with a 1080ti, please.

Possible hardware shortages due to the coronavirus is pushing to make the dive into a PC build for the first time. There were some amazing buys on REFURBISHED i7-7700k / GTX1080ti watercooled Corsair Ones ($1300 USD) but i waited too long . . .

Plan B was to build an i7-7700k with an Ebay-sourced used $425-$475 1080ti. I want to run 27-in. 1080p triples--nothing exotic Hz-wise, and I don't want the reported hassles associated with the 5700XT. The 1080ti impresses me as the best card I can afford, especially with only incremental GPU advances availble at this writing.

I am pretty much sold on AMD Ryzen performance for CPU value and started investigating the 3600X and 3700X, which led me to the 12-core 3900X which can be had for $400USD. Although this PC had been planned as an exclusively sim RACING build, the impressive 3D rendering capabilities of the 3900X have me wanting to explore modeling for sims.

Regardless of which AMD CPU i select, I have decided the plunk down the extra cash for an X570 MB as it can be used if I want to do a CPU upgrade. I also plan an ATX case to facilitate cooling options.

I have learned about the AMD preferred RAM speeds (3200 appears to be best) and reading your suggestions for storage while educating myself about the finer points of SSDs, but am also curious about sizes and specific recommendations. I want to run historic cars and tracks and have a Seagate 4TB HDD locked in for $80USD.

QUESTIONS

1) With PC components clocking in around $1800USD, which AMD CPU would you select for this build based on the above? Would you shoot low for a 3600 and save some $ now anticipating a future CPU upgrade?

2) I am concerned about AMD cooling requirements but would prefer to avoid watercooling. Who is happily running the 3600 / 3700X / 3900X air cooled? Ambient temps are not an issue as the basement location only ranges from 55-75F.

3) Any strongly held suggestions for a X570 MB? I will be adding tactile so nice audio features would be a nice bonus. I have looked at many from $150-250USD but don't want to needlessly overspend and I don't plan to overclock the system. I do want future looking features like PCIe 4 and prefer a USB-C port. I have been advised to wait for the MSI Tomahawk X570 for approx $190USD, but this would make it difficult to test the used 1080ti.

4) What do the AMD converts and the Intel i7 supporters think of this overall approach?

Thank you for the long read. I have tried to answer anticipated questions as best I can.

Chris

 

[Alex Townsend]

Hi, always a great 'problem' to have shopping for new PC parts. I love it!

1) the 3600 is a darn fine CPU and it ran games flawlessly. I only upgraded to a 3800x due to wanting to produce videos and streaming at some point.

2) Can't help you here as my ambient room temp is 29-30 degrees in my man cave. Outside temps are between 32-34 so I had to water cool.

3) my build is on a B450 Gaming pro Carbon. Its primarily a sim/gaming machine so I didn't bother with the expense of an x570. A lot of people appear to use the Gigabyte boards for decent builds though and that's what I would have gone for if I had the money.

4) pairing a 1080ti with any CPU I think will yield great results. You can get similar power from a 2070S which also had Ray Tracing for around the same price but for pure grunt I think the 1080ti beats it.

 

[Ruttman98]

Hi, always a great 'problem' to have shopping for new PC parts. I love it!

1) the 3600 is a darn fine CPU and it ran games flawlessly. I only upgraded to a 3800x due to wanting to produce videos and streaming at some point.

2) Can't help you here as my ambient room temp is 29-30 degrees in my man cave. Outside temps are between 32-34 so I had to water cool.

3) my build is on a B450 Gaming pro Carbon. Its primarily a sim/gaming machine so I didn't bother with the expense of an x570. A lot of people appear to use the Gigabyte boards for decent builds though and that's what I would have gone for if I had the money.

4) pairing a 1080ti with any CPU I think will yield great results. You can get similar power from a 2070S which also had Ray Tracing for around the same price but for pure grunt I think the 1080ti beats it.

Thanks for the reply and giving me more to think about! Holding steady on the 1080ti but now waivering on which CPU.

 

[Alex Townsend]

There have been people reporting of using the stock fan with no problems at all though. But I don't know if they are sitting in a small room in the tropics melting most evenings... lol

Like I said, for just gaming the 3600 or 3600x are awesome CPUs for the money. But a 3700x or 3800x would be better if you're gaming, have multiple apps open and streaming/recording the output of the sim and a webcam etc., whilst on some chat or social media app too.

All depends what you will be doing with the system overall really

 

[Ruttman98]

Again, I really appreciate the feedback.

I just watched the 3900X launch review video on Gamers Nexus and Steve says it is definitely overkill unless one is streaming or doing production work.