Ian Bell | Straight4Games and Hyper-Realistic Screenshots

Pete Conway · Dec 5, 2022

I think that some posters here have a head issue!
What's it to you if you don't like the game/sim the studio produces... just don't buy it.
There's a million 'Rougelike' and FPS games everywhere, I don't care about them because I don't want them, but I don't go onto websites and cry every time I hear a developer's name or see their posts.

TheRealCeeBee · Dec 5, 2022

So you took time from your day to complain about the people that complain instead.. I applaud you..

pai · Dec 5, 2022

Great, development for Automobilista 3's engine is under way!

Evi · Dec 5, 2022

Damage Inc said:
jaysus the fecking toxic shite here is mind boggling....

If they can bring something like PC2 to the table with those graphics I'll be happy (maybe it'll get me away from rF2).

I think they suspect the result might be not like PC2, but less than PC3.

the_last_name_left · Dec 5, 2022

Richard Wilks said:
Care to elaborate what "core features" was the madness engine lacking? I will subscribe that PCars3 was a disappointment, but it was more a game priorities thing, rather than game engine.

Not necessarily only the engine but what was built around and on top of it. The engine can look fabulous. One can perhaps better ask what it has that would attract plenty of folks over a sustained period? The fact it hasn't made any prolonged impact speaks for itself as to what the user-base thinks of it - and that it is lacking?

Long time since I even had it installed so, bit hazy on details of what issues were. But.....personally I'd put it down to a rigidity in its design which barely changed from PC1 to AMS2: fundamentally no modding but also no new content and no development, no progress, no construction, no structure. [AMS2 is doing a much better job of that, obviously, but still suffers because of it].

I mean, for instance, rubbish cameras absent even mouse-look. How can anyone do anything exciting with a single exterior "TV" camera? And that has still (!) not developed one iota even in AMS2. What use can anyone make of that for content? One non-adjustable camera!!!!! And nobody can do anything to change any of it.

I find that lack of flexibility and care throughout it, tbh - and the camera issue suggests how built-in it is. More time spent on fancy videos than the camera controls, more concern with superficialities (how does it look?!) versus proper functionality (a terrible garage system, a mess of car setup screens, a mess of FFB settings) and all sorts of limits on things like race parameters - all things that had been done better elsewhere already.

And that's versus what was promised: All that guff about it being built for e-sports? Without a proper camera!! I'd consider myself the target audience and it left me cold, ultimately feeling shortchanged and frustrated (as it did plenty of others, apparently). That it can look nice and sometimes drives ok quickly becomes meh! - that's the absolute minimum required. It doesn't drive all that great and there's nothing in there that isn't done better elsewhere and plenty that isn't there at all. And it never went anywhere after that: there really isn't much one can do with it.

The big successes have been either very open platforms encouraging modding and third-party development (rFactor et al and AC) or continual in-house development on a fixed platform (iRacing).

PCCars 1/2 and PC/AMS is decent but they deserve their place well below the top-tier -- because they don't really deliver. And doubtless there is some prevalent bitterness about it, after so many promises. And contrary to what some folks here, more sims isn't necessarily "a good thing" - because it can spread revenue, away from the more deserving to the less so. It is a bit niche, market-wise.

What does HSO use, and why? What platforms do you mod for and engage with? Not ProjCars, right?

I'm sure those of us critical of PCars et al would happily buy into the next iteration - if it deserves it. But it can't be denied that plenty of folks feel they got their fingers burned a bit last time, largely by hype built-off of graphics. It's no surprise to me that people are wary this time around and feel as if, "Here we go again......" (though, granted, some of the cynicism is ridiculous - (there's always something of that)).

Why do you think ProjCars failed to make a big, ongoing impact? It surely isn't simply because of some personal animosity to Ian Bell et al?

Richard Wilks · Dec 5, 2022

the_last_name_left said:
Not necessarily only the engine but what was built around and on top of it. The engine can look fabulous. One can perhaps better ask what it has that would attract plenty of folks over a sustained period? The fact it hasn't made any prolonged impact speaks for itself as to what the user-base thinks of it - and that it is lacking?

Long time since I even had it installed so, bit hazy on details of what issues were. But.....personally I'd put it down to a rigidity in its design which barely changed from PC1 to AMS2: fundamentally no modding but also no new content and no development, no progress, no construction, no structure. [AMS2 is doing a much better job of that, obviously, but still suffers because of it].

I mean, for instance, rubbish cameras absent even mouse-look. How can anyone do anything exciting with a single exterior "TV" camera? And that has still (!) not developed one iota even in AMS2. What use can anyone make of that for content? One non-adjustable camera!!!!! And nobody can do anything to change any of it.

