2020 Formula One Turkish Grand Prix | Driver of the Day: Vote Now

Who is your RaceDepartment Driver of the Day?


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    780

Fat-Alfie

2000RPM
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Oct 16, 2012
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Verstappen just screwed up is own race and only he is to blame for it. How partisan as I am... For me he showed why he could screw up WDC chances in the future. He's a hot head without patience no matter how brilliant of a driver he is.
I think you just summed up my feelings about Max very nicely. I'm really disappointed in his performances - he came into F1 and I was really impressed, I accepted the silly mistakes that he made at the time, his lack of patience, the poor race craft, but admired his underlying speed.

Unfortunately, as the years have gone by, it seems to me that his shortcomings have remained - the rookie mistakes, the anger he seems to be controlled by, his inability to see the big picture, and I honestly think that he has convinced himself that he is better than he actually is (or the people around him have convinced him of that). That's why he seems to get so angry, because the reality of his driving does not match up to the myth.

He is good, yes, but I would not be surprised if someone told me that he will never be WDC. I'm not saying that will happen, but he so often becomes a victim of himself - not of bad luck, or inferior equipment, but I think he just defeats himself.

May I be proven wrong :)
 

Sasha Jednak

Sasa Jednak
Premium
Mar 27, 2011
3,058
1,312
I think you just summed up my feelings about Max very nicely. I'm really disappointed in his performances - he came into F1 and I was really impressed, I accepted the silly mistakes that he made at the time, his lack of patience, the poor race craft, but admired his underlying speed.

Unfortunately, as the years have gone by, it seems to me that his shortcomings have remained - the rookie mistakes, the anger he seems to be controlled by, his inability to see the big picture, and I honestly think that he has convinced himself that he is better than he actually is (or the people around him have convinced him of that). That's why he seems to get so angry, because the reality of his driving does not match up to the myth.

He is good, yes, but I would not be surprised if someone told me that he will never be WDC. I'm not saying that will happen, but he so often becomes a victim of himself - not of bad luck, or inferior equipment, but I think he just defeats himself.

May I be proven wrong :)
But didn't he himself said he would drive differently if he had a chance at title?
As I see it, he can crash and spin as much as he wants while he is not losing anything. And he doesn't have anything to lose since his championship position is already maxed out for this year. On top of that he is till in years where he wants to go fast no matter the cost (Mclaren's Lewis) and not coast around and wait for other's mistakes (although his car doesn't allow coasting around). :roflmao:
Same as you I hope that we get a chance to see RB at least as close as Ferrari in 2017/18, to Merc.
 
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max1966i

100RPM
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Jul 24, 2013
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Lewis again for me. Drove to the conditions through the early stages given the lack of performance the car had in tricky conditions, as evidenced throughout the weekend. When the track and car came to him he was at his best.
 

Appie Kuipers

1000RPM
Premium
Jun 8, 2007
1,057
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I think you just summed up my feelings about Max very nicely. I'm really disappointed in his performances - he came into F1 and I was really impressed, I accepted the silly mistakes that he made at the time, his lack of patience, the poor race craft, but admired his underlying speed.

Unfortunately, as the years have gone by, it seems to me that his shortcomings have remained - the rookie mistakes, the anger he seems to be controlled by, his inability to see the big picture, and I honestly think that he has convinced himself that he is better than he actually is (or the people around him have convinced him of that). That's why he seems to get so angry, because the reality of his driving does not match up to the myth.

He is good, yes, but I would not be surprised if someone told me that he will never be WDC. I'm not saying that will happen, but he so often becomes a victim of himself - not of bad luck, or inferior equipment, but I think he just defeats himself.

May I be proven wrong :)
Don’t forget his 4 dnf’s, that’s just bad luck, with that points he had been second in the standings, with a soso car.
You think he defeats himself, the RBR did it, spinning in the rain can happen to every driver.
Lets hope next year the RBR is equal to the MERCS, then you, and we and I can give a fair verdict, now it is NOT.
He can go on for more then 10 years, with a good RBR he will get his WDC.
 
