Have Your Say – VR or No VR?

Milker above raised some good practical issues about why VR is not always good or practical. People do get motion sick, sometimes you do have to be aware of your environment and yes, if you have an expensive rim with a display etc then why wouldnt you like to look at it?

For these reasons it's not always going to be the best but then there are other reasons that are a little more strawman. To get properly setup for VR and to get the best experience can take some effort. I can race with very good resolution, good framerates in what I use, I don't sweat and I have no issues with managing pitstops and interacting with the controls that I need to. If you are a screen user and still using a mouse to navigate around in the middle of a race to setup a pitstop, perhaps you could also be looking at better ways to do things.

Why would you compare a low end headset to a high end 1440p 144hz triple setup? It's a good argument if your only option was a low end headset but if you were as serious about VR as your high end monitors then you would be looking at a high end headset.

I also dont have a screen I can race on so it's VR only. I have had triple 24's, 27's and 42's. VR certainly suits me, I dont have any of the real issues that make it not practical and with some effort overcame any of the other issues to make it as usable as it needs to be when you cant see your button.

In the G2, I absolutely love seeing and interacting with each cars on screen display taking away the need for anything I used to have, external display wise, before VR.

As a Rift S user, I'm not using VR for driving / flight sims due to the lack of clarity at distance, and of fine details in car/cockpit. The spatial awareness is incredible and makes a huge difference, but I'd rather play at 4K with head tracking.

Flat worlders, and I was one of them, are all about max FPS where as VRers are about 90 all day long. Get fpsVR on steam and buy into the 90's resolution. I did and I will never look back.

I want VR. But my 1070 would probably melt if I tried running VR. I'm going to go the bridesmaid route and set up triples. I know the graphics card can handle that... (in potato mode)

- I'm just gonna repost something I wrote here almost one year ago, on a similar topic -

I have a CV1 for 2+ years now. I have been upgrading my PC and currently I can make it to run at 90 fps most of times, which feels considerably better.
It's still a mid-range PC, though.
For me, as a simracer, immersion is everything and there's no other thing I've tried that can get even close to the VR experience, in that regard.
Screen-door effect, narrow FOV, none of these things bothers me much.
Sure it's not the most practical thing and, in the summer, things do get hot and uncomfortable. I hardly race during Summer ( living in Portugal, that means some straight months but, hey, the weather is good to ride my bike, go to the beach, etc).

Very few experiences made such an impact on me, tech wise:
- The first time I fired up the Timex 2048 my dad gave me when I was a little kid,
- The first time I saw a PC (286?) running Hot Run in a CGA monitor, on a friend's house;
- " " " I played on an Amiga, on my dad's friend house ( man, that was insane! What a machine! My dad bought one 2 months later)
- When I got my CV1, fired it up and found myself inside a Ferrari 330 P4. Pure Magic!

I've gotta say that , for the first 3 months or so I refrained myself from using VR, simply because I didn´t want to lose that magical feeling, as things become trivial with constant use.

That wow effect has now gone but it's still a unique experience.

For all of you that never had a chance to try it, I really hope you can find a way to experience it. It's not for everybody, but it really can be a game changer.

Wilko Jones said:

I want VR. But my 1070 would probably melt if I tried running VR. I'm going to go the bridesmaid route and set up triples. I know the graphics card can handle that... (in potato mode)

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I have a Vega 56 8Gb, a Ryzen 5 3600 and a CV1. I run 90fps in AMS2 all day long. In RF2 most of the time and even in ACC I can play decently ( with some considerable compromises graphics wise, but still manageable)
Dirt Rally 2.0? bring it on
Assetto Corsa? easy

Tryed Vr in flightsim's and and pcars2 was really nice!!
Guys ive raced with have had VR and the amount of proplems with VR in sim games ive heard from them when doing laps trying to join get settings etc really put me off...trying VR in Sim Racing. plus i only know about 10 or more people in a massive about of communitys i'm in Use VR.
plus its only like 0.3 % of steam user's and its overrated some cool VR games out there though.
And alot of Ex VR users i know went back to triples anyways lol

stickdeath1980 said:

Tryed Vr in flightsim's and and pcars2 was really nice!!
Guys ive raced with have had VR and the amount of proplems with VR in sim games ive heard from them when doing laps trying to join get settings etc really put me off...trying VR in Sim Racing. plus i only know about 10 or more people in a massive about of communitys i'm in Use VR.
plus its only like 0.3 % of steam user's and its overrated some cool VR games out there though.
And alot of Ex VR users i know went back to triples anyways lol

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"While the global stats on its use on Steam puts the percentage of VR in the single digits, most sim racing polls put the percentage of users who at least own a headset in the 25-35% range."
Steam's VR usage has nothing to do with sim racing !

