Action Plan.. who's in?

remember way way back when piddy said he would be away for a while because he had a job and needed the cash..? well i think he at least owes this community a post after nearly 2 years!
i paid for BTB.. i did what i could to support the developer!

i use this tool a lot.. and i mean a lot, i even understand the need to for piddy to get a day job, but come on the current build is not stable due to the licence issues.

if piddy is to abandon this project he should at the very least release a patch to remove the current DRM, leaving people who have paid for the software free to use it, not a lot to ask, hey?

the BTB web site is due to expire in September we as a community need an action plan for piddy to do one of the following..

1. release a patch to remove the DRM.
very little work programming wise, easy enough to do in a day.

2. release a patch to remove DRM and release the sourcecode so this project my continue.
at least then it might make it to version 1.0

3. update the community, release some sort of better DRM system, continue the project even if very slowly.

so how do we has a community do it?
well from my googling i think piddy is working for a bank, i found his linkdin page.
what we need to try first is for someone local to piddy to go to his house and ask him for an update.
if that fails we contact his at his job.
then if that fails we all join forces in court action. far fetch i know but i think we have grounds.

so who's in?? are you this communities hero?
 
listen guys i dont t know why people are getting on my back for wanting to get some sort of update (software or verbal) from piddy, i paid for BTB and the software would be totally usable if piddy provided an updated drm system. if he is abandoning the project anyway i see now loss for him to remove the current system.
i am just fully aware that the site is due to expire soon, not only that people are still buying BTB so piddy must know that he owes the community an update, even if just verbally.

[snip]

I was just wondering, how do youknow Brendan is going to abandon BTB?

Just because his registration of the Domain Name is going to expire in Septemeber does not mean he is not planning to renew and maintain status quo vizaviz purchase/license support.

Or have you received some type of notification that is all over in September?

I am just wondering if maybe things are not as dire as you may imagine.

:)
 
@ mianiak, im sorry if you have taken it that way, i am just trying to seek the help of fellow community members who feel the same. i did not intend to offend, just the topic is in regards to BTB and an update from its developer not alternative tools, but thanks for you advice.

I was just wondering, how do youknow Brendan is going to abandon BTB?

Just because his registration of the Domain Name is going to expire in Septemeber does not mean he is not planning to renew and maintain status quo vizaviz purchase/license support.

Or have you received some type of notification that is all over in September?

I am just wondering if maybe things are not as dire as you may imagine.

:)


TBH i dont, but since there has been no update since sept 2009 one can only be lead to believe that the site will go when the domain is up for renewal.

@ kyle,, that would be great, it would show that Brendon is planning on coming back to BTB.
 
since there has been no update since sept 2009 one can only be lead to believe that the site will go when the domain is up for renewal.

That's a very pessimistic attitude it seems to me. After all, a domain name doesn't cost much, and no website would mean no more sales of BTB for Brendon.

From what I remember of him from the early days, I'm sure he wouldn't just drop the website and leave everyone without a license.
 
If you can't afford 3dmax, then you would use Blender, which is an alternative, I pointed that out, you must have missed it...

It's an alternative, yep, but not a very useful one. Phil did have a couple of good points there, 3DS Max is wayyyy too expen$ive for a smalltime private user, not targeted at building sim race tracks, and overkill in terms of functions.

Blender would be better there but its interface - like most Windows- or Linux-based programs - is truly awful (I'm a Mac user and we know something about how an interface is actually supposed to work, as opposed to being in the way).

With regard to the current situation, as I've said multiple times I never found the current licensing system acceptable at all; like some people said, server-based continual renewal of licensing is unworkable in the long term and will leave you in the lurch sooner or later. Servers just don't stay up long enough. Even bigtime companies drop support for their software after a limited number of years. Either the program should be de-DRM'd by the author and converted to a normal shareware program (pay once and use without limits; perhaps pay extra for major updates);

or, if the worst case scenario comes to pass and the author never bothers with it again since he'd more like to focus on work or other projects, it should be de-DRM'd by the community (oh yes I said it - but ONLY if there are no other options left anymore) , reverse-engineered, taken up by the selfsame community and be revived/updated as a community project. That has happened before, it wouldn't be the first time.

It's either gonna end in a lawsuit or it's gonna be updated - one way or the other. That's my prediction anyway.
 
@ mianiak, im sorry if you have taken it that way, i am just trying to seek the help of fellow community members who feel the same. i did not intend to offend, just the topic is in regards to BTB and an update from its developer not alternative tools, but thanks for you advice.

Apology accepted and I too am sorry for jumping on you. We are all in the same boat, I was just offering advice on a plan B and if at any time anyone here needs to make use of that plan B, I will be willing to help anyone with it.
 
