Automobilista 2 Version 1.3 Goes Live

pumpkineater23 said:

Here's my two cents:
- AMS2 is now the best VR sim experience. I can bump up most the graphics settings and it looks fantastic. Clear with great framerates and silky smooth. It's awesome in VR, even better than the mighty AC.
- I have to say, the FFB feels amazing to me, better than AC (I may well be wrong here, I'm no expert).
- The physics are definitely better than before. In my (again, not an expert) opinion the 'slip' doesn't feel as detailed as AC, it's more forgiving. I find AMS2 easier (I always have TC off). I don't know if this is less (or more?) realistic. AC 'slip' physics feels more advanced.
I don't think the sounds of AMS2 are great. ACC is the best here (but ACC is terrible in VR).
I had so much fun on AMS2 last night, I was surprised at how great it all feels now.

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Same here.

I think about those things I would say do not fall for the trap of having to be an 'expert'. You do not need to be an expert. You will never translate so much on most wheels the feeling of a 1 ton car driving round a race track, 4 wheels and brakes and an engine, all compressed into one wheel thats a mere 1 foot wide max. Its serviceable enough they will keep working on it - note raceroom and ACC and even AC are all on their 4th or 5th iteration of ffb

Nor is AMS2 the be all end all. I wish they would put actually exhaust burble sounds into the game that would be cool.

Do not fall for the ignominious trap of living your car life through your computer. You dont have to justify it, its does it do what you need to do. No one plays MS flight sim thinking theyre qualified to fly!

edit: all the experts are doing, mate if we can call them that, are trying to form a brand name around a product and link it to it to be the number one association when you think about sim racing. Its not to say they do not have a clue but no one has a moratorium on that stuff, its not done for the 1:1 reasons that directly translate, its done to make you have a positive opinion about a particular product while obfuscating the underlying reasons; and usually its marketing and advertising done to 1 obscure shortcomings, or 2 make you aware of all the positive things leading back to point 1. If you enjoy doing it, go for it. AC has its own long list of problems, does feel more detailed, but again on a scale it doesnt matter how detailed it feels, if it walks like a duck talks like a duck a quacks like a duck then its probably going to be good enough to enjoy for a few hours. AMS2 definitely moves like a car and largely feels like a car, looks great in VR, but its still incomplete.

Enjoying one does not have to be at the expense of another.

Forget that probably well intentioned guy to begin with but forget that talk about ffb being good/bad, its good, and I think a lot of issues come down to honestly see for yourself the traction control and you will note how the new US carts do not have traction control as it is, and you note the difference. From that baseline they will probably improve the title - for all we know their computers for testing have T/C switched totally off (so 0 and off in t/c selection toggle), but you can of course set it to medium 4, or high 2, or anything low 5, and you will find something you like even T/C off. You can do it on the fly during a race.

reshaderacer said:

Ur a lost boy mate... ur prob younger meaning yourre more narcisistic especially on the internet like the world revolves around you, it doesnt

Take it to the devs. BECAUSE you define urself and your enjoyment through that really LIMITED prism, u have so much to learn, and I think we are done here.

dude, ur typing at a keyboard too to someone - me - who doesnt think very much of you.

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That escalated quickly

pumpkineater23 said:

The physics are definitely better than before. In my (again, not an expert) opinion the 'slip' doesn't feel as detailed as AC, it's more forgiving. I find AMS2 easier (I always have TC off). I don't know if this is less (or more?) realistic. AC 'slip' physics feels more advanced.

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By default AC has combined slipcurves for lat/long, which is not great. The lateral curve is relatively too unforgiving compared to longitudinal by default. It's not realistic. Cphys can change that, though, but this is how it is in vanilla.

Comparatively to me it feels like AMS2 might almost do the same thing but the opposite; lateral is more correct but if I had to guess I'd say that the longitudinal side is off. There should not be a big difference steering a bit over the peak or at it in terms of latforce, so it can feel 'easier' but also more vague. It's a problem if it works like that for longitudinal slip too, though. The peak is somewhat more pronounced and the slope is higher after peak IRL compared to the lateral curve.

