Studio 397 Opens Up About rFactor 2 Tracks in Massive Q&A Session

Shovas · Oct 19, 2021

Durge Driven said:
rFactor 3 ? is that a joke ? who is going to code it ? You lot killed off rF3 with ISI ?

I don't think anyone thinks it would be a completely new codebase

rF3 might be built on a pre-existing platform like AMS2 was built on the Madness Engine.

rF3 might simply be rF2 but with a closed development period of a couple of years, like AMS2, to just focus on rebuilding individual components so they work right.

But I suspect MG is developing a platform like Madness Engine and will eventually just use that and port rF2 over to it and call it rF3. Given that they're already on Unreal Engine maybe that + some custom modules will be their platform. This would take time, mind you, and rF2 will be with us for a couple of more years yet, I would bet.

Who knows, rFactor as a brand and name might be done, maybe it'll be called something else more marketable. MG seems like that kind of company.

Shovas · Oct 19, 2021

tr1v1um said:
I am not sure if we read the same Q&A, but there are a few interesting points in there if you read carefully. Some of the features for the Nascar game will most likely end up in rF2. Considering how messed up the FCY stuff in rF2 is, I guess they will port those fixes as the Nascar game uses rF2 AI aswell. Everything else would be a shot in the own foot. My other guess for features that will be transfered are dynamic track temps or wind. Anyway, we will know more when the NDA for the Nascar game ends.

I did read the whole thing and yes they say they're going to fix some things but most requests are the 'nice' way of saying "nope". And it's like that with every interview I've seen with S397.

I'm not even saying they're wrong in rejecting most things and it might be they have a long-term plan with MG they're sticking to but not telling us yet.

tr1v1um said:
Other than that, what does a new name bring? You still need to pay new lisences and develop the software. And AMS2 is actually the perfect example that it isn't as easy as it sounds to just release something new and I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that rF2 is the game that needs to catch up. AMS2 is on the complete opposite spectrum of rF2 - very nice content selection, a few very nice features, but abysmal handling, not even at the level or AC or ACC. I don't know what people are smoking but AMS2 never convinces me that I am driving a car and the rubber band AI is certainly not better than the break stomping AI within rF2.

Oh, funny, I think AMS2 surpassed rF2 as an overall sim with the Racin' USA DLC (and the fixes that came with that version). Yes, rF2 still has a preferable tyre model, but AMS2 with rFuktor 4.4 and the latest ffb improvements really gets very close and more importantly can be very enjoyable right now. Even the default ffb is enjoyable.

I haven't seen rubber banding ai? I have seen first lap heroes (ie. overly fast compared to their qual times) but after that they settle in and are competitive. Usually, though, I'm either getting farther ahead of the car behind or farther behind the car ahead, which is right, that's what should happen based purely on lap times.

bozakn · Oct 19, 2021

Shovas said:
I did read the whole thing and yes they say they're going to fix some things but most requests are the 'nice' way of saying "nope". And it's like that with every interview I've seen with S397.

I'm not even saying they're wrong in rejecting most things and it might be they have a long-term plan with MG they're sticking to but not telling us yet.

Oh, funny, I think AMS2 surpassed rF2 as an overall sim with the Racin' USA DLC (and the fixes that came with that version). Yes, rF2 still has a preferable tyre model, but AMS2 with rFuktor 4.4 and the latest ffb improvements really gets very close and more importantly can be very enjoyable right now. Even the default ffb is enjoyable.

I haven't seen rubber banding ai? I have seen first lap heroes (ie. overly fast compared to their qual times) but after that they settle in and are competitive. Usually, though, I'm either getting farther ahead of the car behind or farther behind the car ahead, which is right, that's what should happen based purely on lap times.

