Automobilista 2 Version 1.3 Goes Live

XhendrickX said:

Most car classes still bunny hop bounce all over the place its not just the GT3. This is a fundamentally broken part of the game (not a sim yet). Only the stock cars and a few open wheel classes are ok the rest is just poor physics and driving model. The graphics still stutter, glitch, track objects flicker, my windscreen has artifacts that pop up and go. Replays blur bad, AI crap as hell. Very frustrating experience. All this happens to content released from Nurburgring dlc onwards. All the wait for a custom championship and its very basic and unstable too many crashes. We asked the dev right here over a year ago, will you go back and fix bad content. But these concerns were ignored. For me its a studio rushing and pushing out quantity over quality. What is more of a let down is the youtubers that cover this game, just watch their content, the graphic issues I mentioned appear on their side as well yet they turn a blind eye like all is well. Not once do they ever address these issues. Not the direction I thought this game would take. Happy for those that enjoy it.

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Thank god for the "block" button.

F2020 said:

Thank god for the "block" button.

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AMS2 community: *blocks anyone who has criticisms*
Also AMS2 community: Anyone criticizing AMS2 is clearly a fanatical shill of another product

Are these signs for the next car brands stepping into AMS2?

F2020 said:

Thank god for the "block" button.

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Are you kidding.

You cant just bock everything and call your world precious. It will be nothing more than a farce of your own making. Sheesh the game only got good TWO DAYS AGO.... give the guy a break. Its his time and money and his thoughts on the matter.

Now is not the time to be proud, dude. Two days, man. He might be tired. I also had the worst time at zuzuka/kansai with the ginetta p1 type, until i lowered power ramp to 56 only change with front camber down to -2.8 or similar lower, forget back for now, 61 front brake..... These sims are notoriously fiddly. Of course its sweet now. but anything can happen in between. This thing feels like a real lump of metal, its good, but the other guy may never drive it as such.

legacy head movement, camera 35, ffb 66 20 27 0. brake deadzone 35 too easy. but not everyone will be on the same page

another rock solid experience is gte porsche at speilberg. its in the game but its not all perfect.

with 2000 combinations or something not everyone will be in the spot. I am going to guess steelcast did the broad main setup on the p1 ginetta or something.

for chevy v8 p1, at kansai didnt change anything

No need to block anyone. Just let everyone put their opinion. Personally I use Legacy camera setting at 30. There is no bouncing and no skipping. I feel that sometimes people just give up very easily, probably because they listen too much to certain extreme criticism so they already start with strong prejudice.

I cannot tell who is worse
-the AMS2 blind haters that will irrationally criticize the game (often without spending any time on it) and double down whenever the game gets better
-the AMS2 blind defenders who dismiss all criticism (and even worse, try to explain how the broken item is actually correct) until the game corrects some of those problems and then act like they knew it was wrong all along

i don’t know why this is the game that gets such polarized treatment

Kyuubeey said:

I have, a properly made model in AC is still far ahead of ACC due to more devtime potential and CSP features, apart from a few minor advantages like chassis flex. Although that'll change in the future. The engines are not so dissimilar, many of the tire things have exact same parameter inputs and so on.

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Still play Assetto Corsa but never play GT3 again, don't like anymore, and GT2 too, i think have too enough grip and so fast, for me ACC is King on GT

williang83 said:

Is this something replay related or driving related?

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Replay

i just drove the metalmorrow turbo fastest one p3 iirc, took 5 off both power ramps and then brakes at 61 at kansai. incredible stuff.

what it really needs though is crowd noise on the straight and the game is getting really good, a few days ago it was naff.

theguy69 said:

Honestly mate i think reiza should work to add more and more classic cars to this sim. I think the engine is perfect for them. I would absolutely love to have something like a wsc 1987 season dlc. It would be epic!

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Well there are on Pcars2, so will like to see "rare" or never seen Cars, like btcc 1985, or Brazilian stock Cars or cups never seen on Europe

theguy69 said:

Honestly mate i think reiza should work to add more and more classic cars to this sim. I think the engine is perfect for them. I would absolutely love to have something like a wsc 1987 season dlc. It would be epic!

