2014 Mod Announcement

[andrew smith]

i personally think that formula sim racing should of considered staying with rfactor 1 cause there is still issues with ractor 2 and still could of had tests with rfactor 2 to constantly to find solutions to the problems then maybe switch mid season anyway thats my personal opinion

 

[Bono Huis]

This isn't you driving right? If so I am not sure if you are on purpose driving like an amateur (fast in, slow out) here just to make a point in this forum discussion.

Please re-enable epic FSR World Champion skills mode that we have seen you doing in rF1 and shoot another video

It is me driving and this proves just how little you know about what you are talking about, so do everyone a favour here and keep silent.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Oh sorry, I am new to simracing, ill shut up

 

[Bono Huis]

Good

 

[Jordan Weekes]

Why are there so many butt hurt people around ;(

 

[Lewis McGlade]

ahhh this kind of stuff where people are just simply trying to stir sh*t up is just laughable, even from Bram lelelelelel

 

[Ron Squire]

Facepalm anyone?

 

[Andrew Ford]

ahhh this kind of stuff where people are just simply trying to stir sh*t up is just laughable, even from Bram lelelelelel

in a desperate attempt to work out what lelelelelelel meant..i typed it in to google translate...perhaps it was dutch? nope. only thing which came close was lelele...meaning, "listen" in Zulu.

Might come in handy next time i'm in that neck of the woods. Thank you Lewis, Racedepartment and this thread for something even more useful than simulated dirty air.

 

[Ho3n3r]

in a desperate attempt to work out what lelelelelelel meant..i typed it in to google translate...perhaps it was dutch? nope. only thing which came close was lelele...meaning, "listen" in Zulu.

Might come in handy next time i'm in that neck of the woods. Thank you Lewis, Racedepartment and this thread for something even more useful than simulated dirty air.

Well in that case you can stay here at my place in Pretoria when you come over

I think that the dirty air effect is indeed a bit exaggerated though, but it will be even worse with a fast entry, as in the video. I'm sure that it can be perfected with a lot of testing.

 

[David Dominguez]

I think that the dirty air effect is indeed a bit exaggerated though, but it will be even worse with a fast entry, as in the video. I'm sure that it can be perfected with a lot of testing.

That's basically the problem, he approaches a very fast corner being quite close, but trying to use similar inputs as if driving alone (on entry). Then obviously the car is ****ed on mid corner and the time lost is bigger. Slow in is a must to do in that case, and if possible, a slight change on the line, to avoid a bit the car in front, so the downforce loss is a bit smaller. Car setup has also a say on this, especially aero balance.

Silverstone is also a special track, not all tracks have those kind of 240-270 km/h corners all around.

 

[Ho3n3r]

That's basically the problem, he approaches a very fast corner being quite close, but trying to use similar inputs as if driving alone (on entry). Then obviously the car is ****ed on mid corner and the time lost is bigger. Slow in is a must to do in that case, and if possible, a slight change on the line, to avoid a bit the car in front, so the downforce loss is a bit smaller. Car setup has also a say on this, especially aero balance.

That is very well put.

I'm the last person who would be able to criticise Bono, and his input will always be appreciated by everyone I'm sure. But I'm sure he'd have an open mind about it as well, and at least give it a go.

Maybe it's just because he's never behind anybody that he hasn't been allowed to adapt it before

In this video, this driver does very well to focus on the acceleration on exit, and clearly it works very well in the dirty air.

 

[Paul Brennan]

Wow..Am assuming you have changed the dirty air parameters cos that looks fixed :-D

 

[Bono Huis]

Quite useless this video I must say. The car infront is clearly a lot slower and misses quite a lot of apexes so it's natural that it looks easier to follow then. And you are showing a lot of lowspeed clips which isn't really the problem. 1:48 in your video is quite obvious for me though, way too much understeer, even more than in F1 as I showed in my video. Oh well we have different views, let's agree to disagree

 

[David Dominguez]

Quite useless this video I must say. The car infront is clearly a lot slower and misses quite a lot of apexes so it's natural that it looks easier to follow then. And you are showing a lot of lowspeed clips which isn't really the problem. 1:48 in your video is quite obvious for me though, way too much understeer, even more than in F1 as I showed in my video. Oh well we have different views, let's agree to disagree

The car in front did another stint behind the other car at similar distance, so, no.