"Yes, rF2 still has a preferable tyre model, but AMS2 with rFuktor 4.4 and the latest ffb improvements really gets very close ".
This is a pretty depressing conclusion looking from a modern sim developer point of view.
They've got all the mathematical/physics know-how, input from real world drivers, major sponsors, lots of resources, yet somehow a sim that is almost a decade old is still on the very top of the simulation realism, handling wise.
"Really gets very close to rF2" - c'mon...Imagine somebody saying today "Oh my god, this is almost on GTR2 level".
Whenever something about rF2 emerges on this site, everybody starts bashing it - "Oh when will it finally die, it's a dead horse, long loading times, bad UI, bla, bla" - this is getting repetitive and boring.
Simracers should point a finger in the industry's direction and ask one question - Why won't you make a commercial sim that will crush rFactor 2 in the handling department ?
But I guess nobody cares about the handling anymore.

tr1v1um · Oct 19, 2021

bozakn said:
"Yes, rF2 still has a preferable tyre model, but AMS2 with rFuktor 4.4 and the latest ffb improvements really gets very close ".
This is a pretty depressing conclusion looking from a modern sim developer point of view.
They've got all the mathematical/physics know-how, input from real world drivers, major sponsors, lots of resources, yet somehow a sim that is almost a decade old is still on the very top of the simulation realism, handling wise.
"Really gets very close to rF2" - c'mon...Imagine somebody saying today "Oh my god, this is almost on GTR2 level".
Whenever something about rF2 emerges on this site, everybody starts bashing it - "Oh when will it finally die, it's a dead horse, long loading times, bad UI, bla, bla" - this is getting repetitive and boring.
Simracers should point a finger in the industry's direction and ask one question - Why won't you make a commercial sim that will crush rFactor 2 in the handling department ?
But I guess nobody cares about the handling anymore.

Amen. The truth is, there is very little where rF2 really stands out as being the best in business besides the general handling and FFB. The rest is mediocre or average at best with areas that are way below genre standard (hello 5.1 surround sound). Yep, there are issues with the tire model as in any sim and yes, there should be dynamic track temps and what not that affect those tires. But let's be honest, the reason why people still fire up this old sim is due to the fact that there hasn't been released anything in the last couple of years that tricks your mind that much, that you believe that you are driving a car. I guess the times when devs cared that much for fidelity are over. Now it's a matter of car collections, GT3s and a great screenshot mode. Everything else becomes secondary. And I guess, there will be no sim that kills rF2 in the handling departement as ISI burnt their fingers with it.

Kyuubeey · Oct 19, 2021

I still can't exactly figure out why people are convinced rF2 is the "most realistic" consumer sim. Does someone want to shed some light on that?

Best FFB you can still argue because none of the sims/hardware do it in a particularly great way, but "best physics"?

bozakn · Oct 19, 2021

Kyuubeey said:
I still can't exactly figure out why people are convinced rF2 is the "most realistic" consumer sim. Does someone want to shed some light on that?

Best FFB you can still argue because none of the sims/hardware do it in a particularly great way, but "best physics"?

As our mutual simracing colleague above you posted:
"But let's be honest, the reason why people still fire up this old sim is due to the fact that there hasn't been released anything in the last couple of years that tricks your mind that much, that you believe that you are driving a car".
Couldn't have it said better myself.
I respect every reasonable opinion, but I think that most people that don't like rF2's handling just didn't have the time/patience to appreciate/setup this sim with the the best hardware money can buy.
Even with the mid-range belt wheel it can produce sensational results.
Back in the day I found this review that sums it up perfectly:
"I've raced in real life for 20 years in the SCCA. Other sims don't compare in terms of physics. If you want great graphics, go with Assetto Corsa, if you want to drop into a race online at any given moment, go with iRacing, but if you want the best FEELING sim that gets as close as you can get to the real thing, rFactor2 is what you want to spend your time on. Don't get me wrong, it's worth owning all three sims so that you can drive and race at whatever track you want if it's available. One of the many reasons I subscribe to iRacing is so i can race Pro4 off-road trucks! When I want to improve my race craft and practice real race simulation, rFactor2 is where I spend a huge majority of my time. There's a reason why top professionals in F1, IMSA, Indy all used "rFactor Pro" for their crazy expensive professional sim rigs. Although rF2 is lagging behind in terms of VR support and graphics, it's coming along and will continue to be my go to for sim racing because of its superior physics. I tell my friends who ask me about which sim to get and I tell them to get them all, but only those who have raced in real life will appreciate rF2 the most."
The last sentence says it all.