I'm not sure what AMS2 does for combined inputs but there should be a grip-gain when combining inputs. If there isn't one present (Like in AC's KS content) then you can very easily modulate the car's attitude from throttle, which is not quite correct. There is quite a bit of leniency allowing to step on the throttle and not cause reduced lateral force. I would imagine AMS2 includes this in their content, and if they don't, they should.

To me it feels like either the optimal SR is very high, or the curve is too similar to the lateral one and there is no real downside from slipping the tires. There should be grip loss from heat, but it doesn't seem to work closely to reality in AMS2 because I at least couldn't determine any noticeable balance changes from heat, even in Suz- Kansai's long, fast corners.

I am not surprised if they are limiting the effects of these things (because they can go out of hand completely in a model like this) while still claiming they have accurate heating effects and so on simulated. The brakeheat in the cars I've looked at is completely off compared to any steel brake system I've ever looked at and seems to do squat, so I'm not surprised if it's similar for tires.

It's not a criticism per-se because I've also gradually worked in more correct effects into my cars little by little because thermals can get out of hand and become super volatile and catastrophic quickly if you are putting in wrong parameters; but it's just my impression.

Austin Ogonoski said:

It's fantastic!

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That depends on your PC capability to handle full pit crews for all participants. If yours can't it's enough to go in the options and choose display full crew for yourself only so that when someone enters the pit you do not get the additional load..

The BMW gt3 is lousy with traction control off and tbh is a bit bloated as a model just now. BUT the gt3 porsche is going really good. Both at Kyalami and Brands Hatch. edit really frees up the car to hold proper lines at least and a proper sense of weight.

You do not just turn down T/C, you also turn it off.

Havner said:

That escalated quickly

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haha it took a couple of days and several messages but I have to hand it to the guy, though he was obviously trying to fire me up he does make solid arguments and indeed it did make sense but at a certain point people do want to enjoy the titles. edit as in cant throw the baby out with the bathwater, its no good holding off the enjoyment of a title to wait for the ffb. I didn't like the title overly much from maybe version 1.1 to 1.29 but at the same time it didn't stop me from enjoying what I felt I could. It shouldn't stop him either.

For example, if not for Assetto Corsa we would not have a decent base game Ferrari 458 gt2 which I like, and theres the 488, and the FFB has only gotten better on those over time. They are surely top 10 cars if such a list could squeeze in a top 10 and be satisfactory. Its the same with AMS2, the ffb has never been as good.

The dfifeence in the 458 gt2 with the old gyro and new gyro is night and day. You can literally feel the mid engine in that one, then. The guy has a point, but those problems are becoming solved over time. No one is a NASA engineer at the company's but they are not without a clue. Its more than simple engineering to take care of. Or the right formulae. I can't explain it, but like I said.

His major fault was that he probably discarded my own views one too many times, while not really contributing to an argument. I have driven these, I have read the literature, honestly there is not much to it. Its a known quantity, I think one has to really look more at computing power back then to now, legacy systems and the modding aspect. Some of those things would never be solved unless modding brought about the need, it functioned as a product back in 2016.

Every time you open up the codebase a headache will probably ensue. Its like covering old ground unless a pertinent need comes up. Its not because they didn't want to make the ultimate ffb

The dampener in thrustmaster control panel really needs to be turned off I have found, the in game dampener (even if its 15) works far better and as intended with the default and + ffb profiles.

Another reason why I did not keep the conversation being going, theres so many discrepancies as is. but i am finding 65, 30, 40, 17 dampener has been going the best yet despite being a little heavier, sometimes that is needed to harden up the steering at a turn.

and note how ffb tastes change as time goes on. And something like gt1 Porsche with 0 dampener in control panel then needs 126% (81 versus 65) in game-per car multiplier and then its brilliant. Vibration comes back and details, and turning is sharp and crisp.