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I agree. I'd love to see a 1980's IMSA GTO, GTP DLC pack. There are plenty of games that can provide modern F1 or GT3, but how many of them have a Chevy powered March 83G painted like a lobster?

This update was good step forward IMO, lots of fun to be had in AMS2 but I tend to agree that ACC (understandably) does GT3/4s better.

My main gripe is that I use TrackIR, and loading in steam VR disable the legacy head movement option so the horizon bounces all over the place which makes me nauseous on some track/cars…other than that I’ve no real complaints about the game now.

I think what Reiza have managed to do with this update is fantastic, this sim just got more sim! Obviously the diff and driveline physics updates are the most important here, but theres so much more in this update. Anyway thought id do a little comparison to see how its stacking up against its peers:

miker said:

This update was good step forward IMO, lots of fun to be had in AMS2 but I tend to agree that ACC (understandably) does GT3/4s better.

My main gripe is that I use TrackIR, and loading in steam VR disable the legacy head movement option so the horizon bounces all over the place which makes me nauseous on some track/cars…other than that I’ve no real complaints about the game now.

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Bouncing happens IRL as well even to an extend of getting eye strains on bumpy tracks like Sebring, but it's also a good indicator for a better or worse suspension-setup. Unlike other titles you can not just feel but see the difference of a setup. And the cars that don't have the setup-options are probably some pain in the a.. for real as well when driving over bumpy tracks.

i feel physics and ffb improved or is it just placebo??? no it must not be placebo cause i made 1-2 month pause from game and i came and feel like better everything. but i test formula 3 brasil and it still oversteers instead ov understeers xD if you turn wheel too much at 100 km/h it will oversteer ... but i dont know maybe them cars so grippy and agile so they turn more than they could xD
but another thing i saw people complain abous v8 supercars, i tell you check stock cars its same thing. like i comin out turn have like 15-20 degree turned wheel and go full throttle car would go sideway lol. i must never use full throttle onyl at straight when i know i have perfect centered wheel, maybe max 3 degree turn.. otherwise i must use half throttle every time when my wheel degree is turned more than 10 degreee its kinda funny lol i dont think real race car would go sideway so much i think sometings odd/.
also another thing with stock opala 1976 i was playin online an there was automatic pit exit.
so car was driven out pit as bot and i saw good normal sound but as fast as car leave pits its big slide each time as i would press E-brake sometimes car would go sideway for a spilt second xDDDDD and then its that sound as someting was wiping throu asphalt lol like there was bumper or something touching road and make that sound xDDD funny thing...
also i drive stock opala 1976 on hockenheimring i take every turn at 100 km/h and car goes sideway each turn and it looks to me like car drives 50 km/h but speedo shows 100 km/ so i believe im driving 100 xDDDD but it feels like 50 thoug xDDD such funny thing i remember pCARS2 when yo drive 100 km/h yo feel drivin 100 km/h.. i mean same FOV 60 degrees but strange thing drivin 100 km/ in AMS2 feels like 50 km/h and 100km/h indeed in pCARS2

You are right with the speed, the game indeed feels flat when it comes to acceleration; the game engine cannot seem to do it well like in other titles where u feel the speed increase. We all know in the world relative speed to our bodies feels forceful from standstill, to about 100 kms when the relative effect on the brain wears off and its flatter unless you exponentially increase acceleration. At a certain velocity we stop being sensitive to speed increases relative to vision yes but also mass and momentum...

With setups the secret with the update is dialling in the power and diff ramps, may be one less tick on clutch plates....its the same as in AC with CSP.... first work out how much you want to turn on a dime in a circle, power is on throttle /coast is off throttle, some times coast is enough to lower by itself. then work out how easy you want that ratio to happen, clutch plates, then if you must how soon, preload. may be there are long turns and you want to turn preload up to accommodate.

only gt3 did i on this update shift power a lot down. most setups only move things slightly. its a marked improvement. think the steel reserve guy did some work on the game. The game had a black swan moment....if I knew it would have I would have been even more negative, its only via critique projects improve. A lot of people dont get warm and fuzzy feelings in their home life that is sad. It helps then when it counts.