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muzikant

1000RPM
Apr 19, 2010
1,319
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@ Fat Alfie
What I said he has to push harder than anyone in the front read the two rocketships.. his car is not good enough. and this year more than ever a lot of people thought it will be a real fight. Yes patience ... is certainly a thing for Max but Max is Max thats people love him or hate him fact is he has to push more to keep up the rockets every race

yesterday he could have won the race ...whole weekend he was the fastes on the ( ice) track yess if.... ... fact is his car hit the mugello position at the start ... then he lost time behind Vettel ... and indeed he wanted to pass Perez too quickly....Stroll had run out .. until the problems came of course it also happened very much Lewis his way? he could also spin after Vettel

he came to F1 and you were impressed? realy? a lot of the same guys here says crashstappen most of the time...from the beginning.. broke Max down I dont forget ... with all funny pics of you too. Dont matter everyone have his favorites. I hope very quick a real fight season Lewis vs Max vs Leclerc. This is a one way boring merc show and very bad for this sport.

We wait for a real fight that and we can see who is the best what Sasha says Max will drive differently if he has a better car and competes for the championship.
 

Fat-Alfie

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Oct 16, 2012
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But you can't always blame the car. Yesterday, the Mercedes was far from being the fastest car, and Qualifying proved that. In the race, Hamilton did not need the win yet was able to stay composed and his skill and maturity rewarded him with first place.

Conversely, Verstappen had the fastest car (so we are led to believe, post Qualifying), was unable to get his car off the line, had more spins than my washing machine on housework day, and threw his race away with amateurish overtaking attempts.

That was not the result of overdriving a slower car - that was simply Verstappen beating himself, spoiling his own race. You max fans can't have it both ways - it can't be down to the car when Hamilton wins, but down to max's "skill" when he wins. Yesterday just reinforced my opinion that verstappen is either short on intelligence or maturity. And as we are drawing to the close of his 6th season in F1, one of those two possibilities is unfortunately starting to look more and more likely.
 

ZuneGuy

250RPM
Nov 8, 2010
281
232
I very much enjoy watching Lewis make fools of the Sky F1 commentators. It's just comedy gold listening to their hopeful voices.
 

muzikant

1000RPM
Apr 19, 2010
1,319
1,044
But you can't always blame the car. Yesterday, the Mercedes was far from being the fastest car, and Qualifying proved that. In the race, Hamilton did not need the win yet was able to stay composed and his skill and maturity rewarded him with first place.

Conversely, Verstappen had the fastest car (so we are led to believe, post Qualifying), was unable to get his car off the line, had more spins than my washing machine on housework day, and threw his race away with amateurish overtaking attempts.

That was not the result of overdriving a slower car - that was simply Verstappen beating himself, spoiling his own race. You max fans can't have it both ways - it can't be down to the car when Hamilton wins, but down to max's "skill" when he wins. Yesterday just reinforced my opinion that verstappen is either short on intelligence or maturity. And as we are drawing to the close of his 6th season in F1, one of those two possibilities is unfortunately starting to look more and more likely.
we will not agree so let's stop the discussion but the childish pictures says enough how you think about Max, hope for a real fight next year
 
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Enthilzha

50RPM
Feb 27, 2017
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In my view (like him or not), Lewis has become the complete F1 driver - he is still lightning quick, but has superb racecraft, temperament and makes mistakes incredibly rarely.

But he wasn't always like that - he always had the pace but I remember he used to be a bit 'win or bust,' make more mistakes and let his personal life affect his driving.

Point is, he has had to work hard to become a driver that genuinely excels at everything.

The way I see it, Max is the only driver that can rival Lewis for pure speed (maybe LeClerc in the right car?), but he is not as strong overall because he lacks in those other areas that make Lewis complete.

But I do see Max really improving in those other areas - he is really not 'Crashstappen' any more, having cut out most of the hot-headed mistakes that he used to make and becoming far more consistent.

He is just like Lewis was earlier in his career - brilliant but flawed, but like Lewis did, I believe he is maturing fast as a driver.

Only time will tell if Max can become as good as Lewis currently is, but he is certainly moving in the right direction and will be the one to beat when Lewis retires.
 

Jason Chamberlain

Mobile Chicane
Premium
Apr 26, 2020
103
155
47
I very much enjoy watching Lewis make fools of the Sky F1 commentators. It's just comedy gold listening to their hopeful voices.
I don't think that they are exactly rooting against Lewis. Their job is to create entertainment, so it's in their best interest for things to change up. Crofty sounds plenty enthusiastic when Lewis wins. But it's news when someone else wins.