In fact I have driven the Kunos 2016 porsche in AC and AMS2 back to front and there is barely any difference except the ffb is naturally firmer in AC, once you adjust camber up a fraction to 2 in AC its just as free flowing. (note there are about 3 or 4 other Porsches similar, and then rsr ones in AC, I am saying same model to same model, not a no name or whimsical one or dif type

(and you know in AC camber lol does about 100 things all at once, but I check it against camber extravaganza and the tires turn green for grip at watkins glen when you need it most, mid turn high speed on a bend; thats how it comes out the gate in AMS2 now. As if it were that, but I have not messed round with the AMS2 one, AC is 2016 porsche camber is front 2 and toe .5 iirc so toe is .010 each side basically in the side panel in setup, nothing to rear i remember)

not trying to make it a competition, ac does look great at sunrise with sol and it drives as it should and brakes and feels like a car, AMS2 is a little off that but it is definitely materializing with the solid base there. Its not as far off as many would have you believe. AC is hampered by numerous issues such as not being actively developed and bugs which will never be resolved.

As our friend highlighted the ffb is a notable difference but with my settings I have made it closer, heavier but free-moving still. There is still time and no one is chained to a single title. Even when/if ams2 blitzes past it there will be nothing stopping anyone from jumping into ac again any time they please. Its not mutually exclusive.

*beyond ilja who gets about 10-20k a month for the trouble, injecting the code, that is a unique situation, for his skills and is an addition

Kyuubeey said:

Both views are fine, it's probably your money that you bought the product with anyway, but it's a bit silly when so many people claim to be "simulation" racers yet they vehemently fight against realism oriented viewpoints.

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Small addition here. You said elsewhere that people would be disappointed if they received a realistic FFB cause they wouldn't feel anything (it might have been in relation to power steering, but still). True. But I wouldn't necessarily combine strive for realism with the need for realistic FFB.

I for instance am completely for making cars, car simulation, tire heat simulation, etc as realistic as possible. But not FFB. We're at disadvantage as sim racers having no G-forces and SOP. So while I want the car to behave realistically to my inputs I want FFB to be 1. pleasure to drive and 2. fill in the gaps for things I don't have seating in my rig in my room and not being on track. So i can drive properly reacting to things happening with the car.

Our esteemed realism ffb person may be interested to know regarding the above situation, when I set the gt3 porsche at watkins glen to 126% of my normal thing it feels remarkably similar to what most regard as the best ffb AC+CPS+content manager settings. If i turn down fx to 35 its better than 40 by that stage, however I am limited by equipment now, and a direct drive would be the only way to go to better it, which brings its own config puzzles.

Its not as real as he may have liked but it definitely is representative. Just got to be willing to search for the hardness of the ffb and make settings to work across a variety of cars.

edit so there may well be a better option some day but for now just getting the differences between cars across is a major win in sim racing. You will never get around the fact that you are driving no where hehe, its not even going down to the shops, its still-motion and 4 wheels into a steering wheel, it can only ever be indicative and work in tandem with the visuals on the monitor or VR.

edit second point... next time you ride your bike or car, focus on the AC hard left or hard right aspect - its very smooth in AC, in real life you turn that hard its not as smooth. AC is good at conveying the forces and their build up to the limit which is pretty important to work out where to turn, AMS2 is assuming there is chopping and scuffing going on, its just a different way to convey the signal, may be its a little more fuzzy but I guess it is also more informative of the surface, and as long as you keep in mind its indicative you are more ok with it. It is not as strong but its something.

More needs to be done to ffb and physics I guess its an on going process; like in science we will never arrive at a point where 'we are done' or we arrived and can turn off science or improvement, you know thats not life. we just keep going

Havner said:

Small addition here. You said elsewhere that people would be disappointed if they received a realistic FFB cause they wouldn't feel anything (it might have been in relation to power steering, but still). True. But I wouldn't necessarily combine strive for realism with the need for realistic FFB.

