2021 Formula One Saudi Arabian Grand Prix

Amereto1 said:

I probably could have gone into more detail but my point was Fangio joined teams that had the fastest car something not uncommon back then, There was no constructors championship just the drivers.
Fangio won races in the Maserati, When Mercedes launched their car and it was faster than anything else on the grid, do you think Fangio still would have left if the Mercedes was a dog of a car?

At no point did I mention "undue influence", If a driver says to the team I need to finish the race and they give him the car of someone running in a points position like what happened many times over that period be it lead driver or not surly that translates to using influence and denying a driver points. How else would they finish the race?

Maybe I was being a bit speculative in my terminology and also didn't look up any dates, It was 1956, but Peter Collins was in a position to be champion because Fangio's car had broken down and he dropped out, if Collins won the race he would have 30 pts, 3 wins & 2-2nd, Fangio would have 30 pts & 3 wins 1-2nd 1-4th, he didn't need to get the fastest lap, and only 5 rounds counted.

Stirling Moss was leading so he would have had to pass him some how, and yes given the reliability of cars from that generation Collins had every chance of being the first ever British champion, he was the only driver who could stop Fangio winning the championship and Fangio dropped out of the race!!!

They wanted Musso to give over his car so Fangio could try and finish the race to secure the championship, ahead of who? Collins!! But he said no, so what happened, by handing his car over he ended up finishing 3rd in the championship.

Now I've heard the stories of the "Gesture" and they may very well be true because he was very close to Enzo Ferrari, but I just can't possibly imagine a driver on the verge of possibly being F1 champion, and the first of his country, something every driver from karts to F1 has had as their number one goal would just give over their car in that situation, not just give it over, but give it to the guy who will win the championship instead of you.
Not one driver past or present. Infact I can't think of a single person who would voluntarily do that, Not even Bottas. This happened during a pitstop so there was no discussion prior, he pulled up got told Fangio's cars damaged and just said don't worry mate take mine I don't mind. And Fangio standing right there had absolutely nothing to do with that decision! OK!

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sonicviz said:

You make the mistake of assuming because I criticise you I must be a LH fan, but that's incorrect.

I couldn't give a toss who wins, as long as it's clean & the racing is good.

I criticise you (and others, you know who you are) because an objective analysis of your posts shows the most ridiculous bias of the facts due to your massive maxcrush. You've taken hero worship fanaticism to a level even the most dedicated LH fanbois hasn't gone to. Well done!

People have always had driver/team preferences, but the fanaticism and bias of "fans" like yourself is a big part of the problems with the sport now (along with a host of other issues that have resulted in the current shitshow football on wheels design)

The latest case is the MV Brake Test. Red Bull has even had to admit it was due to MV, yet you (and others) still go on with the most ridiculous reasoning to ascribe blame to LH over it.
ref:

Marko apologises for comments on Hamilton/Verstappen clash | RacingNews365

Helmut Marko was critical of the stewards' treatment of Max Verstappen following the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, but has since admitted that one of his remarks was not correct.

racingnews365.com

Helmut Marko apologises, accepts Max Verstappen did brake on Lewis Hamilton

Helmut Marko has apologised and admitted his claim that Max Verstappen didn't brake hard in front of Lewis Hamilton in Saudi Arabia was wrong.

www.planetf1.com

It's a fast moving sport, decisions have to be made quickly, accidents can happen in a flash, mistakes as well, but the data doesn't lie - especially when supporting media rounds out the story. And sometimes the driver is just an asshole. Yes, even LH can be one too at times!

As I said, I don't care who wins as long as it's clean & the racing is good.

Unfortunately for F1, that horse bolted long ago.

Enjoy your football on wheels.

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muzikant said:

You are absolutely right after Silverstone everything has become less clean how is that possible?

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Mr. Malarkey said:

Very very true. So, really, this is what we're stuck with.