A good thing for everyone to remember when consuming media of any kind - all they want is for people to be interested. This is true for sports and politics, in particular. Anything that gets eyes on their product is good. So if it ever seems like they're rooting for someone besides Lewis to win, it's because they want more variety and to hold on to the "F1 is boring because Lewis and Merc always win" crowd.

I'm glad that you get to enjoy watching Lewis' dominance as you are clearly a huge fan. I appreciate that we are seeing a level of greatness that we may never see again. But most of us who aren't particular fans of his would like to see some back and forth so that the last few races matter for the Championship. Sky just wants more drama because that is an easier product to sell.

In the meantime, I'm going to keep enjoying the McLaren-RP-Renault battle for third.
 

ZuneGuy

250RPM
Nov 8, 2010
281
232
I don't think that they are exactly rooting against Lewis. Their job is to create entertainment, so it's in their best interest for things to change up. Crofty sounds plenty enthusiastic when Lewis wins. But it's news when someone else wins.

A good thing for everyone to remember when consuming media of any kind - all they want is for people to be interested. This is true for sports and politics, in particular. Anything that gets eyes on their product is good. So if it ever seems like they're rooting for someone besides Lewis to win, it's because they want more variety and to hold on to the "F1 is boring because Lewis and Merc always win" crowd.

I'm glad that you get to enjoy watching Lewis' dominance as you are clearly a huge fan. I appreciate that we are seeing a level of greatness that we may never see again. But most of us who aren't particular fans of his would like to see some back and forth so that the last few races matter for the Championship. Sky just wants more drama because that is an easier product to sell.

In the meantime, I'm going to keep enjoying the McLaren-RP-Renault battle for third.
I'm sure that is true to a certain extent, but there are also ulterior motives involved and they are very bad at trying to conceal them, very bad. There is a poor endeavor to raise one certain driver over him. They aren't fooling anyone though. That is why I like watching Lewis make them look like morons - every time.
 
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Damage Inc

1000RPM
Nov 22, 2013
1,319
804
49
Don't people know the difference between race pace and quali pace? Seems obvious to me the Merc failed to build temp over a short time thus did relatively crap (by their standards) in quali. But in the race (with a decent driver) managed to get the tyres working and once that happened the car's superiority shone through. What's happened to Bottas though, sounds like he's done a Quatararo. Fair play to Hamilton he's got the current grid in his mental pocket!! It sounds like they're defeated before the race starts even when he's behind them.

Also what the big deal about Hamiiton not getting universal love all the time, don't you lot think that's another reason why he's disliked...his fanbase? No champ is really universally liked, Schumacher got slagged off, Vettel got slagged off. Look at my avatar Johnny Rae, people slag him off, I'm on MGP forums, Rossi get's slagged off, Marquez get's slagged off. Yet for some reason Hamilton fans think he should be exempt? It's ludicrous. Crap drivers arn't hated.....top ones are, Lewis is a top driver...He's disliked and hated....DEAL WITH IT.
 
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Turk

1000RPM
Jul 29, 2011
1,387
554
Congratulations to mr Hamilton. I hope next year the sport is again normal after 7 years...whitout any competition whe want a real competition
Your not going to get that with F1. F1 is inherently unfair on the drivers because everyone's got a different car. That's probably not going to change any time soon.

Verstappen just screwed up is own race and only he is to blame for it. How partisan as I am... For me he showed why he could screw up WDC chances in the future. He's a hot head without patience no matter how brilliant of a driver he is.
Ya, I think Max threw that race in the bin. Even after the first mistake he had a chance to win it back but just looked too aggressive. I remember seeing an onboard of him attacking every curb, and sliding across the road on the exit because of it and thinking to myself "WTF are you doing?!"
 

Appie Kuipers

1000RPM
Premium
Jun 8, 2007
1,057
328
But you can't always blame the car. Yesterday, the Mercedes was far from being the fastest car, and Qualifying proved that. In the race, Hamilton did not need the win yet was able to stay composed and his skill and maturity rewarded him with first place.

Conversely, Verstappen had the fastest car (so we are led to believe, post Qualifying), was unable to get his car off the line, had more spins than my washing machine on housework day, and threw his race away with amateurish overtaking attempts.

