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A little help needed regarding Buttkickers LFE large and amplifier

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First of all, this is a great place for finding information about sim racing gear. There is a a lot in this forum in regards to the Buttkickers, and I have a simple question.

I bought a Behringer NX6000D amp to run 2 x Buttkickers LFE's full size in simvibe extension mode. The question is what cables do I need and where should be connected.

In addition, this may not be relavant but it might be worth mentioning that already have configured 4 mini lfe's buttkickers chassis mode. The amp I am using for mini's is Emotiva BasX A500 and It works well.

As for the Behringer nx6000d, it uses different cables for inputs and outputs.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers
 
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Ruttman98

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IF i remember correctly, the Behringer amps use 1/4-inch TRS / XLR input connectors and 1/4-inch / Neutrik Speak-on output connectors. You can find more information here:

 
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IF i remember correctly, the Behringer amps use 1/4-inch TRS / XLR input connectors and 1/4-inch / Neutrik Speak-on output connectors. You can find more information here:


Thanks for the link. It helped me understand what cables are required.

In addition, I have read a few posts by Mr. Latte and I think he did an amazing job.

Furthermore, I've changed my mind about having 4x mini LFE's in chassis mode and so I will make a big change and have 4x full size/ large LFE BK's in chassis mode and 2x NX6000D amps to power all 4. The mini LFE's will be used for extension mode. I am not sure if this is the best idea but according to Mr. Latte, the power of large LFE's is very beneficial. I've spent lots of money because I am sucker when it comes to immersion.

Finally, I have heard many good things about SIMHUB. For now, since I bought and started using simvibe, I will experiment with it until I learn more and maybe later on will try simhub too.

Your comments are welcome.

Cheers
 
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Mr Latte

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Save your money with 2x 3000 amps instead of 6000. You will not be using even the full output from the 3000D series when applying the DSP benefits

To get the most and best output for the large BK it needs crossover filtering and specific EQ. It’s not just a wattage power thing but having control for the output of various frequencies. With the DSP we can lower or increase the amplitude for different frequencies. It lets the user create a much more tuned output for their installation and personal preference.
 
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Save your money with 2x 3000 amps instead of 6000. You will not be using even the full output from the 3000D series when applying the DSP benefits

To get the most and best output for the large BK it needs crossover filtering and specific EQ. It’s not just a wattage power thing but having control for the output of various frequencies. With the DSP we can lower or increase the amplitude for different frequencies. It lets the user create a much more tuned output for their installation and personal preference.
Thanks Mr Latte.

Its too late for 3000D as I already bought 2x6000D and its in transit. I was looking at the specs and thought 2 x 6000D is the choice for 4 x large BK's. I hope it will work as intended. As for the price difference, it was only $100.

Is this crossover filtering and EQ possible in 6000D? And if so, where can I find this info or instructions?

Is there anything else important that I should be aware of before I start shaking the hell out of my rig?
 

Mr Latte

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If you bought the NX6000D model then yes it has the DSP features.

HELP = Amp DSP Settings Info
Lots of detailed info here to help get you started.

You need to help and learn/experience yourself, how making changes within the CROSSOVER filtering and EQ alter your BK output. With some messing around you will grasp what and how it changes things.
Yet you can also learn to feel at what point the large BK also tend to drop off in felt immersion as these units have most benefit with lower bass and bring much more energy and immersion to these than small transducers or indeed the Mini BK units as they just simply cannot re-create the same sensations with the lowest frequencies regardless of what wattage/amp is used

While the large BK with DSP can bring very nice low bass energy and immersion, it still leaves potential in other ways that can be adopted into a build.

The best approach for low bass but also detail is to use an installation that can use both a large BK and then either the recommended (40w Thruster) exciters discussed on these forums as a concept I am pushing people towards experimenting with. The alternative is to use a Clark Synthesis TST model as secondary units but these are quite expensive if going beyond the entry-level T209 unit.

