ABS on/off differences

[tiko90]

Hey there,

i have a question and i was hoping you guys could maybe answer it, my question is, if you break without ABS, you maybe use about 80% of the break pressure to get the full amount of breaking without locking up .. now the question is, if you have ABS on, and use also only about 80% of break pressure, will you get the same amount of breaking? or do you have to push the pedal down 100% .. because i've seen a lot of vids with ABS and people always pushing the pedal down 100% with ABS, but since without ABS you never use 100% anyway .. couldn't you just use about 80% to get same effect? I'm asking this because i have the clubsport pedals v2 and it's just more comfortable to not push them down a 100% .. i hope you understand my question and know what i mean, if no, please ask me .. would really appreciate an answer ..

thanks and greetings from Stuttgart, Germany .. Timo

 

[Adria Perez]

Short answer:

ABS only affects the car when a wheel is lock. If a wheel is lock you are not braking properly, therefore you have to use the same exact amount of brake input with abs or without.

Long answer:

I am no expert, but the fastest way to stop a car is threshold braking (braking as hard as possible without locking the wheels).

However fine-tuning the amount of pressure you have to put on the pedal depends on speed, tyre temp, grip, steer input, etc... so it is VERY hard to get the exact point.

With a modern ABS-equipped cars (in R/L and in AC) you can brake nearly as well by just going 100% brake and letting the electronics do the job for you. That is obviously a much easier approach and that's why you see so many videos of people smashing the brake pedal.

Recommended reading:
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/braking.htm

 

[Georg Siebert]

Would agree with Adria.

One thing I've watched a couple of weeks ago:

(beginn of braking part at 4:31)

 

[tiko90]

thanks for the quick reply .. goingt to read and watch now

 

[Raig Strehlow]

Still Assetto misses setups tweaks for braking.
I compare it to rF1/2 and GTR2.
You can set normally brake pressure, bias and the duct.
That all together changes on how you can brake without ABS.
In the 3 names games you NEVER needed ABS as you could setup everything how you need it (even with Gamepad).
in Assetto you have only Bias, thats not cool.
Even some wheel/pedal users have troubles to avoid locking up the tyres.
with Gamepad you are screwed in AS, without ABS its impossible to brake with more then 50% pressure.

 

[Hany Alsabti]

In AC abs is faster until more options are implemented like the one Shaddix mentioned.

 

[Jason Hunt]

I've attended a car limits day (with the first person being interviewed - Andy Walsh).
Recommended for UK peeps.

Andy was pretty complimentary of Lotus 111R's ABS at the time (2005) as it didn't release the brake too early.

 

[Chris]

In cars like the M3 GT2, you don't have ABS, but once the brakes and tyres are up to temperature, you can apply 100% pressure without locking up quite easily. But if the brakes and tyres are cold, then you'll lock the wheels very easily. However in cars like the Tatuus FA01, you can almost never apply 100% brake pressure, no matter how warm the brakes are.

It's actually a very interesting topic.
I wonder if we could get @Aristotelis thoughts on the matter.

 

[Adria Perez]

But if the brakes and tyres are cold, then you'll lock the wheels very easily. However in cars like the Tatuus FA01, you can almost never apply 100% brake pressure, no matter how warm the brakes are.

Are you sure that brake temperature is modelled in AC?

 

[Chris]

Are you sure that brake temperature is modelled in AC?

I think so.
I mean, I can't apply 100% braking pressure in the M3 GT2 until you've been driving for a few laps. Either it means that the brakes need to come up to temp, or the tyres become more sticky. I dunno.
It really feels like the brakes need to come up to temperature.

If brake temperature isn't yet modeled then it's one hell of a placebo effect haha. Because it sure feels like it.

 

[Georg Siebert]

[...]It really feels like the brakes need to come up to temperature.

Hm, I don't know if brake temperature is simulated as well, but I don't think so. I think it's more the tyres that dictate grip, braking performance and chance of lock up during warm up.
If the brakes have to warm up as well, the lock up chance would be reduced and yet it is easy to do so without ABS coming out of the pits.

 

[Adria Perez]

Yes tyre temperature is crucial for braking, but once it goes up to normal temp after 1 or 2 laps I haven't noticed any variation in brake performance, so my impression was that no, no brake temperature is implemented.

But that is just a guess...

 

[Adria Perez]

In AC abs is faster until more options are implemented like the one Shaddix mentioned.

Are you saying that slamming the brakes is more efficient than threshold braking?

 

[Hany Alsabti]

Are you saying that slamming the brakes is more efficient than threshold braking?

No, slamming the brakes wont make u slowdown faster. threshold braking is very hard in ac right now because the brake pressure is always 100%. on some cars the brakes will lock up at 30-40% of pedal input so threshold braking with the current hardware is way too hard. kunos needs to implement brake pressure.

best way to brake in ac is by using abs with max 80% of pedal input. this way u will get less understeer and the car slowsdown a lot faster. try it with any roadcar, go deep into a corner while slamming the brakes and watch how u understeer. now try again with 80% and at the last moment release the brakes to 60% and u will be able to take the turn.

 

[betterstranger]

Still Assetto misses setups tweaks for braking.
I compare it to rF1/2 and GTR2.
You can set normally brake pressure, bias and the duct.
That all together changes on how you can brake without ABS.
In the 3 names games you NEVER needed ABS as you could setup everything how you need it (even with Gamepad).
in Assetto you have only Bias, thats not cool.
Even some wheel/pedal users have troubles to avoid locking up the tyres.
with Gamepad you are screwed in AS, without ABS its impossible to brake with more then 50% pressure.

You just have to set sensivity of axis in logiprofiler (in case of logi wheels) + set the brakes gamma curve in game properly. It helps a lot - but still doesn't eliminate locking the wheels.

 

[Raig Strehlow]

You just have to set sensivity of axis in logiprofiler (in case of logi wheels) + set the brakes gamma curve in game properly. It helps a lot - but still doesn't eliminate locking the wheels.

i use gamepad... and cant change anything. That's why its too hard to for me to brake atm without abs. Friends using some wheels changed already enough, but it could be a bit better with those options too.

 

[Ben Lee]

I can brake without abs, but I'm much faster with abs, mainly because I'm still using the rather naff driving force pro pedals. I've learned to brake without abs, but I have to really brake within the performance envelope of whatever car because I have no feeling for the pedal, it's like pressing down on a piece of paper.

 

[ENDR]

Have you tried the bungee cord trick?

 

[cerebus23]

Squash ball mod, or CSR pedals

 

[speedrcr]

Or typical household sponge works too...lol


I've been really wondering about brake temps lately as I've been locking up brakes fairly easily (new to game as well and still tweaking wheel inputs at the moment, gamma etc). If they do model this I hope there's some MOTEC instrumentation I can cycle, is was usually cycling between the Tire and brake temp mode. Missing it at the moment

(Stupid question, is there a MOTEC "in car LCD" mod for AC?)