I for instance am completely for making cars, car simulation, tire heat simulation, etc as realistic as possible. But not FFB. We're at disadvantage as sim racers having no G-forces and SOP. So while I want the car to behave realistically to my inputs I want FFB to be 1. pleasure to drive and 2. fill in the gaps for things I don't have seating in my rig in my room and not being on track. So i can drive properly reacting to things happening with the car.

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Well, I shall entertain the idea that perhaps kinesthetics are not a gap that must be filled and are actually generally detrimental to information gathering when driving. Exceptions perhaps for bumps and braking/accelerating at low Gs.

so many philosophs here, sharing their theories
Go on track and drive, dudes !

DC WOLF said:

so many philosophs here, sharing their theories
Go on track and drive, dudes !

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You could see it different yourself. There's a few types of people, and you may be an eternal optimist yourself, but those would be part of a large make up of the crowd of ams2 - eternal optimists. Others may well be (look at maslovs law/or pyramid of needs) they well be mathematical-orientated, or analytical, they may be pure racers like they have an ego and live fast. Whatever it is I think you will find the core audience is made up of largely eternal optimists and thus you do not see much dissenting nowadays.

well you could be right there. but you are not. You misread the room, some people are happy including me, but others are not. They DO NOT want a repeat at patch 1.5 for example. lol their theories? Thats their frustration you self centered. Look at audi r8 LMS in AC the kunos model, a lot of their early models are good, its consistent and the gt3 porsche i was talking about was one such too. Mostly do mods but I make sure to drive those - the ffb at a place like monza or Automn ring (mod gran turismo) the car doesn't mind, it handles there on the mod track and at Kunos tracks. Some guys I can tell are just mythed about things, when the reality it patch 1.3 is probably the start of said greater consistency.

If the guys/anyone's ffb is not working fully just find a setting for one car then for example the v12 (singular car) set it to 110% or so. And they should map it to plus and minus on the number pad so they can change it on the fly during the lap until its set up right for each car.

But thats not what you are doing is it. You are really trying to re-frame their concerns and otherwise and pass it off as "please be oblivious to the grime and dirt"... nah man. Personally I may sim race once or twice a month so I want it to count.

If you made this game your life or something it could not be more than a stepping stone or something of an agenda, if you think of the new workers, their wives and whatnot would be saying as such, people who are not invested in it and who can think critically about it, are just consumers. These people's partners know the title is not up to much and they advise accordingly - as soon as you can get out of dodge, do so at the worst or make sure to advance etc etc, as a consumer only those guys you talk about can only 'observe' the end result once a month. No one wants AMS2 to remain static and null. Thats why they make their theories or even try to improve it. Reiza would have already made a fair chunk of change on the title and expansion packs, gained new equipment and/or new systems of development at larger scales - they would be fairly happy.

Its not up to you to determine when they have to stop thinking critically about something. In fact I do mention a car at the end for the case, but the guy was right about the ffb, and in fact I will add to it: out of the 1000 combinations of car/track probably only 100-200 MAX are up to snuff. The title is a work in progress. It can't escape 'theories'...most pass it over, you should encourage it if anything.

It could mean censorship - I see - really? You should allow the guys to have their theories and all the rest no matter the good or bad and do not look sideways at them for talking 'out of hand' at your precious game.... the product, which it IS a product, not a sim, in truth, a product - was sold with glaring inconsistencies and bugs, in the differential of ALL things! (yes resolved finally) lol.... for 2 years... and now you want to quell the theories. Yeah so what so were other titles sold as such but never to this level. Maybe cyberpunk but that was a sham.

No thanks, and I think you will find on balance that they are playing other things and if its a sim they are more likely to be playing AC, ACC, RF2, dirt rally.