Why?
The large BK seem the best for low bass, but they run with only minor detail beyond the 60-80Hz range
Yet with the exciters and the TST units we can use them as secondary units to bring much better detail from the 30-200Hz range. Look at it like having a woofer and midrange unit but us covering the full bass range. A single unit will also struggle to produce detail with scenarios like several effects or more advanced effects that contain multiple layers for specific sensations. We can split the frequencies of effects that they go to specific units suited better for their reproduction.

This approach of not just relying on the BK units can greatly extend the felt sensation possible as well as the detail for much richer immersion and the ability to then create and apply more impressive effects design and specific layers or effect roles to specific units.

This "Dual Role" method is worth experimenting with and especially for effects that are active for longer periods or are more consistent. RPM and SPEED in how we can apply both of these to work together and bringing from very low Hz output for high energy low bass but also then for adding more zing and life/sparkle to higher rpm sensations. Experimentation with this is good self-learning and using or how you apply a suitable crossover and your preference of filtering.


Filtering has a big impact on how a unit responds. We can apply gain and a curve for a unit to operate over with the DSP controls.

Then we can use EQ within that curve to apply specific cuts/boost to targetted frequencies. For example large BK suit having a drop in amplitude with EQ @20-25Hz as this region can cause piston pang. Yet we may want to boost that 5-10Hz a lot and have it fall gradually to a range we want the unit to work within. Over 60Hz you will likely feel limited gains in response with the large BK and when applying boost.

This thread (which you have seen) tried to get owners to discuss settings and help people learn how to achieve more performance from their large BK by using DSP. Pay attention to the diagrams showing very different examples of crossover filtering. I recommend you try options like that too.

Like several threads, I have tried it failed with little participation or interest.
Few people are interested in (Tactile) to the level I am which is understandable but its an area I think much can still be improved or learned and I know I still have more things to share and learn yet myself that my own build will highlight in the future.

I attempted at various times and places to encourage others to get involved and offer their own collective feedback. To have a discussion, or indeed debate over differences in opinions/preferences or approaches. I was offering feedback from findings I spent a lot of time with testing and then showcasing and sharing these so others could then share their own findings and people then compare or use such methods myself or others were offering.

The fact is, based on the evidence from limited responses of others, you will find hardly any posts of people coming back giving their own input and information on their own tests and findings or indeed them sharing settings. I can say this after trying several threads over the last 2 years.


Simvibe has not really had any major updates in many years and we can do much more now with Simhub than Simvibe. I would only recommend Simvibe for any specific sim that may offer as good effects support than Simhub (if any).

Simhub is not restricted to CM & EM modes or needing more than 1 soundcard to use with more than 4 transducers. It also can support an unlimited number of channels and soundcards.
 
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Mr Latte

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Its best if you show your rig to discuss how you are installing and where, You might consider installation/position advice before you commit to what you are already intending to do
 
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Its best if you show your rig to discuss how you are installing and where, You might consider installation/position advice before you commit to what you are already intending to do

Sounds like a great idea. Soon as I isolate my rig from the carpeted wooden platform, I will send a few photos of the rig and discuss further.

Many thanks and keep in touch. Talk soon
 
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The Behringer nx6000D is using Speakon connector. I presume for the purposes of connecting transducers it needs only 2 pole Speakon connector. My local store is selling 4 pole. Will this work as well or I will need 2 pole only?
 
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Connecting 2x buttkicker to behringer amp is easy, buy a single 2-pole speakon cable, cut it in half, strip insulation from cut ends (BK LFE takes bare wire connection). Job done.

4 pole cable will work, when you strip the insulation there will be 4 wires, you just use trial and error to figure out which pair you need. Make sure the two wires not connected to the BK cannot touch anything or each other so you don't accidentally short the amp outputs. And always turn the amp off when changing connections for the same reason.

Behringer input is 1/4inch TRS (well technically only 2 conductors so you only need tip and sleeve but it's still called TRS I think).
 
