2 questions (car performance and car physics related).

[João Andias]

Hello,

Perhaps some one here can help me with 2 questions, thanks in advance.

1) The car engine info in game doesn’t seem to be very precise, where and how can I see the real in game engine performance? (In likes GTR2 power and torque bands, although I don’t need the graphics, the values would do).

For instances, on my game version (STEAM), the GT club Gillet Vertigo is listed in the info as:

3200 V6 24V
375 bhp 8250 rpm
410 Nm 7000 rpm

But in game, its red line starts at 6500 and the rev limiter tops at 7100 rpm and sure seem to me the torque pique is about 6000 rpm when I’m driving it ?!?


2) Not much of a question, but kind of a wonder…
I see that in public servers F3000 and FBMW are very popular.
I’ve tried both models and, well, the physics are a joke, right?
It’s a bit like the extreme something class cars, they are fantasy; I just wonder why they call it F3000 and FBMW…

It just feels I’m driving those electric cars on rails in a fair; they turn, brake and accelerate when I want and never complain a true dream car…

I’ve no experience of open wheel cars, well, except a 125 cc 2T TM Kart and sure I don’t remember it has being “easy” (to me a dirty biker, it was a fun and vicious small machine on 4 wheels).

So, the question for any of you with experience on these formulas (however small it might be), is: Is this physics behavior on GTREvo right? Do they really behave "more or less" like this?

The old Clay’s Formula 1 record of the Nord is 7:05 on a 312 T (3000cc too)…
I bet many of you can go below 6:30 on a F3000 with this game!

Regards,

 

[Ryan Callan]

You have to remember all the advancements in wings and tyres etc since those days at Nords. Plus you will always go faster in a game because you can't kill yourself, a factor especially true at Nords!

And I would say the FBMW is quite tricky to drive right on the limit - rear wheels lock up under braking and if it breaks free, it totally breaks free. The FBMW is fairly underpowered remember and with a wing and slicks I would have thought them stupidly easy to drive.

 

[Damian Henderson]

Hello,

Perhaps some one here can help me with 2 questions, thanks in advance.

1) The car engine info in game doesn’t seem to be very precise, where and how can I see the real in game engine performance? (In likes GTR2 power and torque bands, although I don’t need the graphics, the values would do).

For instances, on my game version (STEAM), the GT club Gillet Vertigo is listed in the info as:

3200 V6 24V
375 bhp 8250 rpm
410 Nm 7000 rpm

But in game, its red line starts at 6500 and the rev limiter tops at 7100 rpm and sure seem to me the torque pique is about 6000 rpm when I’m driving it ?!?

Think the physics files are locked / hidden so you cant modify them.

2) Not much of a question, but kind of a wonder…
I see that in public servers F3000 and FBMW are very popular.
I’ve tried both models and, well, the physics are a joke, right?
It’s a bit like the extreme something class cars, they are fantasy; I just wonder why they call it F3000 and FBMW…

It just feels I’m driving those electric cars on rails in a fair; they turn, brake and accelerate when I want and never complain a true dream car…

I’ve no experience of open wheel cars, well, except a 125 cc 2T TM Kart and sure I don’t remember it has being “easy” (to me a dirty biker, it was a fun and vicious small machine on 4 wheels).

So, the question for any of you with experience on these formulas (however small it might be), is: Is this physics behavior on GTREvo right? Do they really behave "more or less" like this?

The old Clay’s Formula 1 record of the Nord is 7:05 on a 312 T (3000cc too)…
I bet many of you can go below 6:30 on a F3000 with this game!

Regards,

You can't really compare lap times from real life to games, one of the main reasons is that the track lengh is never allways 98% accurate, there's only 2-3 tracks in sim racing that are like that, Laguna Seca for example.

The physics in Evo are made a bit more you know, dumbed down for the more general public too so the game is not 100% sim or accurate physics wise and on top of that the game engine is not the best physics wise but it's pretty good, rFactor feels a bit more sim like but the GT cars in Evo are a bit more improved and I think the WTCC are pretty realistic for the game engine.

One person to ask if the FBMW's are realistic compared to real life is real FBMW driver Daniel Juncadella .

 

[João Andias]

Think the physics files are locked / hidden so you cant modify them.