You must let them speak, and do as they please, but in the spirit of health and safety and goodness of the world around us, I will speak as to that:

So I hope others are doing such. I have been doing it all, driving the car, seeing movies in the city in gold class and walking and shopping round the city, watching youtube, posting on here, even got on the bike for a bit, though its raining a fair bit last month, I will sim and post on these forums. watching youtube. never doing one thing.

I would suggest instead of telling people what to do lol even though its funny, to make sure you are also doing yourself

I came back actually since as someone with a life, I also hope others live a high quality life and earn a solid income, and also with ffb I have come to see I want people to have a solid experience there too, my former ffb was ok,

but the new ffb I use is default only 66, 15, 25, 17 bolded for the simple fact less is probably more.
_
But I also think the ffb needs to be given a serious attention to in the public domain from the developer. For example low force boost seems to do not a lot of anything anymore for a lot of cars. Gain has become the most needed value.

I have always gotten laid by good looking girls, always enjoyed boats, cars, motorbikes, I am doing ok and if I see a bas philosophy I swear I will ride that person, now I am riding you, catch up bro

no one should just 'sim' make sure you do at least 2 things at once, eg sim and watch youtube/music./movie, or sim and post on here, etc.

Its a very imperfect sim hence why the man was giving you/us/all philosophy.

is that steelreserrve/cast? lol going to need double effort in the next patch. its been good but more cars now

I think Rfactor2 still has a lot of legs and AMS2 is definitely in the mix, the ffb will have to come along but its good overall, and rf2 has tracks like sachensring and road atlanta ala AC, so still a ways to go in order to simply push other games of sim racing out (not that a track should preclude from considering ams2). But as of today with the ffb done right values, ams2 is definitely in the mix with those other 2, even if the majority of people would suggest its going to difficult to play ams2 over those other 2, fair enough, but AMS2 has come along in leaps and bounds.

remember, I could also change the ffb back by the time this is read haha.

I do understand the guy, as in Rfactor2 there is only one thing to worry about - per car ffb strength and in fact its designed to clip on most wheels iirc, I use some favourite cars on that title. The ffb and car physics and tires in rf2 are solid as a rock mostly, very nice. Its my strong belief that reiza intend default+ to become to go-to ffb for AMS2. in such a way, as it is very similar. Sauber merc at watkins glen is a solid showing of that, but as yet incomplete (meaning 1.3 will looking nothing like 2.3).

You do understand now though that until 2.3 they will have 'theories'? They are NOT playing it, we are all doing multiple things including simming and non simming. Start thinking dynamically, and if you do not live in a free society consider becoming a refugee.

im no eternal optimist, but i don't see the need to write eternal pages of subjectiv theories and boring essays about what other people might think/do/feel/whatever.

DC WOLF said:

im no eternal optimist, but i don't see the need to write eternal pages of subjectiv theories and boring essays about what other people might think/do/feel/whatever.

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The weird thing here is why basic physics is considered a subjective theory.

just because the subjective foreword is so long, most readers never reach the essence/point of the post. Klick, next.
Sometimes i think, people writing girlies diaries with much stickers, flowers, and tiny little pets around that one important word, they want to express

The skill of this guy to write an essey out of a simple sentence is amazing. Let's see how he'll do this time.

Havner said:

The skill of this guy to write an essey out of a simple sentence is amazing. Let's see how he'll do this time.

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nah, its may be you don't understand. Start writting things which are more understandable. Words are just words but if I feel I have to convey a lot may be its you. I do write a lot on this topic but it is more business orientated since I find so many deluded.

DC WOLF said:

just because the subjective foreword is so long, most readers never reach the essence/point of the post. Klick, next.
Sometimes i think, people writing girlies diaries with much stickers, flowers, and tiny little pets around that one important word, they want to express

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You're just someone who thinks he is clever. You've definitely got bigger problems in your life than myself. I think I can understand what you are internalizing through all this. You might be 400 pounds and live with mum - I don't know. You may come online to push people around; your medium is simply computer games, like a little kid. You mention girls n stuff - is that your own gender dimorphism? I'm free dude and no one tells me what to do. nah man, you think you're the expert or something and your pic proves it. Making up for a lot.

