Action Plan.. who's in?

[Phil Blunt]

remember way way back when piddy said he would be away for a while because he had a job and needed the cash..? well i think he at least owes this community a post after nearly 2 years!
i paid for BTB.. i did what i could to support the developer!

i use this tool a lot.. and i mean a lot, i even understand the need to for piddy to get a day job, but come on the current build is not stable due to the licence issues.

if piddy is to abandon this project he should at the very least release a patch to remove the current DRM, leaving people who have paid for the software free to use it, not a lot to ask, hey?

the BTB web site is due to expire in September we as a community need an action plan for piddy to do one of the following..

1. release a patch to remove the DRM.
very little work programming wise, easy enough to do in a day.

2. release a patch to remove DRM and release the sourcecode so this project my continue.
at least then it might make it to version 1.0

3. update the community, release some sort of better DRM system, continue the project even if very slowly.

so how do we has a community do it?
well from my googling i think piddy is working for a bank, i found his linkdin page.
what we need to try first is for someone local to piddy to go to his house and ask him for an update.
if that fails we contact his at his job.
then if that fails we all join forces in court action. far fetch i know but i think we have grounds.

so who's in?? are you this communities hero?

 

[RC45]

There has never been any problem with the periodic license upgrade requirement.

I have never had a problem with the periodic license update requirment - the point is that if the developer chooses to no longer maintain the license issuing tools and services the time would come when the application stops working.

My contention was that there isn't monetary incentive for him to continue developing BTB.
My mistake was writing something in a "what if" thread.
It won't happen again.

But again - there are not mass demands for UPDATES. The point is about simply maintaining status quo.

 

[Phil Blunt]

hey,
im glad to see we all seem to be on the same page now.. so to speak.
but lets not get silly, no ransoms or community editions of BTB. just a plan of making contact with brendon for an update on the status of BTB and the online license system.
surely someone lives close enough to brendon to take a drive out?

edited to add.. i imagine rf2 support will be via 3dsimed. also the web domain would auto renew if piddys payment details are the same on the hosts website.. but after 2/3 years i doubt it.

 

[R Soul]

I'm not sure that visiting his house would be a good idea. In my opinion a letter would be better. He'd be able a consider his response in his own time, rather than having to come up with something on the spot.

 

[eddieh]

I'm not sure that visiting his house would be a good idea. In my opinion a letter would be better. He'd be able a consider his response in his own time, rather than having to come up with something on the spot.

Well I've had no response from letter, email or fax and am now considering my options with regard to legal issues. If I proceed I will upset a lot of people and other things which I will not divulge here, if I don't proceed I have software that I have paid to use that I cannot through no fault of mine.

 

[Phil Blunt]

i think if someone could pop around for a quick chat that wouldn't cause no harm. legal action sounds a bit too much tbh.

his linkedin previously said he was working for BNP Paribus, but has since been updated with an end date of april 2011 (previously said present). http://au.linkedin.com/pub/brendon-pywell/12/15b/763

maybe this is a sign of a return.. or more global jobs cuts ??

 

[Alex Kyriak]

"Popping round" and legal action are a bit heavy IMHO. Do it through proper correspondence, do it with a bit of respect and cordiality. I wouldn't want to be tracked down by someone who happened to live on my continent who found my name and address from a series of internet searches, online forums and social networks... That would frankly be a little bit freaky.....

Whatever my opinion on the various matters connected to this discussion - and there are several strands to this depending on which way you look at it - we have to respect the fact that people should be entitled to their privacy. I'm sure it's been done a few times (and has, according to Ryan C), but someone in a position of "authority" - ie, RD - should send an email to Piddy stating the situation in a summarised way. I'm sure he's a decent enough guy to at least make a statement, or at least to have prepared or considered one to issue once he's ready to do so. EDIT: And I'm sure he must still follow, at least from time to time - the discussions that take place on these forums.

 

[RC45]

Well I've had no response from letter, email or fax and am now considering my options with regard to legal issues. If I proceed I will upset a lot of people and other things which I will not divulge here, if I don't proceed I have software that I have paid to use that I cannot through no fault of mine.

See, this is pretty funny.

You are going to retain the services of a solicitor and PI to track someone down on the other side fo the world to "enforce" your right to us a $75 piece of software.

If I was Piddy I would let you drag it on till your expenses ran into the tens of thousands of dollars then refund your money - the original purchase price.

Afterall, that is the extent of your damage and all he is responsible for.

 

[Kyle Puttifer]

Brendon is on Twitter.
@BTrackBuilder

 

[eddieh]

See, this is pretty funny.