Kyuubeey · Oct 19, 2021

bozakn said:
As our mutual simracing colleague above you posted:
"But let's be honest, the reason why people still fire up this old sim is due to the fact that there hasn't been released anything in the last couple of years that tricks your mind that much, that you believe that you are driving a car".
Couldn't have it said better myself.
I respect every reasonable opinion, but I think that most people that don't like rF2's handling just didn't have the time/patience to appreciate/setup this sim with the the best hardware money can buy.
Even with the mid-range belt wheel it can produce sensational results.
Back in the day I found this review that sums it up perfectly:
"I've raced in real life for 20 years in the SCCA. Other sims don't compare in terms of physics. If you want great graphics, go with Assetto Corsa, if you want to drop into a race online at any given moment, go with iRacing, but if you want the best FEELING sim that gets as close as you can get to the real thing, rFactor2 is what you want to spend your time on. Don't get me wrong, it's worth owning all three sims so that you can drive and race at whatever track you want if it's available. One of the many reasons I subscribe to iRacing is so i can race Pro4 off-road trucks! When I want to improve my race craft and practice real race simulation, rFactor2 is where I spend a huge majority of my time. There's a reason why top professionals in F1, IMSA, Indy all used "rFactor Pro" for their crazy expensive professional sim rigs. Although rF2 is lagging behind in terms of VR support and graphics, it's coming along and will continue to be my go to for sim racing because of its superior physics. I tell my friends who ask me about which sim to get and I tell them to get them all, but only those who have raced in real life will appreciate rF2 the most."
The last sentence says it all.

I see. So nobody has actually built a car in rFactor 2 and measured how well it correlates to a real one?

Amir Vodokotlic · Oct 19, 2021

Kyuubeey said:
I see. So nobody has actually built a car in rFactor 2 and measured how well it correlates to a real one?

20 years in SCCA is not enough

Its like pre med student saying they are doctor.

Those long essays posts that have nothing to do with actual rf2 data under the hood always crack me up.

The trust me bro "my sim of choice is better than your sim"

Kyuubeey · Oct 19, 2021

Amir Vodokotlic said:
20 years in SCCA is not enough

Its like pre med student saying they are doctor.

Those long essays posts that have nothing to do with actual rf2 data under the hood always crack me up.

The trust me bro "my sim of choice is better than your sim"

I don't understand. rF2 has been used professionally in SCCA for 20 years?

durielk · Oct 20, 2021

davehenrie said:
sigh....what are the symptoms. Most likely a json file got corrupted. (note, I said likely)
rename your userdata folder in windows and let rf2 rebuild itself.

I've removed steam completely from the HD and had it rebuild it's self .... and did a bunch of more useless stuff before I tried that. The thing is, Steam keeps all your stuff on their cloud and just reinstalls the same corrupt files, whichever one it is. You cannot rebuild anything. See the problem?

davehenrie · Oct 20, 2021

durielk said:
I've removed steam completely from the HD and had it rebuild it's self .... and did a bunch of more useless stuff before I tried that. The thing is, Steam keeps all your stuff on their cloud and just reinstalls the same corrupt files, whichever one it is. You cannot rebuild anything. See the problem?

