Alright when was that again.....?

[sparkmastertape]

Oh so now all of a sudden the opposition matters?

Villeneuve was up against Schumacher, Hakkinen, and Hill, all champions, or to be champions, and arguably one of the best ever.

I think you are talented to write hagiographys, by the way you speak of him.

I will remind you also that Lewis did very little in the rest of his Mclaren stint, and that Button scored more points than him in the 3 seasons combined, and had the measure of him in many races. So either Button is one of the best ever, or Hamilton is not that great, you pick.

It's difficult to compare Lewis and Button at McLaren as Button was in his prime and Lewis wan't even close to his. That's why I try not to compare Lewis and Verstappen, especially since there's a 30 second gap in pace probably even more).

 

[markg88]

I wish driver fans would have some sort of perspective rather than discounting any reasonable view that detracts from their biased blinkered view. It is perfectectly understandable for us fans to have fave drivers. My favourite since Senna is Alonso, and that is based on his performances prior to driving for Renault, his C'ships against Schumacher, and his awesome performances for Ferrari against better cars and teams. I do however, accept that he had a mighty team-mate in Hamilton, so I can only accept that Hamilton is a top driver also, but to me, Hamilton is not the absolute best. Hamilton fans dine out on that year against Alonso, without acknowledging that, apart from that year, he didn't really show anything other than being one of the top drivers. What he has done since getting into the Mercs is admirable of course, but he has had less than tier 1 team-mates in Rosberg and Bottas, although Rosberg was certainly almost Hamilton's equal, but not quite enough. All I recall about Bottas pre Merc, is a driver who could defend well, and that, plus his mild manner, is probably why he was signed by Merc as the perfect No2.
Hamilton fans won't accept it, but I bet Hamilton himself does, that Verstappen is on his level, but he also knows that he has a massive advantage over Verstappen by driving that Merc.

 

[danclark]

I think Nico is a tricky one to properly assess. His junior career was comparable with the very best and he immediately looked classy in the Williams. However, from there, he seemed to slip back into the merely very good but not generational talent category, in that he generally matched or beat his teammates but not by enough to make everyone stop and take notice.

He also wasn't helped with the bulk of his career being handicapped through a lack of minimum driver weights as Felipe Massa kept vetoing that introduction. Allowing for this you could argue he had an even greater edge over his teammates than was visible on track.

However I was very surprised that Ricciardo matched and then started to beat him so quickly and easily, and we never really got to find out if that was a quirk of last year's Renault or an indication that Danny Ricc simply had more ability. Reliability issues for both also made a straight comparison harder. Personally, I rate DR highly given he pretty much matched, and occasionally beat Max at Red Bull and we know Red Bull tend to subconsciously (or overtly in the case of Dr Marko) favour one driver when it comes to development of the car and allocation of resources. Getting marginally beaten by DR is no disgrace and by extension I'm very interested to see how close Ocon and Norris get to him in comparison.

Back to Nico. He is clearly world-class, and I'd rate him at a similar level to Perez & Sainz as a very solid, very fast driver who deserves a seat on merit. I'm not sure his ceiling is as high as the absolute best but I'd fancy him to beat at least half the grid over the course of a season in equal machinery. I hope this weekend gets him in position for at least a Hass drive next year.

 

[Richard Wilks]

It's difficult to compare Lewis and Button at McLaren as Button was in his prime and Lewis wan't even close to his. That's why I try not to compare Lewis and Verstappen, especially since there's a 30 second gap in pace probably even more).

Whats this new "fad" of talking about "prime"?

He was not in his "prime"? He was already a world champion, he was 25 years old, he was in his 4th season at F1, he was the darling of Mclaren, so of course he was in his "prime". A driver doesn't get any faster with age. He might get wiser, and more experient in some situations, but not faster, at least not when you are already a seasoned F1 driver and a world champion.

