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AI physics fake?

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
Here's two video MP mode and SP mode, you can see the mp mode every cars have bounces, bumps , roll animations but you can't see it in sp mode (Only players car have). The AI movement very simple and weird. I just don't understand why dev can implement those animation for all cars in mp mode but can't do it for sp mode AI. I have play assetto corsa and the AI physics movement very natural... I had mention this many time but no one responds ... can dev give me an answer about this?

MP mode

SP mode (Replay start at 10:35)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSqwuDmXD28
 

Heppsan

250RPM
Dec 18, 2013
371
126
41
It was really hard to see in your vid, so I went in and watched a replay in R3E.
Can this have something to do with the graphics chosen, just like with shadows?

Cause when I followed an AI car in the replay it was moving just like my car when watching that, so the animation is there alright.
Just not as detailed on all cars at the same time..

Same with shadows, I have them at lowest so it's only my car that shows detailed shadows.
In the replay the AI I followed got the good ones.
 

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
It was really hard to see in your vid, so I went in and watched a replay in R3E.
Can this have something to do with the graphics chosen, just like with shadows?

Cause when I followed an AI car in the replay it was moving just like my car when watching that, so the animation is there alright.
Just not as detailed on all cars at the same time..

Same with shadows, I have them at lowest so it's only my car that shows detailed shadows.
In the replay the AI I followed got the good ones.
AI car - Here the slow motion video show that the car didn't have suspension movement, it just looks like the tire and cars body is not build separately.
 

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
It was really hard to see in your vid, so I went in and watched a replay in R3E.
Can this have something to do with the graphics chosen, just like with shadows?

Cause when I followed an AI car in the replay it was moving just like my car when watching that, so the animation is there alright.
Just not as detailed on all cars at the same time..

Same with shadows, I have them at lowest so it's only my car that shows detailed shadows.
In the replay the AI I followed got the good ones.
Player car - This car is control by player, look at the body movement. Very soft and natural.
 

ouvert

1000RPM
Apr 16, 2014
1,682
638
it is probably just simplyfied to go easy on CPU .. now the question is if it is just an animation or whole physics ..
 

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
If probably just simplyfied to go easy on CPU, why mp mode all cars have full physics animation?
 

shardshunt

100RPM
Jun 1, 2013
198
43
26
it is probably just simplyfied to go easy on CPU .. now the question is if it is just an animation or whole physics ..
correct you wont find a game on the market that doesn't have simplified physics.
I play on a potato computer and i can only handle 6-8 ai cars before my computer goes into meltdown, imagine if the ai had player physics my computer would literally explode.
 

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
correct you wont find a game on the market that doesn't have simplified physics.
I play on a potato computer and i can only handle 6-8 ai cars before my computer goes into meltdown, imagine if the ai had player physics my computer would literally explode.
I believe Assertto corsa AI car didn't have simplified physics, from what i see the AC AI physics animation looks very realistic.

What i need is dev explanation.
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,256
872
It is very likely that the AI do use simplified physics, however, previous Simbin games have not used such simpliified physics that the AI cars do not roll/pitch etc. However, the replay system in previous Simbin titles, unless switched to the highest setting (not default), will not record AI car movement with great detail.

This video I presume was recorded during play rather than from a replay and the AI cars look natural and roll on corners.

 

Andi Goodwin

500RPM
Jul 19, 2010
911
442
As far as i know there are compromises on the Ai , both visual animation and some changes to the player based physics.

Andi
 

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
It is very likely that the AI do use simplified physics, however, previous Simbin games have not used such simpliified physics that the AI cars do not roll/pitch etc. However, the replay system in previous Simbin titles, unless switched to the highest setting (not default), will not record AI car movement with great detail.

This video I presume was recorded during play rather than from a replay and the AI cars look natural and roll on corners.

I really love to watch replay after finish the game, that's why i really care about this.
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,256
872
I really love to watch replay after finish the game, that's why i really care about this.
R3E no longer runs on my PC so I can't give any specific help but if there are options for replay quality, then make sure they are set to maximum.
 

townnet

50RPM
Dec 20, 2013
62
7
43
As far as i know there are compromises on the Ai , both visual animation and some changes to the player based physics.