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sonicviz said:

There's a huge difference between a genuine racing incident and a deliberate attack to neutralise someone. F1 (and others) have a history of both. Politics also does come into play sometimes, but making the accusation that it's a season long conspiracy is ridiculous. See Occam's and Hanlon's razor if you need to understand why.

I've personally lost a World Championship once (FAI, not FIA) due to perceived political backroom horse-trading that affected the outcome of a competition, but it's extremely difficult to prove even when it's done in plain sight. Sometimes, again, it's also just Occam's and Hanlon's razor.

The FIA is correct, incidents need to be judged within the context of the event that happened. Ascribing motivation due to a wider consequence is another issue entirely. Part of that is taking into account a driver's whole racing record, to determine if they have a pattern of dirty driving, or just a hard competitor but a generally good record. But a driver's history doesn't lie, patterns reveal themselves over time. Accidents happen even to the best of the best, they're driving very fast cars in a variety of conditions and nothing is guaranteed.

**** happens, deal with it.

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Richard Wilks said:

Sure. So basically you are saying that "reputations" should weight on some drivers having harsher penalties, and that the wider implications don't matter.

So if Max does "miss" his braking point and smashes against Lewis sunday, and proclaims he didnt do it on purppose, that Lewis "turned on him", etc etc. what should the FIA do, in light of what happened at both Silverstone and Hungary? Which were a punny 10 second penalty, and a grid penalty for the next race? They should now become all heavy handed and strip him from the championship? And how exactly will they prove his intent? I mean, Lewis only got 10 seconds, and Bottas a grid penalty, why would now Max get anything more? Because of his "reputation"? There is a license points system in place, and guess what, he has plenty there still, so now what?...

I'll tell what, nothing. The FIA dug this hole. They can't strip him of the championship without proving beyond any doubt that he did it on purppose. And unless he is totally taken by surprise like MS was when JV overtook him on that corner, he won't make it look obvious. And since consequences don't matter, Max will very much enjoy his light penalty. Unless you are saying that just because this is the last race of the season, now suddenly consequences DO matter, which is even worse!

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Copef1 said:

27 pages so far. I guess I am going to need the big bag of popcorn, and a whole case of beer to get through next weekends F1 thread.

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Damage Inc said:

If it's a clean race (watch out for flying pigs!) and max wins Spa will be a bone of contention, if Lewis wins Silverstone will be a bone of contention. If it's a race with incidents between Lewis and Max......fallout shelter will be required!!!

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Kostakop_ said:

The next article for Abu Dhabi after qualifying the comments should just be turned off, people are going to loose their shite

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sonicviz said:

>>Sure. So basically you are saying that "reputations" should weight on some drivers having harsher penalties, and that the wider implications don't matter.

No, that's not what I said basically at all.

I'm not interested in playing F1 FIA rule and penalty football, with endless debate over done decisions and endless "whataboutism". Good for you if you want to!

It's a car race, get over it already. History will tell the tale in the end.

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BrainsBush said:

@muzikant : are you the one on the left or right? . Gekkenhuis!

Hopefully we have something to celebrate Sunday evening!!!

To all: enjoy the season finale (pronounce like an Italian as Ferrari will tune the engine to max for the last race). Battle time 200%

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Media is making overtime and (trying to) score. This is a joke right?:

A request to Verstappen before his F1 title showdown with Hamilton

OPINION: Max Verstappen faces a tense title showdown with Lewis Hamilton this weekend, the culmination of a chaotic, crash-filled season. Autosport Chief Editor KEVIN TURNER urges the Red Bull challenger to keep things clean in Abu Dhabi, regardless of the outcome

www.autosport.com

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Richard Wilks said:

Poinds deduction! Because the championship is at stake! So what happened to the "consequences have no bearing in the decisions of the stewards"?

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muzikant said:

Hmm Kevin Turner another british press.. the bad boy Verstappen train

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Richard Wilks said:

Nice to see you changed your tune.

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