2017 Formula One American Grand Prix

[MoerasGrizzly]

But gosh our Dutch TV channel no longer is neutral in it's coverage. It is getting embarrassing now.

Which particular TV Channel are you referring to? I tend to watch Ziggo Sport (And yeah, they were quite pissed and hardly neutral).

 

[IMrIMike]

Going by the rulebook the penalty for Verstappen is perfectly fine. It's a cut and two wheels no longer are on the track. The debate on Twitter/TV shouldn't be about that.

You don´t even need a rulebook for that, that´s common sense imo. Passing by cutting the corner is illegal, the end. Theres nothing awesome to it, I really don´t see how this is even a debate. And let´s ignore my profile pic for a sec

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

The debate shouldn't be about the cut indeed as it's perfectly clear an illegal pass. But about the inconsistent handling of the stewards this weekend. I am sure a video will pop up shortly showing tons drivers cutting corners and none of them getting a warning or a penalty.

 

[GP20]

What about this?

AFAK Sainz did not overtake Ocon and catched Ocon without cutting corners.

It seems that the Renault engine has made a great race but no words for it.
When Verstappen lost it is due to the engine, when he wins it is due to his tremendous talent, even if he cuts corners.

 

[GP20]

Didn't Hamilton drive his fastest qualifying lap as well with 4 wheels off the track?

Any proof? Because his time should have been cancelled.

 

[GP20]

Did you mean "fête du slip"?

I mean "fête à la saucisse" which is more classy and translatable. lol

 

[wombat999]

Does not matter one jot what the ‘others’ were doing, Verstappen made the move, gained an advantage and was caught out.
Horner is becoming more of a PITA than ever, sad because I had respect for him.
And for all the people referring to ‘EffWun’ as a sport, reality check, it is NOT a sport.
Having spent the weekend at the Australian MotoGP I can say that is real motor sport, head and shoulders above the present fiasco (FIAsco?) that is Formula 1
If drivers ignore the running off track rule then the solution is simple, nice big shark toothed kerbs, aside from ripping the underside out of the vehicle the drivers will get the wax and water treatment as a bonus.

 

[Jayblue]

I lost count of the amount of times I said that a lap would he disallowed in a race sim both in quali and in the race. Surely it shouldn't be easier in real life than in my sim race seat!

I have no issues with the Verstappen penalty. He was clearly all 4 wheels off the track and would not have made the overtake stick if he had stayed on the circuit.

As others have said it's the inconsistency that bothers me. Why they can't just put a meter or so of grass around the circuit between the edge of the curbs, the racing surface and the car park run off areas I don't know.

 

[Kari Kranck]

Sure Mika Salo is Ferrari man and it will take some years before Max will or not.

 

[TeSL9]

Verstappen is very good and fast but hi is still learning. With the bottas overtake he ran him wide and backed off and overtook in the next corner. With Kimi, he went for it and hoped for the best. Clearly the last one was wrong.
But..I dont understand why you can drive all wheels off track in some corners in qualy and race and some you cannot. I think that the rules should be that you cannot drive 4wheels off in any corner at all. If someone rans you wide in paasing situations ,then its a different deal.

 

[IMrIMike]

I dont understand why you can drive all wheels off track in some corners in qualy and race and some you cannot.

It´s fairly simple tbh. Driving off track you gain what, couple of hundreds, maybe a tenth? Max got a podium position by cutting the corner. I do not see how there´s no clarity, it´s perfectly distinguishable imo. Surely it says exactly that in the rules hence why the penalty was given.

It´s just the nature of these carpark tracks, with runoff areas and curbs in the style of the Nordschleife this would be a whole nother story.

 

[TeSL9]

It´s fairly simple tbh. Driving off track you gain what, couple of hundreds, maybe a tenth? Max got a podium position by cutting the corner. I do not see how there´s no clarity, it´s perfectly distinguishable imo. Surely it says exactly that in the rules hence why the penalty was given.

It´s just the nature of these carpark tracks, with runoff areas and curbs in the style of the Nordschleife this would be a whole another story.

I agree but something has to be done with these kind off tracks to stop the cutting

 

[IMrIMike]

I agree but something has to be done with these kind off tracks to stop the cutting

Definitely. Like I said in my edit, it´s the track that allows these things.

 

[Coffer]

It´s fairly simple tbh. Driving off track you gain what, couple of hundreds, maybe a tenth? Max got a podium position by cutting the corner. I do not see how there´s no clarity, it´s perfectly distinguishable imo. Surely it says exactly that in the rules hence why the penalty was given.

It´s just the nature of these carpark tracks, with runoff areas and curbs in the style of the Nordschleife this would be a whole nother story.

The race director flat-out said that track extending is okay this weekend. The obvious problem here is that Verstappen did much more than that, hence why it fell foul of the "gain an advantage" rule.

 

[WOKOWEN1]

Max excuse for going past the limits of the track made me laugh...he said "Bottas gained advantage when I pushed him off the track and then I had to overtake him again in the next corner!!!! Botas clearly slowed down afraid of being penalized and Max thinks he has done a stunt Lolllllll hoooo the youth....grow up little boy!!

 

[GP20]

I agree but something has to be done with these kind off tracks to stop the cutting

This

 

[rubaru]

Every driver talks about how unforgiving Suzuka is...when you drive off track you lose a lot. There is grass or gravel at the edge everywhere except the slight runoff available at the Casio Triangle. Drivers know this and rarely push the limits. Suzuka seems to be a great example of how F1 can prevent runoff and not destroy the cars. Denger 2 is a good place to see what I mean. Runoff is thru gravel with a nice wall to scare the poop out of you. Let's have more of this!

 

[Coffer]

Every driver talks about how unforgiving Suzuka is...when you drive off track you lose a lot. There is grass or gravel at the edge everywhere except the slight runoff available at the Casio Triangle. Drivers know this and rarely push the limits. Suzuka seems to be a great example of how F1 can prevent runoff and not destroy the cars. Denger 2 is a good place to see what I mean. Runoff is thru gravel with a nice wall to scare the poop out of you. Let's have more of this!

Suzuka also happens to be one of the worst tracks for racing in F1 these days due to the tightness of the track making overtaking and risk-taking almost impossible with today's wider grippier cars, which is partly made worse by the lack of run-off. It's not the answer. In fact, there's no need for an answer, because there is no valid question to be posed in the first place seeing as this was the correct decision.

If you force drivers to drive within 95% of their limit, which is the equivalent of reintroducing that run-off, all you'll do is kill whatever few good elements the sport still has. The new run-off is universally good so long as the rules are enforced.

 

[Trezoitao38]

Indianapolis is a good example.

Compare before and after 1993.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

Suzuka also happens to be one of the worst tracks for racing in F1 these days due to the tightness of the track making overtaking and risk-taking almost impossible with today's wider grippier cars, which is partly made worse by the lack of run-off. It's not the answer. In fact, there's no need for an answer, because there is no valid question to be posed in the first place seeing as this was the correct decision.

I kinda disagree in the case of COTA: COTA is already one of the widest tracks out there, and making the insides of corners harder to cut (just the insides!) won't affect the racing in the way that it does in Suzuka.

I mean, I also get why the modern tracks are the way they are, there's multiple advantages there: In no small part it's simply easier to remove a crashed car from the track with all that runoff, which means you have to neutralize the race less (compare the Dubai 24h to the Spa 24h and you'll see what I mean there). But the corner Max cut? Some astroturf there wouldn't go amiss imo.