That was not the result of overdriving a slower car - that was simply Verstappen beating himself, spoiling his own race. You max fans can't have it both ways - it can't be down to the car when Hamilton wins, but down to max's "skill" when he wins. Yesterday just reinforced my opinion that verstappen is either short on intelligence or maturity. And as we are drawing to the close of his 6th season in F1, one of those two possibilities is unfortunately starting to look more and more likely.
I quit, in your opinion he is an amateur, you may have the last word! Don’t forget Bottas, oh my mistake, he is not on your focus.
 

Antony Snook

500RPM
Jul 16, 2011
957
162
45
Lewis did a Prost. Calculate how many points he needs for the tittle and drive for them. If he had pushed to hard in qualifying he could do major damage. The track came through in the final stages so he could push harder. I am happy there was no call for stopping the race.
 

pcraenme

500RPM
Premium
Jun 26, 2011
519
637
I think you just summed up my feelings about Max very nicely. I'm really disappointed in his performances - he came into F1 and I was really impressed, I accepted the silly mistakes that he made at the time, his lack of patience, the poor race craft, but admired his underlying speed.

Unfortunately, as the years have gone by, it seems to me that his shortcomings have remained - the rookie mistakes, the anger he seems to be controlled by, his inability to see the big picture, and I honestly think that he has convinced himself that he is better than he actually is (or the people around him have convinced him of that). That's why he seems to get so angry, because the reality of his driving does not match up to the myth.

He is good, yes, but I would not be surprised if someone told me that he will never be WDC. I'm not saying that will happen, but he so often becomes a victim of himself - not of bad luck, or inferior equipment, but I think he just defeats himself.

May I be proven wrong :)
I hope you are wrong! Ok... this race was not Max’ best performance (although he was exceptional on the full wet tires in qualifying), but for the rest of this crazy year Max did not do anything wrong. The DNF’s were not his fault and all the other races he was on the podium, sometimes even second or first beating a Mercedes. I think Max is a much more mature driver now than a few years ago (which is normal considering his age) and the ‘anger’ you mention, also exists with other drivers from time to time ... they are all human you know. I am sure Max would already be a world champion when he would have driven in the Mercedes over the last 2 years... if Rosberg could beat Lewis, I think Max could do this as well. And yes, if Max is unlucky, he may never drive a WC capable winning car and never become a world champion.

Coming back to this race... the Red Bull was the best car on full wets, but the car did not work well with intermediates. I think the 4 Mercedes cars were best on intermediates, but only Lewis and Perez knew how to make them work.
 
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max1966i

100RPM
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Jul 24, 2013
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I get the sense that Max drives like a sim racer, super quick but never quite measured enough.

He did have the chance to win yesterday even after his poor start. Omit the mistakes and time lost and perhaps he would have but in achieving the lap times he ran the risk of making 'minor' mistakes with huge penalties.

I like Max plenty enough and he adds spice, he's shown he is quicker than the team mates he's had so can clearly get the most out of the car but as plenty have said 'maturity' is lacking. He is very quick to blame others while rushing in as if there is no consequence, just like a sim racer.
 
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Turk

1000RPM
Jul 29, 2011
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I get the sense that Max drives like a sim racer, super quick but never quite measured enough.
I wonder is he just going all out because he's got nothing to lose in a way. He's pushing the RB to it's limits which may be helpful when it comes to developing the next car. Most drivers are very reserved to try and maximise their results. If RB is focused on winning and the chance to win is gone, then they can focus on different things. Learning is all about making mistakes.
 

John-Eric Saxén

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Jan 31, 2010
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But you can't always blame the car. Yesterday, the Mercedes was far from being the fastest car, and Qualifying proved that. In the race, Hamilton did not need the win yet was able to stay composed and his skill and maturity rewarded him with first place.

Conversely, Verstappen had the fastest car (so we are led to believe, post Qualifying), was unable to get his car off the line, had more spins than my washing machine on housework day, and threw his race away with amateurish overtaking attempts.

That was not the result of overdriving a slower car - that was simply Verstappen beating himself, spoiling his own race. You max fans can't have it both ways - it can't be down to the car when Hamilton wins, but down to max's "skill" when he wins. Yesterday just reinforced my opinion that verstappen is either short on intelligence or maturity. And as we are drawing to the close of his 6th season in F1, one of those two possibilities is unfortunately starting to look more and more likely.
You can't look at the sample size of one race. If you do that, you might just as well take Germany 2019 and question Hamilton's maturity. I reckon Max made mistakes in the beginning of 2018, but I really can't think of any big streak of mistakes after that.
 
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