I even think now having tried them more the gt3 has absolutely nothing on ACC and even AC but the gt3 is also enjoyable if imperfect its still serviceable. Just tighten down the power ramp by 10 in the Porsche, at campo grande its good, but the merc gt3 is very average, but other sedan classes are good ie gt1 and gte on condition of track. i.e gte Porsche at Spielberg or Nürburgring, corvette gte at Virginia, etc.

In general Kylami and kansai just became infinitely better tracks for all cars. the setups can accommodate them more. No longer do you need to limit yourself to the pre school tracks in ams2

pretty sure the company would be aware of what needed fixing though

Since the new update release i've mostly tested the GT cars GT1,GT3,GT4,GTE,Cup etc and the FFB and physic was great, then I decided to try the old content Caterhams, ARC, etc...well cold bath...that was like before in the FFB side or physic side or both (deleted setup files etc BTW)...
My impression about AMS2 for the moment.

Purist will say that most of AMS2 cars are very good to drive but in a perspective of neutral/new player wanting to test the sim, a good portion of the content can pull down the game. We and Reiza may need to start to consider that even updated at maximum, the madness engine is not tailored for some type of cars. Reiza could act accordingly by purging the actual content to warrant a constant good experience. If people could feel the same sensation like with the Gt cars and the open wheels with ALL the cars it would be huge.

Kyuubeey said:

The aero part is more about the front ARB than anything. The spring may affect packer activation if your gap is low. This is assuming an accurate behavior, of course.

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assuming your packers are being activated, which is a finer detail that most users don't notice. ams2 grants more freedom in this regard. plus the aero concerns have to outweigh the mechanical ones. in ams2 the telemetry is apparent.

Kyuubeey said:

AC/ACC have semi-empirical models. They're not fully empirical models (I'm pretty sure even Magic Formula isn't) nor are they necessarily much simpler than the physical models in terms of outputs. SETA barely simulates "more" things, it's mainly a different way to get the parameters, although there are some goodies which would probably be more benefit for off-road driving than on-track, which is a real advantage IMO. Let's stick to asphalt, though.

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Perhaps, but ams2 simulates tire heat transfer and their effect on pressure is dynamic, corner to corner. The most obvious effect is how ACC models rely on optimal pressures and the ease of enabling players to set it. This ease, hurts players who transition to AMS2 as it requires players to understand pressures and optimal contact patch to a finer degree than they are used to, so they ignore it.

Kyuubeey said:

Due to more aspects being defined and interactable in the more physical SETA model, you can have some behaviors easier represented, like a less fixed SAT graph with more variables, because you have the carcass and whatever physically represented that you can start flexing around, not just a representation of the contact patch. I imagine it's good for graphics too; you have some kind of physical output to link the visual flex to for example, and you can have the sidewall and tread flex individually. Not so important for the actual tire forces, though. In a semi-empirical model like the AC/ACC one, you can just solve the end result if you know what you're solving for. Again this is assuming a flat asphalt track and not some kind of very strange tire-hanging-off-ledge-while-being-squished-from-side scenario or something.

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It sounds like cutting corners to me if you are serious about tire dynamics, which it sound like you are. The bottom line is if your tire model simulates more things, it will get it right, however there is a higher margin of error. The proof is that Reiza is constantly adjusting tire models, whereas ACC doesn't. Yet, ACC's model still get's labeled as realistic by its defenders, even after a wholesale update.

Kyuubeey said:

The main benefit of the physical model is that you don't *need* to compare it to reality, in an ideal model it'd just work if you enter the right tire characteristics. Although those tire characteristics are almost impossible to determine so it's a bit of a long shot to begin with IMO. It's a lot easier to just correlate your lateral force, longitudinal force, slip curve, thermal curve etc.

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You're wrong, or are wording this improperly. Physical tire models *only* represent on track reality. IMO is what race teams use to determine proper tire pressure and camber, not manufacturer recommended pressures created in a lab and put in marketing materials. The issue with AMS2 vs ACC is people who use "default" setups in ACC are given an easier path to adjust for tire dynamics, whereas in AMS2 its more difficult, so players don't bother, use fixed setups and then wonder why the tires aren't consistent.