Its a very convenient argument too, he was beaten by his teammate, but he wasn't in his prime yet/already, it only "counts" when he was beating everybody, then he is in his prime. Surely when he beat Kovalainen he was in his prime? Or when he was beaten by Nico he wasn't yet also?

The mental gymnastics are incredible. It's like me saying that Senna was in his prime in 1988, but not in 1989 when he lost to Prost. Or that in 1989 He wasn't in his prime yet, and only got into it when conveniently Prost went away in 1990. It makes no sense.

 

[BertramRaven]

Button took the championship with Brawn because had to drive fast. After all, he was in a stolen car. If you want to know the real story behind the Brawn GP "fairytale" let me know. Let's just say the latest documentary about the Brawn miracle has little truth to it, some but very little. They also fail to cover the theft of equipment by BrawnGP in a night raid on two factories to "take back their technology." - A pretext which was entirely untrue. In reality, the brilliance of the car was down to a specific team of very talented people who did not work at Brawn GP.
Also, do you remember the My Earth Dream Honda livery? I arranged for some rather sneaky modifications to it. On the nose of Button's car were the words "GO TAKU, GO SAF1". On the nose of Barrichello's car were the words "GO ANT, GO SAF1" - I nearly wet myself laughing when Button noticed.

 

[sparkmastertape]

Whats this new "fad" of talking about "prime"?

He was not in his "prime"? He was already a world champion, he was 25 years old, he was in his 4th season at F1, he was the darling of Mclaren, so of course he was in his "prime". A driver doesn't get any faster with age. He might get wiser, and more experient in some situations, but not faster, at least not when you are already a seasoned F1 driver and a world champion.

Its a very convenient argument too, he was beaten by his teammate, but he wasn't in his prime yet/already, it only "counts" when he was beating everybody, then he is in his prime. Surely when he beat Kovalainen he was in his prime? Or when he was beaten by Nico he wasn't yet also?

The mental gymnastics are incredible. It's like me saying that Senna was in his prime in 1988, but not in 1989 when he lost to Prost. Or that in 1989 He wasn't in his prime yet, and only got into it when conveniently Prost went away in 1990. It makes no sense.

Some people peak early, some people peak later. What us so ‘new’ about that? There are so many variables in racing it’s difficult to see the real picture. Cars are different. Tracks are different. Weather is different. There’s stuff happening off track. There’s reliability. There’s Brownian motion that has to be accounted for. What I’m saying is there’s no way to determine these things. Not even in equal machinery. There’s always randomness and we will never be able to see who’s the best in F1 or any sport. 20 races per year, especially in unequal machinery, can never give the answer to anything.

 

[Richard Wilks]

Some people peak early, some people peak later. What us so ‘new’ about that? There are so many variables in racing it’s difficult to see the real picture. Cars are different. Tracks are different. Weather is different. There’s stuff happening off track. There’s reliability. There’s Brownian motion that has to be accounted for. What I’m saying is there’s no way to determine these things. Not even in equal machinery. There’s always randomness and we will never be able to see who’s the best in F1 or any sport. 20 races per year, especially in unequal machinery, can never give the answer to anything.

Well that's interesting, since you were the one that were so sure of when Lewis was in his "prime" or not... i always said that comparisons are pointless, and merely stated facts.

 

[Durge Driven]

 

[Durge Driven]

 

[Durge Driven]

Have not added full Qualifying or Race up yet
torrents are up

 

[Durge Driven]

 

[Durge Driven]

 

[ears]

What's to change in F1? Black people are fairly represented, amongst the drivers, at least. 5% of the drivers are black (or half black / half white), and the UK has between 3-4% black population, at the last count.

How many F1 drivers have there been, since 1955?

How many of them have been black?

3-4%?

What percentage of F2 drivers are black? F3?

So, as long as there's one black person amongst the drivers, at least, as you put it - that's fine by you is it? Box ticked?