"And alot of Ex VR users i know went back to triples anyways lol"
By far most VR users stay at VR and don't return to screens.

"Guys ive raced with have had VR and the amount of proplems with VR in sim games ive heard from them when doing laps trying to join get settings"
No problems at all, I have a xbox controller laying next to me, it goes as fast as with a screen. Changing settings/joining servers etc. with AMS2. Depends on the sim, with AC for example you have to use a mouse for that, which works okay in VR also as long as it's wireless. I don't want to miss VR for solely this subject lol.

A bit like DD wheels. Not everyone can afford VR. Or the equipment needed to run it well.

No VR, no buy, is a bit of a dick thing to say IMHO.

norbs said:

A bit like DD wheels. Not everyone can afford VR. Or the equipment needed to run it well.

No VR, no buy, is a bit of a dick thing to say IMHO.

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Why is it a dick thing to say?

If you have a sim rig without a monitor and you're used to driving in VR. It's close to impossible to buy the game. People say that to let the developers know that in >2021 it is absolutely necessary to implement VR in a sim racing game. Nothing more nothing less..

IceColdBeard_24 said:

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This entire thread is click bait.

Are Fords really better than Chevy's???? Some say they are... Go!

It's not that I'm a 'No VR, No Buy' kind of guy, I can still appreciate sim racing on a monitor, but I just don't get anywhere near the same level of immersion or satisfaction out of it. I switched over to an Oculus CV1 five years ago (still using the same headset actually) and have never looked back. Well, that's not true. Having VR means I can look back now, but you know what I mean.

That said, I've spent far longer trying to get everything working in VR than I ever would have done on a monitor. Endless tweaking of settings to find the right balance between performance and acceptable levels of potato, especially when streaming/recording. Unexplained stutters and freezes which have ruined some of my online races and forced me to retire (in the final 20 minutes of an 8 hour enduro, for example). A baffling lack of support and often having to figure every little detail out for myself because VR is still definitely the minority compared to single and triple monitors.

Also, VR is ridiculously intensive on your system and you need to be willing to take a drop in resolution, detail, special effects, field of view and comfort if you want to race with a headset, particularly on older GFX cards. Sims like ACC and DIRT Rally 2.0 just add to the problem as they are so poorly optimised it makes you wonder if you're missing something, but no, they are just that terrible and there's nothing you can do about it.

If you can look past all of that and don't mind compromising then the sense of immersion and spatial awareness that you gain is phenomenal. Because of the 3d and depth perception, your brain tells you that you're physically there, sat in the car, panel to panel with that other guy next to you at 250+ kph. It's a rush like no other. I feel like I can drive much more consistently and have a far greater understanding of what the car is doing underneath me. I can feel my way around the circuit, compared to on a monitor which most of the time is just adding set markers to your muscle memory. Sim racing is unique in that the peripherals you use are physically the same as what you see in-game. Steering wheel, shifter, pedals. Your VR experience matches up with your physical experience and it's just...magic.

It's not for everyone, of course. Some people can't get past the motion sickness whereas others can only do an hour at most before the headset becomes too warm or uncomfortable. You might be a new parent and need to keep one eye on that pesky little kid out of the corner of your eye so can't risk closing yourself out from the world. You might not have the hardware to even run VR in the first place and these days it's pretty much impossible to find an affordable GPU unfortunately.

For me though, VR is the only way to race. It's an escape like no other and the memories my brain forms from the experiences I have are very much real. That night race at Silverstone when the rain started pouring down after the first stint and everyone scrambled back to the pits? When the rain drops starting running up the windscreen and I almost looped it on the kerb coming down the hangar straight? I was there, man, right in the middle of that moment, I was there. You can't convince me otherwise.

