2020 Formula One Turkish Grand Prix | Discussion Thread

Who will win the Turkish Grand Prix?


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LeSunTzu

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No problem with that.
It just shows that it needs rain so that F1 can become a little exciting again.
When it’s dry it’s the normal & predictable Merc show. Can’t tell what's exciting about that?
I don't agree with that. We've had many interesting races in dry conditions over the last years. And a race is so much more than just the winner anyway.

PS I could also name a few utterly boring races won by a Ferrari or a Red Bull.
 
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Bram Hengeveld

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When it’s dry it’s the normal & predictable Merc show. Can’t tell what's exciting about that?
There is nothing wrong with Merc being dominant. They are working harder than any other team out there and have been for quite a few years in a row now. They earn nothing but respect for that successful approach.

But, what imo is the real problem is that with all spending caps, development freezes, test bans etc it's impossible for others to catch up with Mercedes in rapid pace. Maybe Red Bull and Ferrari want to spend 300 gazillion to catch up in 3 months but the current rules in place make that impossible.

Imo Formula 1 needs to re-invent itself as the pinnacle of motorsports where it's all about development without budget restrictions. If Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, Toyota (?) and other brands want to spend as much as they can, let them do it for the sake of F1.

I really don't need HRT, Lotus, Marussia or other new entrants into the sports to fill up the grid, only made possible with budget caps as they will never be competitive anyways.

Innovation is what has made F1 great in the past and the team that spends the most, works the hardest and comes up with the great solutions to problems will be dominant, and can pair an exceptional driver to the team. That's totally okay.
 

muzikant

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There is nothing wrong with Merc being dominant. They are working harder than any other team out there and have been for quite a few years in a row now. They earn nothing but respect for that successful approach.

But, what imo is the real problem is that with all spending caps, development freezes, test bans etc it's impossible for others to catch up with Mercedes in rapid pace. Maybe Red Bull and Ferrari want to spend 300 gazillion to catch up in 3 months but the current rules in place make that impossible.

Imo Formula 1 needs to re-invent itself as the pinnacle of motorsports where it's all about development without budget restrictions. If Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, Toyota (?) and other brands want to spend as much as they can, let them do it for the sake of F1.

I really don't need HRT, Lotus, Marussia or other new entrants into the sports to fill up the grid, only made possible with budget caps as they will never be competitive anyways.

Innovation is what has made F1 great in the past and the team that spends the most, works the hardest and comes up with the great solutions to problems will be dominant, and can pair an exceptional driver to the team. That's totally okay.
I agree a lot of what you say but they could have changed the rules faster at the Fia itself, what they did after the dominated four years Vettel periods. that's not done and that's why we're watching a one-sided show
 

markg88

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There is nothing wrong with Merc being dominant. They are working harder than any other team out there and have been for quite a few years in a row now. They earn nothing but respect for that successful approach.

But, what imo is the real problem is that with all spending caps, development freezes, test bans etc it's impossible for others to catch up with Mercedes in rapid pace. Maybe Red Bull and Ferrari want to spend 300 gazillion to catch up in 3 months but the current rules in place make that impossible.

Imo Formula 1 needs to re-invent itself as the pinnacle of motorsports where it's all about development without budget restrictions. If Ferrari, Red Bull, Mercedes, Toyota (?) and other brands want to spend as much as they can, let them do it for the sake of F1.

I really don't need HRT, Lotus, Marussia or other new entrants into the sports to fill up the grid, only made possible with budget caps as they will never be competitive anyways.

Innovation is what has made F1 great in the past and the team that spends the most, works the hardest and comes up with the great solutions to problems will be dominant, and can pair an exceptional driver to the team. That's totally okay.
I agree, Merc deserve a lot of credit for producing the most dominant F1 car ever, and for as many seasons as they have (and will continue to do I suppose), BUT, what frustrates me is seeing an absolute top driver not having an absolute top driver as a team-mate, although I understand why it suits Merc to have it thus.
 