I think the server auto checks files for discrepancies and we all know that those kind of "cheaters" (the ones who change these kind of files are the easy ones to be caught)
Anyway, I suspected that...
Well, I guess we can't have it both ways, easy MODding and a cheat "difficult" game...

hmmm but, I've seen a few new cars (from GTr2), PTSimis comes to mind, have to look better into this...

The question stil stands, what do you make of this (see below)?
Maybe is something obvious that I'm missing, but help would be appreciated.

For instances, on my game version (STEAM), the GT club Gillet Vertigo is listed in the info as:

3200 V6 24V
375 bhp 8250 rpm
410 Nm 7000 rpm

But in game, its red line starts at 6500 and the rev limiter tops at 7100 rpm and sure seem to me the torque pique is about 6000 rpm when I’m driving it ?!?

You can't really compare lap times from real life to games...

I shouldn't have putted that time there, I did it to try to illustrate the problem... I know what you both mean, and I understand that.

I must confess that I didn't tried the FBMW that much... but, going over those bumpy corners of the Nord the amount of grip and turning capacity I was obtaining from a F3000 on the Nord just made me quite... like, nahhh, no way Jo, no f#% way… even with a lot of downforce, that wheel should have been on the air
Thinking of it, for instances, formulas on the Karrocel, shouldn’t be able to do the inside line… well, at least I wouldn’t be the one paying for the damage

 

[Damian Henderson]

The question stil stands, what do you make of this (see below)?
Maybe is something obvious that I'm missing, but help would be appreciated.

It's just way it is sometimes in SImbin games, the data shown in game is actually slightly different what the actual data the car is using in the physics files.

I must confess that I didn't tried the FBMW that much... but, going over those bumpy corners of the Nord the amount of grip and turning capacity I was obtaining from a F3000 on the Nord just made me quite... like, nahhh, no way Jo, no f#% way… even with a lot of downforce, that wheel should have been on the air
Thinking of it, for instances, formulas on the Karrocel, shouldn’t be able to do the inside line… well, at least I wouldn’t be the one paying for the damage

You would be surprised how much grip a real race car has, they have a lot of grip and front turn in, maybe if you try driving one you wil understand

 

[Ryan Callan]

If you ask the professional drivers who test these games, which racing game is the closest to reality (aside from iRacing) they will tell you RACE 07 is. Just because it is less difficult than you think it should be, does not mean that it is an unrealistic game.

I value the professional drivers opinions

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I’ve tried both models and, well, the physics are a joke, right?
It’s a bit like the extreme something class cars, they are fantasy; I just wonder why they call it F3000 and FBMW…

arrot:

I really can't stand such comments Sorry!

But tell me, when was the last time you drove a real Formula 3000 and a Formula BMW in real life so you conclude something like that?

Real open wheel racers have tested this game and one of them rated it a 95% real feel! The last 5% that is not simulated is fear.

 

[João Andias]

From my 1st post

I see that in public servers F3000 and FBMW are very popular.
I’ve tried both models and, well, the physics are a joke, right?
It’s a bit like the extreme something class cars, they are fantasy; I just wonder why they call it F3000 and FBMW…

Well, it seems the simple answer to this is… wrong, they aren’t a joke.

So, the question for any of you with experience on these formulas (however small it might be), is: Is this physics behavior on GTREvo right? Do they really behave "more or less" like this?

Again the simple answer to this should be along these lines…
Yes, they do behave “more or less” like this as guys with real live experience on them testify to it.


The 1st and second replies I got in this topic went more or less how I expected, ok they do toke a considerable lengh regarding the 312T time around the Nord, but then, as already typed, it was my error putting it there.

I must confess that I didn't tried the FBMW that much... but, going over those bumpy corners of the Nord the amount of grip and turning capacity I was obtaining from a F3000 on the Nord just made me quite... like, nahhh, no way Jo, no f#% way… even with a lot of downforce, that wheel should have been on the air
Thinking of it, for instances, formulas on the Karrocel, shouldn’t be able to do the inside line… well, at least I wouldn’t be the one paying for the damage

Here I specified a little bit better what was my problem with these formulas, although I must admit the Nord isn’t a race track for it, but anyway…
We know (in this game) they do work well around it (at least the F3000). Many of the turns on the Nord have serious bumps on the apex or near it so going over them with serious Gs over and over should have at least a mechanical price and perhaps a bigger “physical” one (result in more unbalance)… but again it has been pointed out that it is 95% correct, I can leave with that, leave and learn.