I find that lack of flexibility and care throughout it, tbh - and the camera issue suggests how built-in it is. More time spent on fancy videos than the camera controls, more concern with superficialities (how does it look?!) versus proper functionality (a terrible garage system, a mess of car setup screens, a mess of FFB settings) and all sorts of limits on things like race parameters - all things that had been done better elsewhere already.

And that's versus what was promised: All that guff about it being built for e-sports? Without a proper camera!! I'd consider myself the target audience and it left me cold, ultimately feeling shortchanged and frustrated (as it did plenty of others, apparently). That it can look nice and sometimes drives ok quickly becomes meh! - that's the absolute minimum required. It doesn't drive all that great and there's nothing in there that isn't done better elsewhere and plenty that isn't there at all. And it never went anywhere after that: there really isn't much one can do with it.

The big successes have been either very open platforms encouraging modding and third-party development (rFactor et al and AC) or continual in-house development on a fixed platform (iRacing).

PCCars 1/2 and PC/AMS is decent but they deserve their place well below the top-tier -- because they don't really deliver. And doubtless there is some prevalent bitterness about it, after so many promises. And contrary to what some folks here, more sims isn't necessarily "a good thing" - because it can spread revenue, away from the more deserving to the less so. It is a bit niche, market-wise.

What does HSO use, and why? What platforms do you mod for and engage with? Not ProjCars, right?

I'm sure those of us critical of PCars et al would happily buy into the next iteration - if it deserves it. But it can't be denied that plenty of folks feel they got their fingers burned a bit last time, largely by hype built-off of graphics. It's no surprise to me that people are wary this time around and feel as if, "Here we go again......" (though, granted, some of the cynicism is ridiculous - (there's always something of that)).

Why do you think ProjCars failed to make a big, ongoing impact? It surely isn't simply because of some personal animosity to Ian Bell et al?

I think we are mixing things here. ISO doesnt use project cars no, but thats because of simply no modding, and given that ISO is all about replicating classical real races with real fields, no game out there of the modern era can replicate that.

Now, if you are talking about users still using it years later, modding is a key thing in this. But that doesn't mean that the product was unsuccessfull. For devs, it doesn't matter much if their game is being used 20 years later, from a financial standpoint. It might mean something in terms of "legacy", but that does little for a genre as a whole. GPL is still being used to this day, does that help Simracing in any way?...

But here is the thing, Ian Bell never promised PCars to be modable.

Pete Conway · Dec 5, 2022

TheRealCeeBee said:
So you took time from your day to complain about the people that complain instead.. I applaud you..

Hey, thank you, that's the first positive thing you've posted in the whole thread.

pitkin · Dec 5, 2022

Pete Conway said:
I think that some posters here have a head issue!
What's it to you if you don't like the game/sim the studio produces... just don't buy it.
There's a million 'Rougelike' and FPS games everywhere, I don't care about them because I don't want them, but I don't go onto websites and cry every time I hear a developer's name or see their posts.

I'm sure devs don't enjoy seeing their work attacked on public forums. Maybe it will encourage them stop thinking it's okay to leave people with expensive, unused icons on their desktop due to abandoned and buggy releases.

Damage Inc · Dec 5, 2022

Vadara said:
Ian Bell is the definition of failing upwards. This guy has had three games to prove to us that he isn't full of **** and he's failed every single time.

3 games? Then you don't know anything about what games he's been involved with.

Richard Wilks · Dec 5, 2022

pitkin said:
I'm sure devs don't enjoy seeing their work attacked on public forums. Maybe it will encourage them stop thinking it's okay to leave people with expensive, unused icons on their desktop due to abandoned and buggy releases.

Some already learned how to make that not happen. Launch a buggy "beta" access program, make the users wait 3 years for the game to be in any acceptable state, then spend 2 or 3 more years selling DLC, while you tease features that will never come, and in the meantime sell this as "continuous support" while you play an incomplete old game for years to come. Sounds much better right!

mus0001 · Dec 5, 2022

We have already all these features in Assetto corsa, so even unreal engine 5 cannot handle AC. we just need more GT7 models lol

Pete Conway · Dec 5, 2022

pitkin said:
I'm sure devs don't enjoy seeing their work attacked on public forums. Maybe it will encourage them stop thinking it's okay to leave people with expensive, unused icons on their desktop due to abandoned and buggy releases.