Here's why VR will never fully catch on. I remember reading an article a few years ago pertaining to VR. They sighted some super high number of people.. around 50% or 60% of the population that can't do VR because of nausea (motion sickness). When you compound that number by the number of people who don't want a giant hunk of uncomfortable plastic latched to their head for hours at a time, you quickly understand the biggest obstacles VR faces for the masses.

If a business cant fully mass produce something and make a ton of money on it, it becomes less likely it will success in the long term. When you look at sim racing and the triple screen craze.. (I'm using triple 27s), that really didnt start to become a "thing" until the last batch of racing sim titles. rFactor1 and GTR2 never had support for triples (yeah, I know I said rFactor1). Even some modern day sim racing titles (especially from Codemasters) can't be bothered with implementing triple support. Hell, there has yet to be a rally title that supports true triple screen adjustments. When you ask why not? they push back and say Why should we? The masses don't use triple screens.

Anyway, it's all about what is profitable. And honestly with the drawbacks of VR, it's just probably not very profitable.

Peace, Defender

When I bought and put together my first sim rig around 2 and a half years ago it was 100% VR (Rift S). Which I loved. However, I recently added a Samsung G9 Ultrawide (with a 3080 Ti) and it has some important advantages:

Resolution - I can much more easily pick my breaking point (I realise this is probably a limitation of the Rift S resolution)
Comfort - I have to use headphones and having to use them with a VR headset in a pain in the ass (again, a headset with decent audio would solve this)
Convenience - Only having to deal with your monitor and not a monitor plus headset is just more convenient when you're in game menus etc (this is game dependant)
More games - There's currently obviously more games supported (well, all of them) than there is with VR
Peripherals - Being able to see buttons/gear sticks etc rather than using muscle memory is a definite bonus

Lastly, having a Samsung G9 on your rig does make it look cool as f*ck

So basically since I got the G9 that's all I've used. Might as well put the Rift S on eBay.

Having said all that, a properly sorted VR headset would beat a monitor - however awesome the monitor. So when that VR headset with 4K+ resolution, a realistic wide field of view, fast refresh rates, great audio and comfort comes along - I'll be picking one up!

I guess in the spirit of impartiality I should list the benefits of VR:

The sense of actually being in the car is awesome - everything is correctly to scale, both inside the car and outside it
Always having the actual steering wheel of the car you're driving is cool (will save some folks a fortune on collecting wheels )
Even an HP Reverb G2 would be half the price of a Samsung G9 so they're good value for money

I guess the first point it the important one, the immersion (although an ultra wide comes closer than I thought it would). Sim racing is basically the perfect vehicle () for VR. What with it being static.

I should also add - It's important that developers understand that sim racing games need to be easily switched between a monitor with say a 5120/1440 resolution and then a VR headset. Because I can imagine a lot of sim racers having both. Currently it's very frustrating. You basically have to set your game up as new each time you switch from one to the other - so games need the ability to save a monitor profile and separate VR profile while keeping all other settings the same (Force feedback, button mappings etc).

Some are better than others here. Autombilista 2 was the closest to getting it right (but odd things would still happen). With iRacing on the other had even if you only have Rift software installed on your PC it will just crash if you try and play in non VR (at least at 5120/1440 res, which works fine now I've uninstalled Oculus home). So until the games work seamlessly with either you're basically stuck with one or the other.

Deponds how much time do I have. If Im gonna play quick race in Assetto Corsa I use 55" OLED with LaserClip (TrackIR cheap alternative) but for good immersion I enjoy in VR from Samsung - have 90hz so driving or flying in DCS is stunning. Everyone who is thinking that this is the right time to buy/try VR and doesnt waste money I gave them GREEN LIGHT! Virtual Reality maybe still isnt looking like in 2D but our brain after couple seconds forget about itt and we enjoy every single second. Many times I relize in lst second that my passanger seat isnt real and its not best place to put my drink/coffie, cause its not there IRL... Xd

Mike1304 said:

Pimax:
1. Check
2. ??? Maybe: nothing in my head
3. Check
4. Check

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I was literally about to respond with almost the same answer haha.

RCHeliguy said:

This entire thread is click bait.

Are Fords really better than Chevy's???? Some say they are... Go!

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Glad you asked.

VR headsets are not a great option for oval racing (not enough peripheral vision) or for endurance racing (just too hot and heavy for multiple hour stints)