Its really simple, if someone or a company has the product - they get the people, they get the money. People without a mind or intelligence overly much usually don't 1 read - no loss and 2 unable to write well, so why would you have anything worth saying?

Where's the people? Where's the money? You don't see it. They slip away. I am willing to stick my neck out but when it comes to people like you, you are found wanting. Do not put this back on me.

You said "GO PLAY IT!" to people - (you wanted to say it like that, but in the spirit of the internet - edit and you're agenda of disdain on such people who were contrary to your compulsive controlling personality maybe, as per a disguise - you didn't write it like that...) We could even have a whole conversation around how 'good' you think it is.

I played it for a couple of days - ignore the shills, the people paid by fanatec to say nice things the people encouraged by ams2 to say nice things - its not that good. Its better, but its not 'that good'.

No one is really playing it so why, why oh why are you telling people to play it? Including me. Buzz off. Those guys were expressing themselves and you may want to intimidate them.

Again, if its a good product LMFAO - you won't need to tell me or them to play. You could ask why aren't you playing it? Isn't it this gripping thing pushing out the top 50 games? WOW, black desert all those silly intense 'grindy' games - AMS2 beats them? Those are not my cup of tea but they get 10k-50k etc.

Don't tell people what to do - and next time you want open discourse at least be open yourself.

What those guys were trying to say and now myself, is when it becomes good, they will play it. Don't laugh at them, because if you are playing it and you have a cat with sunnies on, lol people are laughing at you more than likely. This isn't cuba and you are no dictator. And I feel as though you may have chosen a dog with sunnies, because not only is that your namesake but also you are the company lapdog it looks like.

If you are the company lapdog as your actions and certainly intentions seem to indicate, then you may want to note a proper game/sim people 'go f-ing play' a lot - Assetto Corsa.

Its player stats were 1500, it never went down - ever - per month in terms of total players logging on to play, it got to 11k concurrent, from 1,500 concurent. You're telling people to go play the wrong sim- there's no dissertations on that title lol, only on AMS2. Get clever please.

If you want to use the internet to express an idea - stuff your cat with sunnies mate... get the actual idea and convey that. And if you are in any way employed by the company or associated you need to be fired. When I tell people what to do, as nicely as possible, its worth doing. Clearly.

oh man so many wierd theories in one endless essay again.
so much what could, would, maybees and obscore infringements.

no, i have no problems
no, i'm not fat
no, i don't live with my mum
no, i'm much to old for living for computer games
no, i'm no kid ( see above )
no, i'm not gender dismorphed
No, i never said "play it". I wrote "go on track and drive".
Yes, i'm not from Cuba and i swaer have really no relationship to any dictator
No, i don't stuff any pet with anything
no, i'm not employed at Reiza, Kunos or any compeditor
Oh last sentence was really good, because you really think you are cleverer than them and they should do what you suggest. Wow. BTW, Are you related to someone from Cuba ?
Why don't you start a company. We all wait for ReshadeRacing 2023.
With best FFB, best cars, best tracks and best marketing.
Boy you're so crank

DC WOLF said:

no, i have no problems
no, i'm not fat

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You'll get an essey in a second on why denying it is actually a confirmation :-D

Havner said:

You'll get an essey in a second on why denying it is actually a confirmation :-D

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U must want my 1.3 advice then. Forget me. Ask why only 1-3.5% of 16,000 (unique!=? 50k?) play AMS2 daily. Some sports are spectacular and some are technical, yes some have bats and balls and others just a ball. Look at soccer versus the rugby union and the rugby league. The former technical and the later spectacular. It makes up for things. But I think people want the technical game but the engine is designed or was, for spectacular.

