2018 Formula One Azerbaijan Grand Prix

[Appie Kuipers]

Seb/Max was 100% max his mistake, now the issue is rbr collision!
I rest my case.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I think the Danny Max crash was 50/50. Max did move a little bit but not enough to break the rules IMO.

To follow the rule strictly, it says more than one change of direction. There isn't much doubt that when Ricciardo first moved right, Verstappen changed direction to move roughly at the same speed in reaction to Ricciardo. That's his first change of direction. Never mind that he didn't move a full cars width, change "lane" or anything, he had made his direction-change. Now, if you follow the rules, you cannot change direction again, and just by applying that rule and logic, Ricciardo would've had room to send the car on the inside. If he'd made the corner, or not isn't relevant, but he'd had the room on the inside.
However, Verstappen sees Ricciardo move to the left, and changes his direction to cover off Ricciardo again, thus changing direction in a defensive way for the second time, and have broken the rules.

When Verstappen did what he did, Ricciardo should've done a Raikkonen and jumped out of it at once, and hopefully nothing would've happened. Instead Ricciardo kept at it for a tiny bit, which probably sent it over the edge.

I do maintain though, if Verstappen had followed the rules, and not changed direction more than once, there would've been room and nothing would've happened.

 

[Kevin Bradley]

I do maintain though, if Verstappen had followed the rules, and not changed direction more than once, there would've been room and nothing would've happened

Yes, or like you say the other possibility is he would have shot straight down the run off area at turn 1 (he was traveling at a hell of a speed and braking very late to the inside )

 

[Turk]

To follow the rule strictly, it says more than one change of direction. There isn't much doubt that when Ricciardo first moved right, Verstappen changed direction to move roughly at the same speed in reaction to Ricciardo.

I think he could probably argue that he was moving towards the corner to turn in. I don't think the turn was enough to cover a car width, I don't think Danny ever had the full width of a car to squeeze into and required the driver in front to get the fup out of his way.

The problem is both these drivers knew that the other driver wasn't going to make it easy, Max knew Danny was going to dive down the inside, Danny knew Max was going to close the door. Max was stupid to throw Danny of all people a bit of a dummy, what did he expect to happen? But equally, Danny shouldn't expect Max to leave any space for him at that corner.

While technically I'd say Max is a little bit more at fault, I think both drivers made the mistake. It was only ever going to end one way.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Do you think he will beat Hulkenberg in the championship if he continues to drive like that? Honest question. We're all saying he's very fast, but it's utterly wasted talent right now because of his troublesome mentality.

Did'nt Hulkenberg make a mistake and ended in the wall?

 

[THUNDERbreaks]

That's the problem in this forum, you simracer think you are a racing driver, and know all about racing rules!

LOL rules? Redbull is everywhere in motorsport, basically every FIA regulated championship has at least one car with a Redbull logo somewhere in the grid. Do you think it does not matter? Redbull is also a huge political ally for Liberty Media for 2021 regulations...
So everytime Verstappen, the new Marko's chosen one cause a crash, the penalty (if and when they give any) is way too small to compensate what he actually do and his ridiculous Recidivism. Again he caused a major collision but FIA did nothing, the same people don't think twice to hand a grid penalty to random guys like Sirotkin for next GP. Do you call it sport?
Do you really think what Max Verstappen has been allowed to do during this 4 years of F1 has anything to do with rules at all?

Problem for you is if he keep crashing every race he will still never be WC despite Redbull political power, but when Marko will finally realize that he will be shown the door. The "he is young" excuse is running out.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

So now we use if if if etc. Man oh man.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I think he could probably argue that he was moving towards the corner to turn in. I don't think the turn was enough to cover a car width, I don't think Danny ever had the full width of a car to squeeze into and required the driver in front to get the fup out of his way.

The problem is both these drivers knew that the other driver wasn't going to make it easy, Max knew Danny was going to dive down the inside, Danny knew Max was going to close the door. Max was stupid to throw Danny of all people a bit of a dummy, what did he expect to happen? But equally, Danny shouldn't expect Max to leave any space for him at that corner.

While technically I'd say Max is a little bit more at fault, I think both drivers made the mistake. It was only ever going to end one way.

That's actually not relevant as long as it is an defensive move. Ricciardo did his move first, Verstappen moved in reaction, thus it was a defensive move, as he was trying to cover for Ricciardo. When Verstappen did that change of direction there was a car width on the inside, and per the rules, that gap would be there regardless as Verstappen would not be allowed to change direction again.
The rules does not mention how big a move must be, it's just about a change of direction. Which Verstappen had two of. (And IIRC, had 2 of earlier in the straight as well to try to break the tow).