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Connecting 2x buttkicker to behringer amp is easy, buy a single 2-pole speakon cable, cut it in half, strip insulation from cut ends (BK LFE takes bare wire connection). Job done.

4 pole cable will work, when you strip the insulation there will be 4 wires, you just use trial and error to figure out which pair you need. Make sure the two wires not connected to the BK cannot touch anything or each other so you don't accidentally short the amp outputs. And always turn the amp off when changing connections for the same reason.

Behringer input is 1/4inch TRS (well technically only 2 conductors so you only need tip and sleeve but it's still called TRS I think).
Thanks, got it sorted. I bought 2 pole and all I have to do is connect 2 wires using 12 gauge (or it might be 13 gauge) speaker wire. Just need to find out what pin is for Black and what for red. Not in rush as I am still waiting for the parts to arrive.
 
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Cool you bought separate speakon connectors and wire? See pinout diagram below.

CAB505_visio.png


On my behringer NU4-6000 and NU1000 +1 is positive and -1 is negative. There will be a table on the back next to the speakon slots like this.

IMG_20201128_105425 (1).jpg

You might find the fan noise a bit loud, the fans are easily replaced with silent PC casefans which is what I did to both of mine.
 
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Mr Latte

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The polarity won't really matter as long as you keep the same polarity for any BKs that are installed upright compared to those installed inverted.

In that scenario, if someone has let's say 1x BK upright at seat and another 1x BK inverted under pedals then you would actually want reversed polarity on one so that both BKs piston is going up/down in sync.

If this is not done then one units bass will cancel out the other.
As you bought the DSP version. The DSP amps have a feature in the "Configuration" screen for this that reverses the polarity (Phase 180) from the amp so the user does not need to switch the wiring/terminals. :)
 
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Mr Latte

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I would look into ordering and upgrading the fans to some Noctua 80mm models. like NF-R8 or newer/similar.
The 6000 amps have Dual fans as well rather than one. So you'd need 2x fans per amp.

The amps board will have 2 pin connection headers but you can get the fan 3 pin to connect or buy 3-2 pin fan adapters.
I wouldn't cut the original fan's cable just in case you need to put the amp back to normal fan/unmodded condition for any issues with warranty.

Its about 30 min job, simple screws to remove the case and back fan guards but just ensure you have the airflow going in the same direction of the original fans.
 
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Mr Latte

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I used Arctic Silver F8 fans in mine. I use Arctic Silver fans in all my PC builds and never had an issue.

Yeah though care needs to be taken to get one with good airflow ratings, so usually the quieter product lines/models will have less rpm and less airflow. These replacements are already down on the original fans output. I can say with confidence that I've had no failures or overheating problems with the Noctua models and years of usage in these amps.

Example of Noctua airflow ratings but yes other brands will have similarly rated models and likely for less money.
 
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I would look into ordering and upgrading the fans to some Noctua 80mm models. like NF-R8 or newer/similar.
The 6000 amps have Dual fans as well rather than one. So you'd need 2x fans per amp.

The amps board will have 2 pin connection headers but you can get the fan 3 pin to connect or buy 3-2 pin fan adapters.
I wouldn't cut the original fan's cable just in case you need to put the amp back to normal fan/unmodded condition for any issues with warranty.

Its about 30 min job, simple screws to remove the case and back fan guards but just ensure you have the airflow going in the same direction of the original fans.
been watching some youtube reviews and found this information before purchasing my 6000D's. I've placed my order immediately for 4x NF-A8 ULN fans. The fan noise would drive me insane therefore no way that i could put up with the stock fans.
Good idea about getting pin adapter just in case. Thanks for that advice. The installation process seems straight forward.

Swift update, I have received most parts that will allow me to start with the mounting and isolating my rig from the floor. WIP.
Feel free to drop more comments regarding the setup. I will post my photos as soon as I get my rig isolated.
 
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