Bmich67

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some facts
formula one is a constructor championship not a driver championship.
Mercedes beat a soda company what a glory.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I would like to see 20 WILLIAMS at the start ,then the talent will talk, otherwise its all bullshit
 

markg88

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I agree a lot of what you say but they could have changed the rules faster at the Fia itself, what they did after the dominated four years Vettel periods. that's not done and that's why we're watching a one-sided show
It is definitely a one-sided show, and the past 7 years would maybe have been more bearable if Hamilton's team-mate was someone like Ricciardo or Alonso, although reading the Autosport Forums, where it is pretty much a Hamilton fanboy club, it's all because Hamilton is the best driver of all time.
 

Michel Forest

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It is definitely a one-sided show, and the past 7 years would maybe have been more bearable if Hamilton's team-mate was someone like Ricciardo or Alonso, although reading the Autosport Forums, where it is pretty much a Hamilton fanboy club, it's all because Hamilton is the best driver of all time.
It's only now that we can see how good Rosberg was. He dominated Schumacher (not an easy thing) and he was able to challenge Hamilton, get inside his head and even win a WC for himself. My only big criticism is that he refused to defend his title. Bottas, in comparison, is nowhere near as good. He wins a few races and a few pole positions every season, however just about anybody could do that in a Mercedes. But he will never challenge Hamilton on or off the track.

Mercedes likes it that way. They win championships with LH and Bottas is a good #2 who scores enough points to ensure Mercedes wins the constructors' title. It's less interesting for the fans, because we like a good fight between teammates, but it's far easier to manage for the team principals.
 
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LeSunTzu

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Totally agree with Michel. I would just add that this is not 100% Mercedes' fault, but also a side product of the PC era we leave in. Conflicts like Hamilton vs Rosberg or Vettel vs Webber are no longer compatible with the amount of pressure from media. Every single minor incident becomes a major PR issue those days.
 
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muzikant

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It's only now that we can see how good Rosberg was. He dominated Schumacher (not an easy thing) and he was able to challenge Hamilton, get inside his head and even win a WC for himself. My only big criticism is that he refused to defend his title. Bottas, in comparison, is nowhere near as good. He wins a few races and a few pole positions every season, however just about anybody could do that in a Mercedes. But he will never challenge Hamilton on or off the track.

Mercedes likes it that way. They win championships with LH and Bottas is a good #2 who scores enough points to ensure Mercedes wins the constructors' title. It's less interesting for the fans, because we like a good fight between teammates, but it's far easier to manage for the team principals.
you could say the same of Max Verstappen that you can already see how good he is with a crappy car where he has no chance he has split the merc a lot of time ;)
 

Enagee

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I agree, Merc deserve a lot of credit for producing the most dominant F1 car ever, and for as many seasons as they have (and will continue to do I suppose), BUT, what frustrates me is seeing an absolute top driver not having an absolute top driver as a team-mate, although I understand why it suits Merc to have it thus.
Yeah those days are gone of having 2 of the best in the same car.

2 of the best in the same car most likely will end up taking points from themselves...or take themselves out of the race

Too many examples to name.

Will be interesting to see how Sainz developes at Ferrari.
 

michelforest

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you could say the same of Max Verstappen that you can already see how good he is with a crappy car where he has no chance he has split the merc a lot of time ;)
I think Verstappen is a prodigy. You see a talent like his every 10 years or so. He still has to learn how to manage a race however, he still makes mistakes once in a while, like yesterday. That's where Hamilton has a clear edge over him. Yesterday, he managed his own race instead of relying on his engineers, it was incredible.

But the Red Bull, a crappy car? It's still the second best team right now. The Haas or the Williams, these are real sh*tboxes.
 

muzikant

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1 second slower then the merc is miles in F1 how crappy it is.. ohh wait the fia banned the party mode from merc. no this sport is more and more a joke. no competition no fans and the sport is dead. simple, Max is the only one that make me watch. and Max makes faults like anybody else
no more than Lewis or have you forgotten LH.at Hockenheim?
 
