Cars Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 TT 12 1.0

[rmi_wood]

rmi_wood submitted a new resource:

Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 TT12 by Autodelta - 1973 Alfa Romeo 33 TT12

Alfa Romeo 33/TT12

The Tipo 33 TT 12, is unquestionably one of Alfa Romeo’s most important post-war racing cars. It has everything of a truly exceptional historic racing car...
dominant success, the world’s greatest drivers, a world-famous brand.

Imagine hurtling along, splitting the air at 11,000 rpm as you shift into fifth gear...
the speed, the rush of wind, the exhilaration, she is alive!
(She likes to be caressed... but she likes it rough too!)

Stop dreaming…

[ATTACH...

Read more about this resource...

 

[Davide Nativo]

A suggestion, sound wise you'll be better off using the Ferrari 312 T as donor car, as it uses a 3.0 flat-12 just like this car did

 

[TabsGaming42]

Amazing mod ! ^^ Can you made the 33 and the 33 spider ? Please

 

[Fat-Alfie]

Never gets old...

 

[Davide Nativo]

Never gets old...

Off topic, but no more than someone wishlisting I guess, I actually tried both cars and I can understand Clarkson choice now! I would make the same, and I very much like Ford cars

 

[Kyuubeey]

A few tips:

Quite substantial inaccuracies in suspension geometry. Front subframe is far too low, probably a good 20cm. The UCA mount is around driver neck-level, and the LBJT mount is too high on the wheel for sure. Probably too high LCA mount as well.

Rear RUCA is angled back, should be a lateral rod in the real car. I also suggest to place the rear car-side Y, height points at the same level (Assuming the car has close to 0% antisquat) and adjust the wheel-side rear points to adjust for internal forces being off in vanilla AC, while maintaining curves acceptably. You will need to redo spring setup very likely to maintain handling. Try to estimate the rollbar dimensions and calculate actual rollbar rates.

Tires are way off. Change
FALLOFF_LEVEL=0.94
FALLOFF_SPEED=1

to something like

FALLOFF_LEVEL=0.78 - 0.82
FALLOFF_SPEED=1.7 - 2.3

Real tires have very different lat and long slip curves, but something like this is a good compromise for vanilla. Currently the tires essentially don't lose grip.

Alongside the above change, you should ditch Kunos load sensitivity completely and go with lut curves. I'll make some changes and post you a template. Don't take it as gospel, I don't know super much about this era slicks in this size, but it will be a guide.

There's numerous little other tidbits I won't mention here.

I'll make some changes, test it for sanity then I'll send them to you guys. It'll take some hours still. I think you did an honest effort on the car so I wanna help.

You will likely need to finish up and polish my remains, but I'll sanitize it a bit.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Made some further changes with more calculations (Some of the stuff I told them to do) and sent it the author's way.

Funner car now and also more rooted in reality, I hope they take a look at them and consider the changes!

 

[Chris Kennedy]

Hope to see arch's feedback taken into account. Is the steering wheel size normal? It seems tiny in vr

 

[Davide Nativo]

Hope to see arch's feedback taken into account. Is the steering wheel size normal? It seems tiny in vr

it might be that the driver has not been (most likely) scaled

 

[Kyuubeey]

@Ted Hough

The geometry critique is fair enough, I've redone it all for the upcoming version. I don't know how much of my work will be used, but it should be sensible. I don't think any of my work is in the current one.

We have some disagreements internally; I want to stick to absolute simulation accuracy while the author wishes to shape it a bit more towards impressions or preferences because the car's suspension is not completely ideal and might put off some people, but it's his convert so I'll let him do what he wants. The end experience may vary but I hope the good parts of my work are retained.

In terms of comparing to the rF2 version, what I saw of that car is that it's incredibly off suspension wise. The values in the car are not only difficult to achieve physically, but also extremely unlikely for a setup choice. Just ignore it. It's generally a good idea to look at the *real* car, not at simulated examples. I would believe this is obvious, but apparently not.

I mean, to begin with no tire in rF2 is really acceptable for a serious comparison to reality, so I would suggest to just not look at rF2 period. The model is still not matured enough and results may vary.

 

[Ted Hough]

@Ted Hough

The geometry critique is fair enough, I've redone it all for the upcoming version. I don't know how much of my work will be used, but it should be sensible. I don't think any of my work is in the current one.

Yeah I don't mod, so I'm not aware of how it needs to be done within the Limitations of the various programs. But I can tell it drives oddly from having driven similar stuff in the SVRA/SCCA In real life. These wedge Protos tend to be a bit squishy and slidy and I could tell immediately the front roll centers/subframes were way, way, way too low.

I'm not sure what the limitations are, but I saw your post further up and I hope your improved data is added or used as a reference for some improvements.

 

[chrisracer]

I don't know how to mod, but I thank those who can. Now we have the Ferrari, the Lola and the Alfa. Can anyone do the Mirage and the Matra? Then the WSC for 1973/74 would be complete.

 

[rmi_wood]

rmi_wood updated Alfa Romeo Tipo 33 TT 12 with a new update entry:

update

changelog v0.99f/g
- added physics updates by Arch
- added extra tire compounds
- much aero tweaks
- headlights less yellow
- data packed
- AI tires aligned
- lots of testing and contemplation

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Kyuubeey]

I see it released. I have no idea what exact changes of mine are in the car, so mileage may vary. All of the good ones are mine.

 

[LTLGamer1]

You know, given the engine data Kunos's Ferrari 312T sounds fit this car perfectly.

 

[Davide Nativo]

You know, given the engine data Kunos's Ferrari 312T sounds fit this car perfectly.

And you would need only to listen to any in-car camera recording to understand that they actually have almost the same sound; after all that was why Chiti made the Flat-12 in the first place: to beat Ferrari on their same ground. I don't understand why they stubbornly refuse to change the 33 stradale sound they have, which is completely inappropriate, for this one.

Also, the Veglia Borletti tach is wrong: first, the needle was of a different shape back then, exactly like the one on the Ferrari 312T, and secondly, they ranged from 2 to 12k or from 4 to 14k, there was absolutely no model that scaled from 3 to 13k.

 

[LTLGamer1]

@Davide Nativo Now that you mention it, I do recall listening to sounds of the real car before replacing the sound in AC. Within a few seconds of listening to the sounds I recall thinking "Man, that sounds an awful like the 312T. If the engine.ini data matches to an extent, that'd be great".

Videos:

 

[LTLGamer1]

@rmi_wood That's not so say your mod is bad. If anything, it's just the opposite; I quite like it and the sound issue is a minor one and can be easily fixed.

 

[rmi_wood]

Just to say, I tried the 312T and did not like it so much for this car, clearly the V8 is wrong... but IMHO sounds better.
A sound mod would be great...
I could also change the sound to the 312T in the future.

Lets see

 

[rmi_wood]

About the steering wheel, it might be too small.
You see, the model in rF2 is scaled 13% too big compared to the real car (and the rF2 physics make no sense, and wheelbase 2.7m vs 2.340 ) ((seems Arch used WHEELBASE=2.233448 for some reason)).

The lovely little girl you are caressing in your hands... is a small one, exactly 87% size, but now matches reality (except maybe the wheel)