Steam isn't the problem.(99% of the time) rF2 saves information AFTER racing, be it a practice session, race weekend, online or offline. Much of that information is saved in the various .json files. If rF2 crashes, or is otherwise interrupted, the information in those files either is not saved, or corrupted data is saved. That is what causes the failure to boot.(again, in MOST cases)
You were very close in your assessment, just missed the target. rF2 has the same problem as steam, if you use Steam to un-install and re-install rF2, you are not getting everything deleted. Anything added to rF2, car mods, sounds, tracks, etc. if they are not official S397 content, they all get left behind, so the problem child could still be waiting on your system. To fully remove rF2, you need to un-install via Steam, then exit and use windows to completely delete everything in the rF2 folder. Get ready for a huge download when you do this however.
When we recommend deleting/renaming the UserData folder, that is the shotgun approach. When new files are installed by rF2, you can pretty much be assured they work correctly or else every user would be having problems. It is the files that get left behind that often cause the issues. If you want to precisely find the culprit. then rename each .json file, one-at-a-time, and reboot. Once rF2 replaces the offending file, everything should run normally. Renaming the Userdata folder instead of deleting that folder saves you the time needed to find each .json file and saves your controller profiles which you can copy back once everything is back to normal.

Kyuubeey · Oct 20, 2021

Lmao @ the idea that Steam will just host hundreds/thousands? of potential* terabytes of people's individual game files on their cloud and not just re-download from a generic source every time.

The issue is as is said above; not because Steam keeps anyone's entire game files on their cloud.

*Added potential; if every user downloaded every game there'd probably be (amount of users * amount of game data in TB/PB) on the cloud which is just crazy. The actual limit is in the hundreds of mb for cloud data IIRC.

davehenrie · Oct 20, 2021

Kyuubeey said:
Lmao @ the idea that Steam will just host hundreds/thousands? of terabytes of people's individual game files on their cloud and not just re-download from a generic source every time.

The issue is as is said above; not because Steam keeps anyone's entire game files on their cloud.

At one time, I thought Steam did handle all that, it would only take a relatively small file that compares each file in the sim vs a control version at Steam. Then just the mis-matched parts/files could be downloaded. But I was schooled,

by Laz and others as to the process. rF2 rebuilds itself, or so I've been told.

being a conspiracy nut, I think we would all be shocked to learn how much of our privacy is invaded by large tech companies. I used to send file updates to a select number of beta testers and when I inspected how many times the file was downloaded, there would often be 1 more copy that was grabbed anonymously by my email provider. I'm assuming to verify no copyright infringed data....or worse... So I never sent passwords via the same system, just to hopefully keep a little more of that work private. Sorry, rambling.
to conclude, rF2 began life when STEAM was just evolving beyond it's HALFLIFE roots. So the brains at ISI created a method that allowed rF2 to hopefully remain functional. Hasn't always worked as planned though.

durielk · Oct 20, 2021

davehenrie said:
Steam isn't the problem.(99% of the time) rF2 saves information AFTER racing, be it a practice session, race weekend, online or offline. Much of that information is saved in the various .json files. ....

You didn't read what I posted, I removed everything from the HD, steam, rF2, AC, R3E. Everything was removed, directorys, files, ALL OF IT, EVERYTHING.
You guys don't know what your talking about, proven! Do you work for rF2, or Steam, or Valve? If you don't you don't know what they do. Personally, I don't even think they know what they do, mostly cause they probably work in teams or groups, they don't know what the other teams/groups are doing. Just like we don't know who pee'd on the bed in the WH.
When I went and reinstalled STEAM, then rF2 completely all new DL. When I started rF2, I was surprized that all my setups were.... still there. Which means that what ever was causing the problem.... was still there. AND IT WAS! ... and my setups were stored somewhere by STEAM, rF2, or Valve. Someone is using my setups to win the race series!!!!
Then the finger pointing starts, I don't know who is responsible, no one helped me fix it, it's not running, it is dead to me. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ANY USE.
Your a bunch of HACKS!