Just thinking about this, what if Brendon does renew the website? Then BTB isn't completely abandoned.

It's a fair question. We seem to be second guessing his next move. Maybe he's busy making an Uber-BTB for RF2....

In terms of what action can we take... presumably the first step is to make positive contact with Piddy, find out his position. Maybe someone from RD should do this? Presumably there has been a relationship established in the past when the transfer of the BTB forums to RD was put into place, and for RD to become the "official" support forum.

If he does renew the site, and therefore can still draw income from sales, but maintains the silence, and lack of updates and support -two things that are still currently promised to new users on the website, incidentally - then that would be particularly galling, even if we could keep renewing licences and making tracks. It irks me that new users can still buy the software whilst being promised "support and regular updates". I don't wish to sound deliberately negative, but i find this questionable. This from the BTB website:

I am working on Bob's Track Builder Pro expanding the features and making the existing ones even easier to use. If you buy today consider as a pre-purchase for the new versions as they become available.

The once-only purchase will give you all updates for free as I plan to release new features every few months.





Here's a partial list of things that will be added for BTB Pro owners:
  • Expansion Packs (XPacks) with more Objects, Materials and Textures.
  • Easier editing of the cross section in the 3d window.
  • Speed improvements.
  • Grid positioning.
  • More Tutorial Videos
All of this is bound to take a while to program so incremental updates to owners is a must. I love creating BTB and am dedicated to making this the best product I can regardless of any commercial success or failure. I hope your support will allow me to spend more time developing BTB into the tool of your track making dreams!

I just wish he'd make some sort of statement either way. Do we know if he visits / reads these forums, as a guest, under pseudonym or otherwise?


I love BTB, best piece of software I've ever bought. I would hate for it all to just fizzle out. I too hope he wouldn't just drop everone: as Chub posted below, from what we knew of him from the early days he looked after us very well.
 
As someone who is new to RD, RBR and very soon, BTB could I add my comments to this thread. As far as I can see BTB works as it is (I know it needs a update/upgrade) and we are able to create additional tracks for (in my case) RBR. The licensing has its problems but in principle it works. So, having said that, then the only problem we appear to have is the license renewal if the BTB site is taken down.

Personally I can't see that happening as it is still a revenue source for the author of the software and it would be foolish to make the software unavailable for those wishing to pay for a license.

Would it not make sense for an official of RD or Rallyesim to make contact with the software owner and offer to hold a backup of the website in the event of the demise of the current domain name. Most of the support from the product comes from this forum and it would make sense for the moderator on this forum to be the 'go between' the developer and the users.

Also would it not be realistic for license holders to make a annual license fee renewal to ensure the continuation of license renewals. I'm sure all of those who have bought a license will still have the details of the developers PayPal account - wouldn't it show a great deal of commitment to the developer if license holders were to make a small donation to the developer to show their willingness to give continued support to the developer and perhaps encourage him to find a way of making the product more stable and to give its license holders more security for the future.

I'm off to download the software and once I'm sure it will function correctly on my other machine, I will purchase a license to demonstrate my support for the software and it's developer.

Does anyone know for instance, how many licenses have been bought in the last twelve months?

Pete
 
It's a matter of economics.

Probably be pretty generous to say that 1000 of us are waiting with baited breath (or worse) for the next BTB upgrade.

Even then, about 950 of us are being pretty silent about it. But let's just say that a thousand of us REALLY want an upgrade sooo bad, that we would be willing to pay 10 bucks for a yearly upgrade.

So... for 10 grand, Brendon is suppose to quit his job (abandoning himself and family), and write upgrades, debug, and solve xp, vista, and Win7 compatibility issues .... on a very usefull tool he created several years ago. For us.

If 10 thousand isn't at least what he's paid per month presently, he should be looking for a different bank to write code for.

I've been writing code since dinosaurs walked the earth (our storage medium was punched paper tape). On big projects like BTB, one month is about how long it would take just to get back into it again, and know where you wrote things, what they do, etc.... after this long away.

Even with intelli sense, the size and scale of everything you can do with the .net framework is mind boggling with the contemporary ms compiler suites. Soon... due to the recent parallel extention additions to the framework, your computers will start using more than one core to get things done. We will all be demanding that our favorite tool makers rewrite their code to utalize ALL of our cores ...

I can see Brendon spending at least 16 hours a day, 7 days a week to 'run' BTB as a product. The only way that makes any financial sense, is if it were subsidised by a larger company who can sell more of their product if inexpensive modding tools are available (eg rF2 etc..).