Kyuubeey said:

Once someone makes an accurate tire in one of these physical models and there's telemetry to back it up, I'd want to see it. It's not that they're just hard to work with, but they're likely not even able to correlate many things at once. The behaviors are a bit more complex though, sure. It might also be the way forward for loose surface modeling because it seems like you kind of might need the individual tread blocks and whatever represented. Not too sure.

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This statement is outright dis-information. If you had ever used telemetry to evaluate a physical tire model like SETA on a corner by corner basis. and felt the effects on track, you wouldn't type such thing. It is arguably one of the things that new players to AMS2 have the most difficulty coming to terms with.

You argue consistency based on empirical models that are just as conjectured as physical, use this as a blanket of realism, that which it is not, and clearly have no experience using telemetry to determine such things, but demand proof of it.

But, I ask the players and readers to decide. If you have a widget that sets tire dynamics that is merely based on subtle track temps that change only over time in an endurance context, versus one like AMS2 which, how you as the player driver determines tire dynamics, not only on a lap to lap basis, but a corner by corner basis...which one do you is more realistic?

XhendrickX said:

Most car classes still bunny hop bounce all over the place its not just the GT3. This is a fundamentally broken part of the game (not a sim yet). Only the stock cars and a few open wheel classes are ok the rest is just poor physics and driving model. The graphics still stutter, glitch, track objects flicker, my windscreen has artifacts that pop up and go. Replays blur bad, AI crap as hell. Very frustrating experience. All this happens to content released from Nurburgring dlc onwards. All the wait for a custom championship and its very basic and unstable too many crashes. We asked the dev right here over a year ago, will you go back and fix bad content. But these concerns were ignored. For me its a studio rushing and pushing out quantity over quality. What is more of a let down is the youtubers that cover this game, just watch their content, the graphic issues I mentioned appear on their side as well yet they turn a blind eye like all is well. Not once do they ever address these issues. Not the direction I thought this game would take. Happy for those that enjoy it.

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Let's be honest here. Hovercrafting is not realistic, its just what you are used to and prefer. This is lack of physics in favor of driver experience.

steelreserv said:

assuming your packers are being activated, which is a finer detail that most users don't notice. ams2 grants more freedom in this regard. plus the aero concerns have to outweigh the mechanical ones. in ams2 the telemetry is apparent.

Perhaps, but ams2 simulates tire heat transfer and their effect on pressure is dynamic, corner to corner. The most obvious effect is how ACC models rely on optimal pressures and the ease of enabling players to set it. This ease, hurts players who transition to AMS2 as it requires players to understand pressures and optimal contact patch to a finer degree than they are used to, so they ignore it.

It sounds like cutting corners to me if you are serious about tire dynamics, which it sound like you are. The bottom line is if your tire model simulates more things, it will get it right, however there is a higher margin of error. The proof is that Reiza is constantly adjusting tire models, whereas ACC doesn't. Yet, ACC's model still get's labeled as realistic by its defenders, even after a wholesale update.

You're wrong, or are wording this improperly. Physical tire models *only* represent on track reality. IMO is what race teams use to determine proper tire pressure and camber, not manufacturer recommended pressures created in a lab and put in marketing materials. The issue with AMS2 vs ACC is people who use "default" setups in ACC are given an easier path to adjust for tire dynamics, whereas in AMS2 its more difficult, so players don't bother, use fixed setups and then wonder why the tires aren't consistent.

This statement is outright dis-information. If you had ever used telemetry to evaluate a physical tire model like SETA on a corner by corner basis. and felt the effects on track, you wouldn't type such thing. It is arguably one of the things that new players to AMS2 have the most difficulty coming to terms with.

You argue consistency based on empirical models that are just as conjectured as physical, use this as a blanket of realism, that which it is not, and clearly have no experience using telemetry to determine such things, but demand proof of it.

But, I ask the players and readers to decide. If you have a widget that sets tire dynamics that is merely based on subtle track temps that change only over time in an endurance context, versus one like AMS2 which, how you as the player driver determines tire dynamics, not only on a lap to lap basis, but a corner by corner basis...which one do you is more realistic?

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Have you ever made a simulation model for a car?