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2020 Formula One Sakhir Grand Prix | Driver of the Day: Vote Now

The problem is they would retire the car nowadays to save the engine/gearbox. Another element of racing lost to current rules

True, but engineering is so much better nowadays, Hamilton benefits from that over previous greats.

Well my solution to this "you can't win in the wrong car" complaint is .
Change the structure of F!.
Separate drivers from teams
Drivers independent of teams and paid on race results and final championship standing..
Teams paid on race results and final championship standing.
Every driver drives every car throughout the season

Never going to happen but would be great to see all drivers in all cars.

Of course it's never going to happen, it's the way F1 has always been, best engineered car wins. The issue we have is Hamilton fans elevating him to a status (GOAT) that many feel he doesn't deserve. Stats alone are meaningless without context:

He didn't turn Mercedes into a winning team
He drives in the safest and most reliable era
He drives in the era with most points and races
Longest period of a single team dominance

Just because most if not all those things also apply to Schumacher is irrelevant, not everyone regards him as the GOAT, he "was" statistically, but no more. There's more to being a GOAT then statistics.


end of the day, Hamitlon is a great and a legend....but not best ever.
 
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Well people are entitled to their opinions, 7 titles are 7 titles so history will deservedly list him as a GOAT (a GOAT not the GOAT).
I have never said he's a GOAT , I say he is one of the GOATs. There is no reliable way to say who is the GAOT. I just appreciate what they all achieved even if some of them used questionable methods at times, whether I liked them or not as people is irrelevant .
 
Well people are entitled to their opinions, 7 titles are 7 titles so history will deservedly list him as a GOAT (a GOAT not the GOAT).
I have never said he's a GOAT , I say he is one of the GOATs. There is no reliable way to say who is the GAOT. I just appreciate what they all achieved even if some of them used questionable methods at times, whether I liked them or not as people is irrelevant .

Of course people are, just as people are entitled to say Hamilton is not the best, yet those that do tend to get a "but why" all the time, we justify it and then we still get called names for it.

Not sure you know what GOAT means....you can't have multiple GOATS. There can be only one....highlander....
 
or just a budget cap! SAME FRAKING budget for all teams based on a medium and realistic season which cover the medium team expenses... the non engine builder teams get more money to cover the engine rent. you can still be ahead but not that much. OR/AND like in the NFL/NBA a draft system to hire the best engineers and drivers for the worst teams to get better engineers and drivers.
 
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IMO, it's more sensible to have a top-10 or even top-15 F1 drivers and not worry about speculating which one is the best. Impossible to prove which one is "the best", and rather pointless.

This years F1 Merc show is a bit of a farce and any F1 driver could probably win the DC with it, but was the 2017-2018 Merc really that dominant, given Botass 5th position in the DC... Not so sure about that.
 
IMO, it's more sensible to have a top-10 or even top-15 F1 drivers and not worry about speculating which one is the best. Impossible to prove which one is "the best", and rather pointless.

This years F1 Merc show is a bit of a farce and any F1 driver could probably win the DC with it, but was the 2017-2018 Merc really that dominant, given Botass 5th position in the DC... Not so sure about that.

With the hoohah about "cheating" even if Ferrari/Vettel had won the WDCs in 17 and 18 would they have stood?
 
or just a budget cap! SAME FRAKING budget for all teams based on a medium and realistic season which cover the medium team expenses... the non engine builder teams get more money to cover the engine rent. you can still be ahead but not that much. OR/AND like in the NFL/NBA a draft system to hire the best engineers and drivers for the worst teams to get better engineers and drivers.

F1 should look at what Dorna's done in Moto GP. I know the races are a lot shorter but there's never any lapping done (unless someone has remounted), and often the rider stone last is only about 30 seconds off the win.
 
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Of course people are, just as people are entitled to say Hamilton is not the best, yet those that do tend to get a "but why" all the time, we justify it and then we still get called names for it.

Not sure you know what GOAT means....you can't have multiple GOATS. There can be only one....highlander....

I do know thanks and to me he is amongst the greatest drivers of all time.
 

Kimmo Kokkonen

Lord GTR3, His master's voice
For the first time ever I was going boycott an F1 race this weekend, Hamilton vomits, was supposedly a terribly sore week and now ready to drive an F1 car. Lying brings the whole thing about getting sick.