It may be a Valheim v Ark situation. Double count for ARK, valheim fell short despite media manipulation. What I am interested in now is lessening the floaty or slippery tires by harder or tighter ffb when breaking. Ala rf2, which was not floaty to begin with, but I think AMS2 is some months off. Anecdotally. Some potential there. Potential is different to 'doing' though. Science further down. AC via peoples own directives as i will show, raceroom, RF2 didn't stand still, ACC, they moved to become more competent and full products since 3 years ago when this title was in pre production.

__

ok guys but please remember that until 4 months ago it was difficult to save slides in AMS2. Not that I am bad hehe, firstly - I am no prima donna I grew up playing Test Drive 2 steering with a mouse!

Might I suggest the historical map pack for Rfactor2 has some brazil tracks, and others in it on steam. You will note the AMS2 tracks are technically better, but its much the same thing when a track is just good. One thing I am intent on seeing in AMS2 is the hard breaking ffb tighten up/heaviness such as in RF2, this is definitely a thing but also one which will add to the ffb if they have not already earmarked it.


Well I do not want to make out like I am trying to pick on people, but just think about it simplyPeople would play AMS2 more IF for example they didn't see the value in the 100s of KUNOS made cars in AC... go drive some of those original and DLC Kunos cars in AC with CSP, and you won't have time to drive in AMS2.

AC mods gone to make room for good AC mods:


- eg a legion 1965 lola mod car looked terrible graphically against the 1967 kunos alfa romeo stradale - do the former got deleted

- few people are interested in front wheel drive racing, and manufacturers tip in the money for exposure but the truth is its lame (except rf2 renault megane usually), so most front wheels went unless it was a sporty passenger (very few left) or cool in some way, but even then it was not enough usually.

- need for speed diablo mod? A pig! Gone! Yet is was so highly praised when it came out under old versions

- the kunos lambo aventidore or something, a dog to drive at sonoma so deleted. It may be a great car to own naturally lol its a lambo but to drive like this no

- one example was why was I keeping the NSX mod and its 5 cars!? when I really mostly drive the mx5 mazda from the 90s....so a lot of those dump boxy 90s cars went. And why did I need 15 Porsche 911 mods and cars of basically the same type. Normally the answer in AC is to keep the Kunos ones, so beno-bro's/singer's mods bar 1 each got deleted but maybe all after testing, and others, even one kunos porsche 911, I will never drive it. Thus my list is increased in quality perception. There was nothing wrong with the Kunos 911 RSR 1974 version and its basically a better driver than singer's more base model, so I got rid of it, kept maybe 1 modded one. As it is do a 911 search and 20 cars pop up! But why would I drive that 1960-1979 version car anywhere else in another game? The small exception may well be AMS2 in some more time.

So I mean properly - delete any/all the worst mods from your list, the other month on the back of updated AMS2 and ACC, Rfactor2 cars, I deleted basically 75GB worth of cars from AC.... [i either never drove them, would never do so, or they were broken or untested-broken which I found out the last few] then take those original cars and quality mods (remember I was brutal to the mods; anything I did not drive or would not was gone) take the remaining ones to your fave track (1) and learn to drive them fully again.

They are great. The quality overall and perceived quality will increase, and your satisfaction with it. As accurate as any in AMS2, if not more so, and AMS2 does at least give a good feel for cars too. But you can say the same for doing so in RF2 - I deleted 50gb of tracks in Rf2 and some cars in that, leaving just the best ones and rf2 turns into something really good along with latest update (again)... this could happen in AMS2 we don't know. I already said the gt3 porsche was getting up there maybe s/cast27 did some work on it. It goes well at certain tracks.