You are going to retain the services of a solicitor and PI to track someone down on the other side fo the world to "enforce" your right to us a $75 piece of software.

If I was Piddy I would let you drag it on till your expenses ran into the tens of thousands of dollars then refund your money - the original purchase price.

Afterall, that is the extent of your damage and all he is responsible for.

Not funny at all. You send me $75 dollars, I'll send you a piece of software that you can only use for a limited time, completely ignore you and any other users then see what your next move is.
I have repeatedly tried to contact Brendon via all possible means apart from 'popping round' as he's the other side of the world. I have been very polite and courteous at all times but have had absolutely no reply. That is unacceptable.
The work of 'finding' has already been done and it won't cost me a penny... it all depends on who is in your family.

 

[Raido]

Eddieh is right though. No matter if it's a $75 or a $750 piece of software, it's still supposed to work. And if it blocks you out because something changed in your hardware or some server is down... It *doesn't* work.

Server-based licensing systems will always be broken because it'll never work long-term (never ever trust "The Cloud"!).

Regardless of whether legal action is the right way to tackle this, if it doesn't work as advertised then paying customers have a right to complain and call for action. Which is what this is, in the end.

 

[RC45]

Not funny at all. You send me $75 dollars, I'll send you a piece of software that you can only use for a limited time, completely ignore you and any other users then see what your next move is.
I have repeatedly tried to contact Brendon via all possible means apart from 'popping round' as he's the other side of the world. I have been very polite and courteous at all times but have had absolutely no reply. That is unacceptable.
The work of 'finding' has already been done and it won't cost me a penny... it all depends on who is in your family.

And again - it doesnt matter who or what you tink you are - your DAMAGES are limtied to the cost of the software, which is all you would be entitled to recoup.

Here are the rems you agreed to when you purchased BTB:

"Bobs Track Builder is now distributed as a trial demo, that when unlocked using a license, will allow you to run indefinitely.

Purchasing a Single User License entitles you to run Bobs Track Builder on one PC. The license will be created specifically for your Motherboard and CPU and will be valid for the number of months that you specify when submitting the HardwareId.txt file.

The license will be removed from the BTB website automatically 7 days prior to the expiry date. You will then be able to sumbit a new license for either the same PC or a new PC.

Make sure you are running the latest BTB version before running the HID.exe. "

Take note of the underlined text.

There are your terms - you agreed to them.

Case closed mate.

If you do get hard-arsed about it, Piddy only need return your $75 and your claim is satisfied.

Eddieh is right though. No matter if it's a $75 or a $750 piece of software, it's still supposed to work. And if it blocks you out because something changed in your hardware or some server is down... It *doesn't* work.

Server-based licensing systems will always be broken because it'll never work long-term (never ever trust "The Cloud"!).

Regardless of whether legal action is the right way to tackle this, if it doesn't work as advertised then paying customers have a right to complain and call for action. Which is what this is, in the end.

See the license text above you agreed to when you purchased the product.

100 page EUL agreements only exist because of folks such as yourself. You force the dev to wory about things other than the software at hand.

 

[Raido]

Case closed mate.

I don't think so mate. Where I come from, and AFAIK in large parts of the world, EULA's aren't necessarily binding in law (it depends on the court, and what a EULA states can not be in contravention of overriding European consumer laws, for instance). In general, and in law, your software is still supposed to work as advertised. Just because it says something buried deep in some EULA doesn't mean the customer is wrong when his bought ware doesn't work - not in a legal sense, and not in a real sense.

And especially when it says "run indefinitely" after purchase, that *definitely* wouldn't hold up in court if your license servers aren't working.

 

[RC45]

I don't think so mate. Where I come from, and AFAIK in large parts of the world, EULA's aren't necessarily binding in law (it depends on the court, and what a EULA states can not be in contravention of overriding European consumer laws, for instance). In general, and in law, your software is still supposed to work as advertised. Just because it says something buried deep in some EULA doesn't mean the customer is wrong when his bought ware doesn't work - not in a legal sense, and not in a real sense.

And especially when it says "run indefinitely" after purchase, that *definitely* wouldn't hold up in court if your license servers aren't working.

And again? What damages have you suffered?

$75 (or what ever you paid).

Instead of barking like a little chihuahua, why not try a constructive approach?