At 1:48 there is a loss of 0.2-0.3s, in maybe the fastest corner of whole season, I dont think it's so huge. Just as it should be, if approaching the corner more carefully.

 

[Bono Huis]

That's basically the problem, he approaches a very fast corner being quite close, but trying to use similar inputs as if driving alone (on entry). Then obviously the car is ****ed on mid corner and the time lost is bigger. Slow in is a must to do in that case, and if possible, a slight change on the line, to avoid a bit the car in front, so the downforce loss is a bit smaller. Car setup has also a say on this, especially aero balance..

At 0:19 I clearly take this slower entry approach, so you just see what you want to see I guess.

The car in front did another stint behind the other car at similar distance, so, no.

At 1:48 there is a loss of 0.2-0.3s, in maybe the fastest corner of whole season, I dont think it's so huge. Just as it should be, if approaching the corner more carefully.

Again, watch my video, the real F1 clip at the end...

 

[David Dominguez]

Again, watch my video, the real F1 clip at the end...

Why not to see this one, at 1:15? Or do you still think that Schumacher doesn't know how to drive?

Having said this, I have enough of this subject, I already said what I had to say so there is no need to keep discussing forever.

 

[Bono Huis]

Yeah let's compare it to a completely different corner on a different track with a lot of left front tyre wear with a car that is as understeery as they can get. Because **** logic.

 

[Esteve Rueda]

I have something to say after reading here to decide what to do this year about FSR (I would like to join).

Yeah let's compare it to a completely different corner on a different track with a lot of left front tyre wear with a car that is as understeery as they can get. Because **** logic.

Mmm... and you are comparing in your video two cars in same conditions with two real cars that can be in totally different paces. I'm sure the front car is way slower or has worse tire wear. Real video posted by David is more clear about that, and shows how a driver avoid dirty air if It's in a similar pace, and what happens when he does not.

Maybe David demonstration in rF2 does not show two cars in the same pace, but, shows how real F1 drivers behave, and you can see It in every race, if they are in the same pace they lose lot of time in fast corners, or they can maintain distances slowing a bit against a slower car to attack later in straight and next turn.

If you are saying a real F1 car can maintain the thottle down at less than 20-15 metters in that turn against a car with same pace in that Silverstone turn... I will say you are wrong for sure.

PS: and hey! I do not like OW more than GTs... I love GTs way more, because of his style, if someone want to race with GT style, go race GT1 class and that stuff, even in those cars is really hard to overtake if both have the similar pace and you do not play with edited pillow/overtake-ready cars.

 

[Matt Sentell]

There are actually ways to evaluate this more scientifically. I had some data from a recent test session that looks like this:

Leading @293kph - Front DF=6540N - Rear DF=8280N
Following @293kph - Front DF=5085N - Rear DF=7227N

It's just quick and dirty analysis but that's about 22% of front downforce loss and 12% lost at the rear. This is in line with the figure I've always heard for front downforce of between 20 and 25% lost, but perhaps someone has sources that dispute that.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

There are actually ways to evaluate this more scientifically. I had some data from a recent test session that looks like this:

Leading @293kph - Front DF=6540N - Rear DF=8280N
Following @293kph - Front DF=5085N - Rear DF=7227N

It's just quick and dirty analysis but that's about 22% of front downforce loss and 12% lost at the rear. This is in line with the figure I've always heard for front downforce of between 20 and 25% lost, but perhaps someone has sources that dispute that.

I found a news stating, that the aim of the 2009 regulations is to reduce the downforce loss from !46%! to 25%.
The only diffrence is, that the 2009 aero rules intended a balance shift to the front rather than to the rear, according to that the downforce loss at the rear wing is a bit.
http://www.farzadsf1gallery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16491&p=296486
Here some more info, which state, that the pre 2009 df loss is at least 40%
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/overtaking.html

I guess some drivers now have to have a big argument with the FIA and real world aerodynamics. Air is really stupid...