Nico talks
Lewis talks
 
There are regulations... they screwed up and they had to make him come back... no need to find a conspiracy theory every time it went wrong... I know we still live in a Trump alternative world where fact and common sense is taboo... but you must stop with these stupid theories...

And first, I am not a Lewis fan but come on... this is comparing apple and orange... let see how George is doing on a full season with Merc before to compare him with a 7 years Champion... where regularity is above than to be only the quickest man... it is ssssoooo easy to ditch Hamilton achievement on ONE fraking race... but it is still very unfair and wrong.
Yes the car is good, but it is not the only factor to win a race.
It is a good thing that in my country we are still free to think and adopt the thesis we want without needing the approval of anyone for that. So this is the most proven thesis of all: Russell proved: black cars matters! Anyone in that car CAN win a race! The rest is just theory! Choose yours and let others do the same.
 
I do know thanks and to me he is amongst the greatest drivers of all time.

eh? the phrase "greatest of all time" doesn't mean multiple. Within the realms of the meaning of the words having multiple GOATS is an oxymoron.

I propose a new term GOTE, Greatest of their era! :)
 
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eh? the phrase "greatest of all time" doesn't mean multiple. Within the realms of the meaning of the words having multiple GOATS is an oxymoron.

I propose a new term GOTE, Greatest of their era! :)

You are entitled to your opinion as am I mine. I stand by my original statement.
 
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Sasha Jednak

Sasa Jednak
Premium
Did Hamilton really had issue in P1 now, with rear brakes applying while he is not braking??? :roflmao:
Let's get back to that: they forgot to remove that "fix" after Russell went away. :roflmao:
 
For the first time ever I was going boycott an F1 race this weekend, Hamilton vomits, was supposedly a terribly sore week and now ready to drive an F1 car. Lying brings the whole thing about getting sick.

Nico talks
Lewis talks

Breaking News
Shock horror, driver gets sick and recovers.
One car is faster than the other
Winning driver is happy
Losing driver is sad.
 
"Greatest of all time" isn't a word
"One of the greatest of all time" is perfectly correct use of English.
You may not like its use but that's your issue and doesn't make it wrong.

Um I used the word wordS meaning the plural, the sentence "Greatest of all time" is composed of words. Those words have a meaning and in that sentence means one thing.
You actually prove my point, TOO many Hamilton fans miss off the words "one of" which change the meaning of the sentence completely and make it correct. :)
 
Have a chew on this , it just about answers all your criticisms, don't worry I don't expect you to believe it but it good to put the truth out there as there is a lot of disinformation in forums.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54990613

But yes to answer your point no one can really know who is the greatest so the best we can do is say one of the greatest. :)
 
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Have a chew on this , it just about answers all your criticisms, don't worry I don't expect you to believe it but it good to put the truth out there as there is a lot of disinformation in forums.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54990613

But yes to answer your point no one can really know who is the greatest so the best we can do is say one of the greatest. :)

BBC and "truth" are an oxymoron.

read it anyway and what does it prove? nothing unless Schumacher, Vettel, Alonso etc etc were all shite in karts etc? I would imagine you could find anecdotal evidence from the people around the drivers I mentioned above who would say exactly the same things. You get into F1 by being a top level driver (mostly).

Hamilton is clearly a talent and I agree he's ONE of the greatest ever, he joins a VERY long list. :) People like me are narked at the brainless hero worship he gets, especially from those who just bang on about the "stats" (not saying that's you, that's a general complaint in discussions about Hamilton).
 
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BBC and "truth" are an oxymoron.

read it anyway and what does it prove? nothing unless Schumacher, Vettel, Alonso etc etc were all shite in karts etc? I would imagine you could find anecdotal evidence from the people around the drivers I mentioned above who would say exactly the same things. You get into F1 by being a top level driver (mostly).

Hamilton is clearly a talent and I agree he's ONE of the greatest ever, he joins a VERY long list. :) People like me are narked at the brainless hero worship he gets, especially from those who just bang on about the "stats" (not saying that's you, that's a general complaint in discussions about Hamilton).

Fair enough I agree to a point and where I don't I'll let it slide.
Good having a debate though
 
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