2012 Formula One Japanese Grand Prix

[Tom]

Great race, well worth getting up early. Let's see if Korea can be less boring in 2012.

 

[Metalfreaky]

They had the new endplate in Singapore that I mentioned, but didn't use it.
I know about their problem with their windtunnel, but they already had those porblems last year...

 

[Ketnix]

Its odd that they are still having the issue then. Or maybe they've just started more development for next years car? But I doubt that, they've seriously have had a great chance for the drivers title this year, some late effective upgrades could of made the next few races so much easier for them.

 

[David Garcia]

Ketnix, Alonso just said to the spanish TV that the Ferrari didn´t had a single new piece or improvement for the last 6 races...

And I agree, even if Alonso is the best driver by far, without a good car, hardly he will get the champ. Sad. What I think is that Vettle does not deserve to win three tittles, and less to score more vitories or poles than Senna or Schumacher, he have been lucky to get always a very competitive car. I would like to see him in a non winning car really.

 

[David Baz]

Ketnix, Alonso just said to the spanish TV that the Ferrari didn´t had a single new piece or improvement for the last 6 races...

And I agree, even if Alonso is the best driver by far, without a good car, hardly he will get the champ. Sad. What I think is that Vettle does not deserve to win three tittles, and less to score more vitories or poles than Senna or Schumacher, he have been lucky to get always a very competitive car. I would like to see him in a non winning car really.

2007-2008 Toro rosso

 

[ufunacaoenn]

Ketnix, Alonso just said to the spanish TV that the Ferrari didn´t had a single new piece or improvement for the last 6 races...

And I agree, even if Alonso is the best driver by far, without a good car, hardly he will get the champ. Sad. What I think is that Vettle does not deserve to win three tittles, and less to score more vitories or poles than Senna or Schumacher, he have been lucky to get always a very competitive car. I would like to see him in a non winning car really.

This years car have been far from good compare to Mclarens and Ferraris (at the mid season before the summer break) and now he got the winning car but he have also managed to score as many points as possible to give him self an advantage when he got the faster car this season.
Alonso on the other hand had some luck with Mclaren stealing points from Hamilton and Button giving Alonso an far easier road to achieve the lead he had once Ferrari got their car going.
I know someone said this early this year but this years championship winner would be the most consistent driver.

 

[Ketnix]

Ketnix, Alonso just said to the spanish TV that the Ferrari didn´t had a single new piece or improvement for the last 6 races...

And I agree, even if Alonso is the best driver by far, without a good car, hardly he will get the champ. Sad. What I think is that Vettle does not deserve to win three tittles, and less to score more vitories or poles than Senna or Schumacher, he have been lucky to get always a very competitive car. I would like to see him in a non winning car really.

Vettel did get Toro Rosso's only win in F1 back at Monza, one hell of a wetrace though.

 

[Chris Cronshaw]

This years car have been far from good compare to Mclarens and Ferraris (at the mid season before the summer break)

Are you for real?
The Ferrari has been shockingly poor compared to the Red Bull.
I would say the Red Bull has been at least on a par with the McLaren, but by virtue of the fact the Red Bull has been more consistent and reliable it has to be considered the best car on the grid yet again!
I do not believe for a second that Vettel would ever pull a Schumacher, Alonso or now even Hamilton and prove himself by building a lesser team up. And for that reason I agree with @David Garcia.

Oh and if anyone mentions 2008 Torro Rosso, it was a Red Bull with a Ferrari engine so was more than capable of scoring good points (it was better than that years Red Bull) and Monza Vettel was the only driver who took a chance on a Wet quali setup incase it rained in the race too, the big teams couldn't take the risk due to Parc Ferme.

 

[Ketnix]

Red Bull early years, oh those were the days.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Vettel is brilliant! I love how he proves the doubters wrong season after season, and shoves the finger deeper and deeper into the haters' faces

If you cannot admit that the man knows how to get better the closer the end of the season gets, you are living in denial.

The Red Bull certainly has not been the best car all through the year, and yet he's still close. Also, the Red Bull hasn't been nearly as reliable as the Ferrari. How many mechanical failures has there been compared between Ferrari and Red Bull?

 

[ufunacaoenn]

Are you for real?
The Ferrari has been shockingly poor compared to the Red Bull.
I would say the Red Bull has been at least on a par with the McLaren, but by virtue of the fact the Red Bull has been more consistent and reliable it has to be considered the best car on the grid yet again!
I do not believe for a second that Vettel would ever pull a Schumacher, Alonso or now even Hamilton and prove himself by building a lesser team up. And for that reason I agree with @David Garcia.

How have Ferrari been poor compare to the Red Bull???
From the Spanish GP all the way to the German GP the Ferrari have been equal to Red Bull, those are also the races in wish Alonso started catching up and passing Vettel to take the lead on the championship....
And before someone goes and says "this makes Alonso all the better driver then Vettel", Alonso took the lead on the championship when Vettels engine/gear box failed him and had to retire in Valencia while he was in the lead.