Even with comparatively few modding tools available, rF 1 really took off. I'm guessing that ISI dosen't feel they need to provide anything but the minium in tools again. Max and Ps are avail as a complete modding solution, and hopefully rF2 and its children will eventually allow us to use more of Max's (and dx11's) functionality. If ISI dosen't, someone else will.

So far as I can tell, BTB is still the only tool that dosen't crash when editing a 50 km track's AIW file. Everything else can be done with free or other inexpensive tools.

It would be wonderful to see BTB carry on. As discussed, it is already protected from dissapearing completely.

How many of you who work full time would be willing to quit your job, and create a usefull modding tool for all 1000 of us... for about 1/12 of what you are now earning, and then free from then on?

When can you start?
 
We dont want him to do all that, we just want him to relax the licencing a bit if he's not going to take it any further.It's way too stringent. Imagine the poor guy who buys BTB in August, a month before the site shuts down..! Will licenses still be given out past September I wonder?
 
This is based upon the fact that his domain expires in September.
Have you ever owned a web domain? There's no point nor benefit in re-newing it early.
I always do it on the last possible day.

Add into that, BTB probably keeps Piddy in some useful beer money.
It's a couple of clicks at the start of September to sort it all out.

Relax, go create, you'll all live longer.
 
I figured out a sure way to get Brendon's attention, I could release that Eastern Creek Laser Simbin conversion I did :D

jk :p


ps, or I could hold it ransom, "fix the licensing or you will see your Eastern Creek again!"
 
This is based upon the fact that his domain expires in September.
Have you ever owned a web domain? There's no point nor benefit in re-newing it early.
I always do it on the last possible day.

Add into that, BTB probably keeps Piddy in some useful beer money.
It's a couple of clicks at the start of September to sort it all out.

Relax, go create, you'll all live longer.

I tend to agree, most of my domains are on automatic renewal unless of course I take them off it.

Pete
 
It's a matter of economics.

Probably be pretty generous to say that 1000 of us are waiting with baited breath (or worse) for the next BTB upgrade.

Even then, about 950 of us are being pretty silent about it. But let's just say that a thousand of us REALLY want an upgrade sooo bad, that we would be willing to pay 10 bucks for a yearly upgrade.

So... for 10 grand, Brendon is suppose to quit his job (abandoning himself and family), and write upgrades, debug, and solve xp, vista, and Win7 compatibility issues .... on a very usefull tool he created several years ago. For us.

If 10 thousand isn't at least what he's paid per month presently, he should be looking for a different bank to write code for.

I've been writing code since dinosaurs walked the earth (our storage medium was punched paper tape). On big projects like BTB, one month is about how long it would take just to get back into it again, and know where you wrote things, what they do, etc.... after this long away.

Even with intelli sense, the size and scale of everything you can do with the .net framework is mind boggling with the contemporary ms compiler suites. Soon... due to the recent parallel extention additions to the framework, your computers will start using more than one core to get things done. We will all be demanding that our favorite tool makers rewrite their code to utalize ALL of our cores ...

I can see Brendon spending at least 16 hours a day, 7 days a week to 'run' BTB as a product. The only way that makes any financial sense, is if it were subsidised by a larger company who can sell more of their product if inexpensive modding tools are available (eg rF2 etc..).

Even with comparatively few modding tools available, rF 1 really took off. I'm guessing that ISI dosen't feel they need to provide anything but the minium in tools again. Max and Ps are avail as a complete modding solution, and hopefully rF2 and its children will eventually allow us to use more of Max's (and dx11's) functionality. If ISI dosen't, someone else will.

So far as I can tell, BTB is still the only tool that dosen't crash when editing a 50 km track's AIW file. Everything else can be done with free or other inexpensive tools.

It would be wonderful to see BTB carry on. As discussed, it is already protected from dissapearing completely.

How many of you who work full time would be willing to quit your job, and create a usefull modding tool for all 1000 of us... for about 1/12 of what you are now earning, and then free from then on?

When can you start?

Completely false contention.

Few have asked for updates. The tool is evry functional as built.

What is being asked is for a long term solution to the periodic license upgrade requirement.

Even if that solution is to buy a new license every year - just have a way to keep it going, or cut the app loose as a share/payware title and be done with it.
 

Latest News

Online or Offline racing?

  • 100% online racing

    Votes: 72 7.3%
  • 75% online 25% offline

    Votes: 102 10.4%
  • 50% online 50% offline

    Votes: 142 14.5%
  • 25% online 75% offline

    Votes: 268 27.3%
  • 100% offline racing

    Votes: 394 40.1%
  • Something else, explain in comment

    Votes: 4 0.4%
Back
Top