- deleted on purpose 60s era cars except a few Ferrari looking things and the full on sports cars but not old style f1 and boxy cars for example... but a lot of those car left and even kunos original cars which were old and bad to drive no offence to those who like that, if it said drag or drift or if it was hill climb or free roam it went (though may be regretting sukotu but i left union island and targo italiani one its a track actually). As per race room I think a level of consistency is warranted but AMS2 is not fully there just yet.

- the track I tested them on? Sonoma raceway actually, seemed apt given its lack of large straights and various speed turns

- if it could not get zero toe to -.10 toe on front wheel with 18 psi after a couple of laps supposing it was not ridiculous and have a decent camber or contact patch I would get rid of it, or if it handled bad (which does not mean hard or easy to drive), for example the IER simulation high downforce LMP thing - deleted. People reckoned it was one of the best, well not any more. A car I never liked the Jaguar xj220 (mod) I kept; though I know I will rarely drive it. It drove like a dog but you could hassle it round the track.

- rarely did I touch the diff as the track is not for one value there, but once or twice I did, nor the dampers. I was looking for specific things. It not this optimal setup but its close. Once I took a 50 dif to a 40.

So no. Actually yes. Wow you do not realise how predictive and clever you are may be lol - and how predictive science can be. That this computer game is very over-stated and indeed he should not be telling anyone to play it, use their time, money or resources on it - ITS ONLY USEFUL as a discussion piece and potential future business case study. Even with positive market leverage and manipulation it simply cannot rise. It does not have a compelling enough product.

You do realise this was never really meant to be a game, even, do you?

Its making sense to you. They wanted to offload the studio since in the world of investment you can truly follow the money. Codies to E.A. It probably passed under the noses of several upper management people and valuators. Do you realize the company at star citizen was valued at 300 million or more? When the thing was trash. People in this line are meant to take trash to treasure...

BUT IT WAS billed as a 'treasure' -> to trash. And now they have you on the hook.

They, at Reiza, had this game given to them to allow enough time to sort out the game engine issues (which sent them making trudge like Project Cars 3) in order to fix the issues. It was probably done on the proviso the company would be soon sold, and in order to increase the value, as we know this niche industry was seen as some kind of growth opportunity and to hedge bets against the likes of Forza and Gran Turismo on Xbox and Playstation, given how steam is a 3 way marketplace of sorts along with Xbox/PC....

In leiu of something substantial going on in his brain, he kicks out and back. Thats ok, he will learn some day. So truly he needs a philosophy and philosophy is the weakest of sciences. Its barely even a science, theoretical physics is more a science than philosophy. I have something that says it all, and rely's more on his over-commitment to his failed argument than any essay. Its simple.

That he rejects it - speaks volumes.

Ive stopped reading the cat. Its not important and highly agenda driven, I do not want to argue with him, and I am not fighting with him (he can do as he likes he can play the game, and I do now and then too, that is all fine), but it is rather silly. You do understand now, you saw your essay. And your last comment is agenda driven too lol

Its funny and you get it but I do not wish to poke fun at people. I only have a need now to point out some things. You can call it the 'take away'.

Virtual cottage position 653 on steam charts. players 374, Hours played: 243,000

Automobilista 2, position 654 on steam charts, players 383, Hours played: 188,000

But this is where it gets stranger, Lobotomy Corporation, players 382 players, 670,000 hours.

Ouch. So no, I do not want to play it just now haha, but NOR do I want to play virtual cottage simulator if you take my meaning. There will be other patches, I'm sure.

Now, you may think Lobotomy corp lol is seriously bad or flawed, no.... its got nearly 700k hours up; even if that is nothing on the combined 500 million some games have. AMS2 is a flawed game. And before 1.3 it was deeply flawed, but its still flawed. And I think this is reflected in the results, and if we are not with the crowd on this one then we must consider if we are wasting time in some way by playing it. We can only hope it changes but its hovered around that for so long now. Truth be told they at Reiza were handed a dud in some ways. While the argument may become the time those games existed - i.e AMS2 has not had as long to rack up the hours, argument is different. It may come