 

[eddieh]

When did I ever say I wanted multi-million damages? I didn't. A fix to the software or return of monies, that is all.
You mention the underlined text about creating the HID.txt file. I did that, set the number of months, (four in my case), and uploaded the file. My hardware HAS NOT changed in any way but the software tells me otherwise. There IS a fault with the software.
And as to your line of "Instead of barking like a little chihuahua, why not try a constructive approach?", have you not bothered to read what I said? So what is your constructive approach then? I have exhausted all possible avenues of contact and hope of finding a remedy or a request to refund but to no avail.

 

[Wayne Reed]

Piddy did say along time ago he was not having any thing more to do with BTB because of all the cracked copy's out there. He said he was feed up with putting in all that work for people to steal it and send it around the net.

I don't really see what all the court crap is going to do.

But what you all are missing is the one big thin and I seem to be the only one to see it. Piddy would have had to have copy right on the software well he says on the site he has. Has any one had a look at when that dies and also under law in the uk if you with draw away from stuff like that you lose copy right. ( And yes I have looked into the law on that)

So my thinking is this if Piddy no longer wants to help us then we find what is going on with him and copy right and change things and make it open sorce and put he name in the credits as he gave what we have now.

 

[Alex Kyriak]

Doesn't copyright remain until 70 years after the death of the author, or something like that? (Unless it's deliberately released)

 

[Raido]

Instead of barking like a little chihuahua, why not try a constructive approach?

Oh, your idea of constructive approach is being insulting?

Says a lot, really. Woof woof.

Still doesn't change the situation.

Doesn't copyright remain until 70 years after the death of the author, or something like that?

I think in software it's a little bit different from that.

 

[Pete Mull]

License Agreement

Is this the sum total of the licensing agreement or is there more when I go to purchase a license.

Purchasing a Single User License entitles you to run Bobs Track Builder on one PC. The license will be created specifically for your Motherboard and CPU and will be valid for the number of months that you specify when submitting the HardwareId.txt file.

Surely there should be a legally binding agreement that outlines the duties and responsibilities of each of the parties that are the subject of the agreement.

Pete

 

[woochoo]

Not that I know what OS any of you are running but I think you have more grounds for annoyance if you're running windows XP rather than windows Vista or 7.

source:http://www.bobstrackbuilder.com/purchase/purchase_btbpro.aspx

Prerequisites:

• Windows XP (32 bit)
• A shaders 2.0 capable video card
• The latest DirectX 9.0c drivers. Note: there are several version of 9.0c, get the latest ones!
• Microsoft .Net Framework 2.0 (it will be downloaded during the installation process if it's not already installed)

source: http://www.bobstrackbuilder.com/faq.aspx

Does it work with Windows Vista or Windows 7?

Maybe. Vista/Windows 7 is not listed officially as a BTB supported operating system. I do not yet own either and hence cannot test for myself. I have been told by some people that it does work and by others that there are some minor problems. Try the demo for yourself to see if it works for you. Also see this thread for some possible help.

The most common issue stems from a lack of permissions on files in the BTB folder. Make sure you are running BTB with Administrator rights.

clearly the hardware trouble with win7 works sometimes and not others. recently a mate of mine was running BTB fine for a few months in 7 and now it has locked without any hardware changes.

It would be helpful if Brendon updated the page with clearer warnings and a notice that the program is apparently no longer under development or supported. What would be most useful is if he could reset an activation period if something bunged up. until then the only thing i can do is get one-month licenses and hope for no hardware failures (i'm on XP).

 

[Pete Mull]

Surely the best Action Plan would be to draw up details of actions we all need to protect the investment we all will/have been making in time and money building 'free' tracks for the sim games we like.

I'm just questioning whether the author of the software has any rights, where people have paid for licenses, to prevent them using other methods for ensuring that there licensed software will run uninterupted. There is no proper licensing agreement and the installation on ongoing support is nonexistent.

I'm certainly going to make sure that any investment I make in time and money is protected before I purchase and use BTB otherwise it is just a waste of my time and money.

Pete

Just downloaded the software with these terms and conditions - think that says everything particularly my responsibilities:

1. The copyright in this software is owned by Brendon Pywell.
2. No part of this software, whether modified or not, may be distributed for any fee or charge whatsoever without the written permission of the copyright owner.
3. Any tracks built using Bobs Track Builder that are used for commercial purposes must include a reference to www.bobstrackbuilder.net as the tool used to build it.
4. This software is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind. The entire risk as to the quality and performance of this software is with the user. Should this software prove defective, the user assumes the cost of all necessary repair or correction.
5. In no event will the copyright owner be liable for any damages, arising out of the use of this software including, but not limited to, loss of data or data being rendered inaccurate.