 

[David Garcia]

2007-2008 Toro rosso

Sure... what he won then? One race in exceptional conditions? Yes... not a wining with a bad car in normal conditions.

 

[David Garcia]

And before someone goes and says "this makes Alonso all the better driver then Vettel", Alonso took the lead on the championship when Vettels engine/gear box failed him and had to retire in Valencia while he was in the lead.

You answered yourself Girogios, and other guys did above saying the opposite stuff to what you are trying to defend saying Vettel had much more mechanical failures than the Ferrari only proves the Red Bulls is the fastes car when it is not into the garage. Alonso had to be consistent and not fail to get what he has now, when others could fail more often and recover fast because driving a faster car. For me saying the Ferrari have been the same than the Red Bull or McLaren during the season is being blind.

Vettel fastest lap todaty was 0,8 secs per lap faser than Massa´s lap.

And not to talk about Massa performance during this and previous season. Today was the first podium for him after 35 GPs!!! If the Ferrari was a good car he would score podiums much more often. Cmon...

¿You think Grosjean will decide the tittle?

 

[Ketnix]

Thats if you consider Massa to be as good as Alonso, which most people im guessing wouldn't. Alonso has managed to out drive that Ferrari and overall have some pretty good luck.

 

[Astra]

Sure... what he won then? One race in exceptional conditions?

Yes, and he was scoring the most points and finished highest in the history of Torro Rosso team. Making him the most succesful Torro rosso driver ever.

Yes... not a wining with a bad car in normal conditions

Is that even possible?

 

[David Garcia]

He won in rain conditions as @Chris Cronshaw said above.

Win a race with a bad car is something just the very best drivers would do, Alonso, Hamilton or Senna as an example. Vettel is not that kind of driver... he wins when he scxores a pole and the car is the very best. Assume it.

Thats if you consider Massa to be as good as Alonso, which most people im guessing wouldn't. Alonso has managed to out drive that Ferrari and overall have some pretty good luck.

I agree Alonso has managed to make amazing races this season when the car was not supposed to. Massa was a tittle contender until the last race some years ago, loosing it in the last lap with Hamilton. I think Massa shows where the car is really. The real performance of the car.

 

[ufunacaoenn]

You answered yourself Girogios, and other guys did above saying the opposite stuff to what you are trying to defend saying Vettel had much more mechanical failures than the Ferrari only proves the Red Bulls is the fastes car when it is not into the garage. Alonso had to be consistent and not fail to get what he has now, when others could fail more often and recover fast because driving a faster car. For me saying the Ferrari have been the same than the Red Bull or McLaren during the season is being blind

Vettel had 1 mechanical failure giving Alonso the lead, yes BUT Hamilton and Buttons Mclaren got improved after Valencia putting them above RBR and Ferrari while Lotus was at that time equal to RBR, Ferrari and in some races Mclaren too, meaning that all those 4 extra drivers were stealing points from Vettel and Alonso making it more diffecult for Vettel to recover.
I am not trying to say or prove that Alonso is a bad driver, I am just trying to show you that your view on Vettel being lucky isn't correct.

And I am not being blind to say that the Ferrari was equal to RBR since if you look on the sector times, the fastest lap times on race and in qualify you will notice that the difference in the races which I mentioned that the Ferrari have been as quick as the RBR. (Montreal was an exception but let's not forget that Alonso did not pit on the end of the race while Vettel did so his lap time is SO much faster then Alonsos)
Also I never said that Ferrari was as quick as Mclaren but I maybe should since Mclaren was not consistently that quick between Spain and Germany.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Well If you say so David I guess you mussed SPA 2012 Completely with the Crap car which didn't let him to Go to Q3 and Lost ground at start He Managed to get a P2. What you would say about it with Overtaking People(Which Lot of People say he can't do it)

Having a Good car(Great car in you view)wasn't his fault. If he had a More light to flag Wins Means He didn't do any mistakes through out the race and also it means other teams Just wasn't quick enough but Not he was a Bad driver in a good car or a Driver Who doesn't have the Skills.
If you are a quick Driver and You have a Good car you must produce the Results what Seb did through out 2011.
If One team is Dominating means other teams are Unable to Catch them in Development Race.
Surely A pole in Australia with out KERS in 2011. How can any one Get it with Such a Gap with out any Skills.

 

[Chris Jenkins]

Apparently pushing hard in qualifying can really hinder you on race day in Suzuka, so lets hope Vettel doesn't do his usual disappearing off into the distance from pole.

Ah crap!...

 

[Metalfreaky]

According to f1.com Ferrari again brought a completly new endplete to Japan and again they didn't used it in race.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2012/878/1011.html