What you have wasting space on your desktop is of no concern to me, I only have things I use on mine, among them is the Excellent GTR2, with over 100 tracks, GTL again Excellent and P&G3, the 'newer racing titles don't really appeal to me as I'm simply not a fan of generic 'jellymold' GT3 cars.
So, I'm happy

MadDriver11 · Dec 5, 2022

the_last_name_left said:
I mean, for instance, rubbish cameras absent even mouse-look. How can anyone do anything exciting with a single exterior "TV" camera? And that has still (!) not developed one iota even in AMS2. What use can anyone make of that for content? One non-adjustable camera!!!!! And nobody can do anything to change any of it.

Actually there are a bunch of cinematic cameras which you would know of if you actually were following AMS2, btw... All you need is the numeric pad on the side of your keyboard

Like most of the negative statements on ME they happen to come from people who stopped caring back at PC2 times.

Same goes for customization of sessions: there is now a whole lot of customization possible (not everything works flawlessly admittedly but still there are lots of things that are in no other sim) from weather to race formats and rules. More are also due to come, but it's not like other highly considered sim have all those "options" available.
The truth is if it is ACC lacking FCY/SC it's acceptable if it's AMS2 having flaws in the same feature it's unacceptable. If rain is absent or s....t in iracing or RF2 it's a minor flaw, but in AMS2/PC2 if anything isn't perfect with it, it is labeled as unrecoverable s...t.
If AMS2 has limits in the use of hybrid PUs it's garbage, but if RF2 does not actually have any real hybrid subroutine other than a torque multiplier it's ok, it's the greatest simulator ever nonetheless, just because.
In the end all of these arguments are purely a justification for a judgement that is already made and just needs something to hook up to IMHO, which is what makes most of the posts "sim xyz is better than sim abc" here at RD (but not only) the most toxic.
It seems all the hate for Ian Bell and his (mis)management of ME and PC/PC2 is reflecting on the only positive heritage he left, the potential of the ME itself which is pretty masochistic from the simracing community IMHO.

Yogi99 · Dec 5, 2022

'Ian Bell | Straight4Games and Hyper-Realistic Screenshots' are words. Other words: 'Repeated buzz marketing before any product is revealed' and also 'May be real, mat get bored or change mind and start something else.'

IceColdBeard_24 · Dec 5, 2022

Ian Bell said:
I assure you it's Unreal 5 with some of our plugin code running full raytracing.

th3orist · Dec 6, 2022

Pete Conway said:
I think that some posters here have a head issue!
What's it to you if you don't like the game/sim the studio produces... just don't buy it.
There's a million 'Rougelike' and FPS games everywhere, I don't care about them because I don't want them, but I don't go onto websites and cry every time I hear a developer's name or see their posts.

you are not doing it because you are not a fan of that genre, so it makes sense to not do it.
but if you are a fan of a specific genre like simracing, then of course you will follow news about it.
i don't get what you are even upset about, the base for your argument does not apply here.
it would only make sense if people commenting here would dislike simracing. which is not the case.

Trava · Dec 6, 2022

Nice pics of a render model subdivided to the moon and back for the showcase.

Pete Conway · Dec 6, 2022

th3orist said:
you are not doing it because you are not a fan of that genre, so it makes sense to not do it.
but if you are a fan of a specific genre like simracing, then of course you will follow news about it.
i don't get what you are even upset about, the base for your argument does not apply here.
it would only make sense if people commenting here would dislike simracing. which is not the case.

Posters attacking the developer of a game they've not played (because it hasn't been released yet) for a 'legacy' reason is pathetic.
Very few fans of the genre have issues with Bell's work, they're the more sensible ones that... if it doesn't appeal to them, they keep walking.

I've tried PCars and didn't really get into it, I bought PC3, Nah, not my cup of tea, so, I'm here with two 15 year old* titles, and I'm still happy with them, they have bought many thousands of hours of pleasure to me

* GTLegends, GTR2

th3orist · Dec 6, 2022

Pete Conway said:
Posters attacking the developer of a game they've not played (because it hasn't been released yet) for a 'legacy' reason is pathetic.

it's not, it's normal if said developer guy has a history of certain antics in forums and social media and a bunch of empty promises about other products. and i am sure Ian Bell can take it as he also is capable of dishing out.
he does not need you as advocate.

Pete Conway · Dec 6, 2022

th3orist said:
it's not, it's normal if said developer guy has a history of certain antics in forums and social media and a bunch of empty promises about other products. and i am sure Ian Bell can take it as he also is capable of dishing out.
he does not need you as advocate.

I'm not his advocate, I'm an interested sim race fan that doesn't appreciate that a handful of selfish protesters are attempting to f*ck up what could be a very worthwhile sim for everyone else.
If they were as knowledgeable and worthy as they pretend to be they would be working in that industry and not here whinging

Ian Bell | Straight4Games and Hyper-Realistic Screenshots

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