After this 4th post (my 2nd), the topic went “berserk”, English isn’t my 1st language, so it might be some communication difficulty of my part, so I’m sorry for any misunderstanding.

Damian Dainhumain

The 1st part of the 5th post was informative and thank you for it, I learned that the specifications on the game are a bit like those auto magazine specifications. Then, all went lose…

You would be surprised how much grip a real race car has, they have a lot of grip and front turn in, maybe if you try driving one you wil understand

I don’t know what you meant with “real race cars”, open wheelers? F3000?
If yes, indeed as stated I don’t have experience with those (unless a Kart is classified as one).

Now if with “real race cars” you meant any race going car, then another "bird things"…

For all you care, I could be Santa and go to work on my Stratos before doing my run on the sleigh...

If there is one thing I learned over the decades on the network is that we never know who is on the other side, never… it can be GW Bush, Bin Laden, we never know… one thing is certain, on the INET many talk but few walk

Ryan Callan

If you ask the professional drivers who test these games, which racing game is the closest to reality (aside from iRacing) they will tell you RACE 07 is.

I only own GTR2 and GTREvo (wish includes Race07), I do have rFactor but as my time on a computer is limited, I don’t have experience with it (had to a make an option, maybe with rfactor 2).

Indeed I feel equally at ”home” with the wtcc and the Radical physics (the last one feels like a Kart with a big bike engine). The FWD model feels very well, anyone who has taken to the limit a FWD “box” knows that many of the reactions to expect are indeed there (something around this lines could be equally said about RWD).

Regarding the “professional drivers” opinion, in general I do agree with you, although one as to take it with a grain of salt when for instances asking Augusto Farfus about a wtcc physcs on Race07 when we all know there are interests that unite FIA wtcc and SimBin.

Just because it is less difficult than you think it should be, does not mean that it is an unrealistic game
I value the professional drivers opinions

Hmm… English, must be my English.
Nowhere In my post I said it was "too easy" or "too difficult" regarding the formulas. I used the word easy betewn “ “ regarding my experience with a TM engine Kart, and I did type that it wasn’t “easy”. I do concede that I’ve implied that the suspension reaction on the formulas was too easy… but that is considerably different from stating the game is too easy and unrealistic as an all.

About the “professional drivers”…
We are clear about that (see above), just let me point out that we aren’t including lorry and cab drivers on it (sorry guys).

Bram Hengeveld

But tell me, when was the last time you drove a real Formula 3000 and a Formula BMW in real life so you conclude something like that?

I see I touched on a susceptible subject, I’m sorry too…

As I think I clearly typed on my 1st post, I’ve no experience in open wheel cars… and I didn’t conclude anything, I wondered , I asked and at most a did a conjecture, wish someone promptly pointed out as possibly being “incorrect”.

You have to see that after many, many years accompanying motorized sports as an all (bikes very much included) and most of time being on the side of the one who pays the bills, I take it with a grain of salt when someone can do 5 laps at “attack” pace on the Nord with a F3000 as I immediately think who will pay for the damn bills, the chassis must be in very much 2nd hand, the suspension isn’t a suspension anymore and so on…

Real open wheel racers have tested this game and one of them rated it a 95% real feel! The last 5% that is not simulated is fear.

Ok, I can go along with that, let me just add that if those number are anything to go by, those 5% can’t be only fear, it must include a big chunk of G forces and drivers physical shape since anyone who has done a crescent radios fast turn (Estoril’s comes to mind) or a brake & turn after a long straight knows those are very important too.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Lol, that i can't stand such questions, doesnt mean you are not entitled to have that opinion, its a forum so be our guest to discuss it

Fear is imho the only factor that can't be simulated yet. Everybody that ever has driven a real race car (at the wheel or as a passenger) knows what i mean. For instance the behaviour on public servers where no respect is shown to other drivers is the consequence of the lack of fear you experience:

• The fear to get injured or killed when you crash
• The fear of having to pay for the damage of a million dollar car

The last one may look funny but there are a lot of privateer-drivers in the real world that will never push their car to the full limit because of that.

The payfactor is something that could be simulated imho. When speeding in the pitlane happens because people simply refuse to use the limiter should result in an instant DSQ, where you cannot re-join the server anymore for a certain amount of time (race day, or race weekend).

Big damage to the car because you arent cautios enough to look after it the right way should effect your carreer (see i-racing)..