 

[BertramRaven]

Well that's interesting, since you were the one that were so sure of when Lewis was in his "prime" or not... i always said that comparisons are pointless, and merely stated facts.

At this point I should bring up Hitler. By the laws of the interwebs that brings the "who has the biggest (insert object here)" discussion to an end.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

How many female F1 racers are there? How many white sprinters are there? How many black swimmers are there? How many poor F1 drivers are there?

I was pointing out that if if Hamilton wants fair representation within F1 drivers then he already has it. Jackie Stewart was right with his comment.

 

[Paul Glover]

How many female F1 racers are there? How many white sprinters are there? How many black swimmers are there? How many poor F1 drivers are there?

I was pointing out that if if Hamilton wants fair representation within F1 drivers then he already has it. Jackie Stewart was right with his comment.

David, you have missed the point entirely. Yes there is more representation in sports, though I would read the recent comments from English footballer Danny Rose about being pulled over by the police. They would never treat a white person the same way, because of the colour of his skin they are making certain assumptions.

It's very easy as a white person (as I am) to not understand what it's like, if you saw it from their perspective I suspect you would be singing a different tune. Just because the are more minorities in sport these days, doesn't mean they are not subject to racism. I don't get the relevance of your point.

I have a mixed race niece, when out with my mum shopping people come up and say 'isn't she a lovely colour' like she is owned by them. Like she is a prized possession, if it ever happened whilst I was there I'd let them know it's not an acceptable thing to say. It just isn't!!

Racism exists, that's a fact. I'm not perfect, in that I mean we all sub consciously do things and it's until you later reflect that you realise what you have said may not be right. But I'm one that can admit that and learn from it

I'm sick of the crap on here about Hamilton and other black people, also I'm sick of the stick women in sport get. I'm going to support my nieces and push them, they are just as good as the boys if they want to be. Even better in some cases.

And the whole Hamilton argument about not supporting women? He probably does you know, but he doesn't shout about it. Many celebs do things on the quiet as they are not looking for self gratification, often after they have passed you get to hear about the wonderful things they have done for others.

Now that I have vented, I recommend watching this. It's available on Netflix in the UK.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

ok

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

The Racing Point Formula One team have lost an appeal lodged by Renault over the legality of their 2020 RP20 Formula One car.

• Renault protest over Racing Point brake ducts upheald.
• Racing Point fined 400,000 Euros and docked 15 Constructors Championship points.

The FIA have this morning declared the brake duct design of the Racing Point RP20 is indeed deemed to be a copy of the 2019 Mercedes Formula One car, following repeated protests from the Renault Formula One team.

Having been deemed to have copied the design of the 2019 Mercedes parts, which is against the listed parts regulations, Racing Point have been docked 15 constructors championship points, fined 400,000 Euros and reprimanded by the FIA.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291660098549547013

In other Racing Point news, it has been confirmed that temporary stand in driver Nico Hulkenberg will again represent the team in place of Sergio Perez this weekend. The 32-year-old German will again deputise alongside Lance Stroll, as Sergio Perez remains positive for Covid-19, despite not showing outward symptoms of the virus.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291643723957383169

The 70th Anniversary Grand Prix at Silverstone action is set to begin today with opening practice.


Got F1 fever? Need to quench your thirst for knowledge and chat? Head over to the F1 Sub Forum here at RaceDepartment and get a thread started to chat with the community!

 

[Jiltjes]

Does that mean they can keep driving with what they got?

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Welcome to the central discussion thread for the 2020 70th Anniversary Grand Prix at Silverstone.

Second time around and with new tyre compounds to play with, will try #2 produce a better Grand Prix, or is Lewis Hamilton on his way to a second consecutive weekend of celebrating a home win?

Will the tyres last? Will Ferrari find some pace? Can Nico Hulkenberg actually make the race start? Lots of questions, and a weekend in which to find out...

Let us know your thoughts on who you think will win in the poll above.