Andi
Will it improve in the future? I didn't mind if i have to pay for the patch. :)
R3E no longer runs on my PC so I can't give any specific help but if there are options for replay quality, then make sure they are set to maximum.
My pc already run this game with all max setting...
 

shardshunt

100RPM
Jun 1, 2013
198
43
26
previous simbin titles have had simplified physics i know cause when i was tweaking mods there is a diffent set of values for the ai.

asseto corca may not have simplified physics but the ai is no wear near as good as r3e so maybe they need to think about it.
 
Jan 24, 2015
16
0
previous simbin titles have had simplified physics i know cause when i was tweaking mods there is a diffent set of values for the ai.
Yep, I think it's fairly self evident if you have a slider that goes over 100% that the AI performance is faked, isn't it? It sounds a bit like the AI is talking to Alan Sugar "I'm going to give it 110%, Lord Sugar" :D

If you use the free content, say, Saleen at Bridge, the AI are beating the current top leaderboard times but you can follow them (either in replay or by chasing them and pretty much conclude it's faked) compared with loading and following the ghosts from the leaderboards.

It looks like it shares the race 07 / race pro faked qualifying thing to get some quicker "hotlap" times. e.g you can top practise lap time, qualify 12th and then go back to trivially beating them. I don't know what this is supposed to be simulating? IRL, of course, cars tend to be slower at the start of the race because they are full of fuel etc. But clearly if that isn't affecting your times (because of the settings you have) it shouldn't affect their times either.

assetto corsa may not have simplified physics but the ai is no wear near as good as r3e so maybe they need to think about it.
Stefano seems to be rapidly finding and fixing bugs though - and, if you have the CPU oomph to throw at the AI, I think this has a lot of potential. Especially as regards training.

Amongst the bugs he's tweeted about, the AI were picking street tyres (so if you've been beating them on slicks quite easily, that's probably why), they weren't braking properly to avoid hitting the player in some circumstances, he seems to have done work on the start.

You can learn a fair deal just setting the AI in any game to a level where you can comfortably sit on their tail and just drive around behind them, and then upping the slider to get out of that comfort zone.

But of course, if the AI physics is faked you soon reach a point where that breaks down. Where you and the AI are not on level terms. This makes a mockery of any idea that the AI are competitive too, if you're just looking at the laptimes, sure, you can set them to whatever you want, but the idea you are racing them neck and neck in the same car is just an illusion if the physics are faked.

With AI that has the same physics engine and you just have an algorithm that is inputting steering and pedal inputs you can, in theory at least, train with them right up to the true limits of the sim. The other low hanging fruit, of course, would be giving you a computer driver who is consistent, doesn't get tired with whom you can test setup changes (although I suppose that raises questions about driving style affecting setup)

I hope assetto corsa add some features to that end though. It'd be nice to be able to alter the AI performance in game by twiddling a dial, the same way you can alter something like brake balance. It'd be nice to have a hotlap mode where an AI driver is dropped onto the track in front of you as you pass the start / finish for you to chase around (like a ghost)

And then, of course, something to let you compare the laps.
 
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Andi Goodwin

500RPM
Jul 19, 2010
911
442
reading that , you havent spent much time with the ai , racing R3e against them ... or spent time using adaptive ai

Andi
 

Sean Kenney

500RPM
Sep 16, 2014
875
165
44
The AI in very good, I have tried the new games, AC, PC. I don't think anyone comes close to r3e. All are evolving.

As far as the physics go, who knows, I can't really care that much, when the races I get against the AI are so good. I would be worried if they were literally doing the impossible for gain. Some weird things happen, but its the same for pretty much all of the games. None of them are even close to perfect.
 

David Wright

1000RPM
Sep 27, 2009
1,256
872
All AI physics is faked to some extent. Presumably AC has an AI difficulty slider? Some AI drivers are quicker than others? How do you think this is achieved? By altering the AI physics - typically adding or taking away grip.