I am of the opinion that if Verstappen had done his one legal direction change, nothing would've happened. But Verstappen did two moves (as noted by the stewards as well).

 

[M-Bimmer]

Max Ver..crashen should really focus on the team and not himself. Obviously, his crashy year so far along with Ricciardo’s win and with a track battle at Baku with his team mate left Ver...crashen with only one choice...show who’s better to the team when it’s down to both of them but that ended up with another choice later on...i’ll take you down with me.

 

[racelover]

I'd say, One stubborn Verstappen fanboy vs a dozen logically thinking f1 fans trying to reason with said fanboy makes this thread way more entertaining than the race itself.
I'm already out of popcorn.

 

[Deleted member 113561]

When Verstappen did what he did, Ricciardo should've done a Raikkonen and jumped out of it at once, and hopefully nothing would've happened. Instead Ricciardo kept at it for a tiny bit, which probably sent it over the edge.

I could imagine he realized, tried to avoid, realized its too late and chose directly the rear on purpose to avoid a bigger crash ... imagine if he would have clipped the car only, possibly doing a Webber (Valencia)!

@RobertGracie You come across arrogant, just saying ...

 

[THUNDERbreaks]

So now we use if if if etc. Man oh man.

How many spare parts Redbull needs this year?
Another couple of crashes and Mateschitz will ask his money back.

 

[paracletus]

As the stewards basically said - they both (DR & MV) did a poor job on Sunday, as did a number of other drivers.
The pair of them know it too - move on to the next race.
Some got found out by the track and conditions.
Probably the best of the "new" f1 tracks, obviously it's a challenge & there's always a great race there

 

[BP]

Alonso driving around 80% of the circuit on two tyres, and still recovered to P7.

I saw that and I remember thinking "jeez...I always thought it was one of those things you could only pull off in sim racing, but then HERE COMES ALONSO!!!"

 

[Terry Rock]

Both guys can count their lucky stars for that long run-off. A shunt at those speeds would have hurt...badly.
Look at where the cars finally ended up.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Finally, a word on red bull management here. Everybody watching could see what was going to happen yet they continued to let them fight over the same bit of tarmac. Why not alter one of the strategies at an earlier point of the race?

Now that is an interesting point.
In Catalunya when RIC was leading the whole goddam race RedBull split their strategies by pitting him.
Max wins.
In Baku its an internal squabble for minor placings and it would have been a much better place to do it.
Are they scared what will happen if they give Max an instruction and he says "No".

 

[Terry Rock]

If I ran a team and had a driver disobey a direct order...not safety-related, I'd come down on him 'like a ton of bricks'.
Drivers get paid a lot of money to do what is in the best interest of the team in these situations.
It's one thing to ask a driver to constantly yield to a teammate when they're still in contention for a championship, it's another to be ignored when strategy and maximum points are lost through sheer stupidity.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

If I ran a team and had a driver dis-obey a direct order...not safety-related, I'd come down on him 'like a ton of bricks'. Drivers get paid a lot of money to do what is in the best interest of the team in these situations. It's one thing to ask a driver to constantly yield to a teammate when they're still in contention for a championship, it's another to be ignored when strategy and maximum points are lost through sheer stupidity.

Don't forget in the first place it is a driver championship, it's not wec!

 

[David O'Reilly]

Don't forget in the first place it is a driver championship, it's not wec!

Tell that to Williams who have always priritised WCC over WDC.
In the drivets mind its the WDC but the teams money comes from WCC.
Who pays the bills?
As Coulthard once said " You would look pretty silly sitting on the grid with no car and wearing your underpants"

 

[Terry Rock]

Don't forget in the first place it is a driver championship, it's not wec!

I don't want teams using one driver as a 'spoiler' for another or asking a guy who is still mathematically in contention to move over constantly for his teammate.
That said; If the two find themselves on track racing each other 'hard' and the possibility is there to throw it all away, I'd expect the team to have them hold station and use each other to out maneuver their competition up ahead.
The goal is always the 'long-run'.
It's about bringing home both the Driver AND Constructors's championships.
Whether it's WEC or any other series is irrelevant.
It's about doing what you are told and paid 'handsomely' to do by a team principal.
The emphasis on the word 'principal'.
Ever see anybody defy Ross Brawn?
Ever wonder why?