Durge Driven · Oct 20, 2021

Sorry the trouble you have

From a new install the only thing I can think of is 2 things

1. re-Install all 4 files in the Support\Runtimes

Personally I use the setup below on both W10 and W11

Latest Visual C++ Redistributable Runtimes All-in-One Feb 2024 Download

This archive contains the latest version (February 2024) of all VCRedist Visual Studio C++ runtimes, installable with a single click by running the i

www.techpowerup.com

click once and installs all runtimes from 2005 to 2022....I can say runs any sims from GPL to latest

2. Possible if you used notepad to edit JSON files and saved association rF2 won't boot

If you have associated JSON ....
Run
cmd
regedit

Go to
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Explorer\FileExts\
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Classes

Look for " .JSON "

Check ( Default) strings it should not be set
Remove any other strings

Can't think of much else would stop a new install from running

davehenrie · Oct 20, 2021

durielk said:
You didn't read what I posted, I removed everything from the HD, steam, rF2, AC, R3E. Everything was removed, directorys, files, ALL OF IT, EVERYTHING.
You guys don't know what your talking about, proven! Do you work for rF2, or Steam, or Valve? If you don't you don't know what they do. Personally, I don't even think they know what they do, mostly cause they probably work in teams or groups, they don't know what the other teams/groups are doing. Just like we don't know who pee'd on the bed in the WH.
When I went and reinstalled STEAM, then rF2 completely all new DL. When I started rF2, I was surprized that all my setups were.... still there. Which means that what ever was causing the problem.... was still there. AND IT WAS! ... and my setups were stored somewhere by STEAM, rF2, or Valve. Someone is using my setups to win the race series!!!!
Then the finger pointing starts, I don't know who is responsible, no one helped me fix it, it's not running, it is dead to me. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ANY USE.
Your a bunch of HACKS!

AND YOU did not read my reply. I don't work for any team, I'm a user just like you. We have seen, over the past 5 years all the problems & moare you initially but vaguely described, so I gave you the quickest solution for MOST problems. Your initial response was that you removed Steam. I then verified what could be left behind. So it's not a matter of reading, but of the amount of information we have to respond to. Fixing issues often means first eliminating what to many is obvious, so we often start simple and then progress to a hopefully correct solution.
And, while I understand you are frustrated, I have no time or patience for one who complains and then barks at any response. Have a nice day.

Kyuubeey · Oct 20, 2021

durielk said:
You didn't read what I posted, I removed everything from the HD, steam, rF2, AC, R3E. Everything was removed, directorys, files, ALL OF IT, EVERYTHING.
You guys don't know what your talking about, proven! Do you work for rF2, or Steam, or Valve? If you don't you don't know what they do. Personally, I don't even think they know what they do, mostly cause they probably work in teams or groups, they don't know what the other teams/groups are doing. Just like we don't know who pee'd on the bed in the WH.
When I went and reinstalled STEAM, then rF2 completely all new DL. When I started rF2, I was surprized that all my setups were.... still there. Which means that what ever was causing the problem.... was still there. AND IT WAS! ... and my setups were stored somewhere by STEAM, rF2, or Valve. Someone is using my setups to win the race series!!!!
Then the finger pointing starts, I don't know who is responsible, no one helped me fix it, it's not running, it is dead to me. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ANY USE.
Your a bunch of HACKS!

It's pretty obvious that you just have local files left-over on your drive. Most games will do something like that; you need to manually delete them. It's been said already in this thread.

Also nice paranoid schizophrenia.

durielk · Oct 20, 2021

Where would these files be located?

durielk · Oct 20, 2021

Where would these files be located? The HD was cleared of steam, rF2, AC, etc. Are they in the W10 directory?
I looked for HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curre ntVersion\Explorer\FileExts\ on C:/ and it couldn't find it.

How would a json file be corrupt, when it does not exist?
The whole HD was cleared of any steam, rf2, AC, etc. What is it about this that you can't understand?

Explain the above in detail, or stop replying, please.

andrewaugust93 · Oct 20, 2021

Everytime you complain about the abhorrent UI of RF2, you can always expect RF2 diehards to come out guns blazing ready to defend their favorite sim. A good sim is a sum of all parts, criticism is helpful feedback. Stop defending bad decisions.

Studio 397 Opens Up About rFactor 2 Tracks in Massive Q&A Session

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