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Richard Hessels

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I think Verstappen is a prodigy. You see a talent like his every 10 years or so. He still has to learn how to manage a race however, he still makes mistakes once in a while, like yesterday. That's where Hamilton has a clear edge over him. Yesterday, he managed his own race instead of relying on his engineers, it was incredible.

But the Red Bull, a crappy car? It's still the second best team right now. The Haas or the Williams, these are real sh*tboxes.
Still the only way to make the RB fast enough to even get close to the Mercs is to have setup like razorblade.
Wich Max still can handle 95% of the time.
But all other teammates had trouble keep the car in the right direction the last 2 years.
This played a major part in such a slippery track.
It's basically a unsavable car when it goes.
There is hardly room for error, combine that with a dose of frustration, after another antistall error at the start.
The clutch of a F1 car is basically an on/off switch.
So when it gets released the only thing you control is the amount of wheelspin.
At such a slippery track, anti-stall should not even have to kick in.
That the power goes off for half a second is a software glitch, they still did not fix.
The car was not setup the right way for dealing with midfield blues.
So basically the whole strategy and setup was useless after the antistall bug.
Sure Verstapped made some errors, but just imagine the frustration after the flatspot from the 2nd spin.
With a pitstop less it would be a whole other race for Verstappen.
 
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LeSunTzu

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Yet Verstappen looked dejected to be behind Stroll in qualification whereas it meant he was clear favorite for the race and he showed much impatience behind Pérez eventually leading to a big mistake. So he looked like his flawed self of the early years rather than the 2019-2020 performer, not only compared with the three old foxes who were on the podium, but also with guys like Sainz or Norris.
 

markg88

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The thing about Max is that he got into F1 during this unequalled period of car dominance by Mercedes. Considering that, I think he has done really well. He is clearly at Hamilton's level in terms of ability but not at Hamilton's level of experience. Remember, Hamilton also made mistakes in his first years in F1 and he started with the top team with the best car. Pretty much all his career has been with top teams actually.
For a top driver, it is relatively easy in F1 terms, to achieve success when in the consistently best car and consistently best team, so, considering this, I can understand Max's frustration at times. Hamilton was just as frustrated when Vettel had the best car and team.
 
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F_B

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I don't agree with that. We've had many interesting races in dry conditions over the last years. And a race is so much more than just the winner anyway.

PS I could also name a few utterly boring races won by a Ferrari or a Red Bull.
It's not that I'm against Merc winning. It's that I'm against monotony since 7 years regarding the top positions. We have one team which has won around 90 races of 135 since 2014. Also there is either RB or Ferrari who sometimes are able to win or take the rest of the podium places. This year is a bit different because Ferrari sucks big time. F1 became so predictable that's what upsets me most.
 

Appie Kuipers

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It’s all so simple , the RBR IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, and at the start of the season they are rubbish like every year!
 

Richard Hessels

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It’s all so simple , the RBR IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, and at the start of the season they are rubbish like every year!
Not rubbisch still (mostly) better than the other 8 teams, but not good enough to beat Mercedes.
In a world without Mercedes they would be the top dog, being half a second faster than the rest.
So you have the space to setup the car more fogiving, making it easier to drive ahead.
 
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Sasha Jednak

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So you have the space to setup the car more forgiving, making it easier to drive ahead.
You can do that if you want to just keep your position. If you want to attack ahead you can't go for forgiving setup. ;) And do we know even, is RB clear 2nd with all cars on"default setup" or they only become clear 2nd in Max's hands with unforgiving setup? That is something only them in the team know...

I see as great example of forgiving setup, Merc. Hamilton can go for forgiving setup and be safe most of the time, which helps in races like this. While Bottas needs more unforgiving just to try to keep up with Hamilton, which doesn't help in races like this. :roflmao:
 
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