BMW M4 GT3 Coming to rFactor 2

BloodSinking said:

Yeah, because you can't keep giving free stuff to keep the interest and you seurely don't need to keep updating old content because it won't help make the sim sell you know... This is the kind of logic that made me repeat things a million times to all of discord guys, but whatever! Not all on s397 are the same I'm sure, but the whole vibe is about money.

Click to expand...

Introduce me to a business that is not about making a profit. Perhaps you have it on the pipeline?
I am sure that you can develop the all new Assetto Madre Theresa Competizione ...

Old contents has been, bit by bit, improved with PBR shaders (USF 2000, Zandvoort, Loch Drummond, ...).
Portland and Silverstone were also free, remember.
You are now entering pathological levels of fallacy. Stating something false, over and over, will not make it true.
Did S397 underperform in many facets of the development of the game?
Did they failed to correct/solve hugely nagging bugs?
SURE
But, but they introduced DX11, VR and a bunch of new contemporary contents: best Lemans, Sebring & Monza in the business, a very high quality Spa, all the Endurance and GT cars.
And now they are making another push to try to get rF2 to the next level.
Will they succeed? I don't know, but surely they need to generate income as well, in parallel, to keep things moving.
You obviously do not understand what it takes to have a business and have a payroll and a list of set, fixed expenses to cover at the end of the month.
I do.
Do you want to make a small exercise? Just multiply €5,00 for the number of people who subscribed the Ferrari 488 GT3 (15,268).
The number you get is just over € 75.000, from which you need to deduct VAT and Steam's commission.
This will leave about € 50.000, from which a licence had to be paid to Ferrari (due to Virtual LM this was reduced, as I understand, but it serves as an example).
Are they swimming in money?
Do you need another example?
Spa €9,00 x 17.508 (lets ignore the subscriptions received via highly discounted packs) = € 157.572
Take VAT and Steam's commission you get about € 110.000 BEFORE the licence paid to Spa.
Now imagine a staff of 40 people at an average (I will be gentle) of € 2500 per month (considering social security, etc), ONE month alone eats € 100.000 in payroll costs.
This is before rent, servers, consumables, etc...

Guys rf2 can succeed. They just need to listen to the community a bit more closely and copy things from other games. If they fix the bugs(ai, physics), make the steam workshop experience better and setup multiplayer like iracing(competition servers) they can succeed. It's gonna take work but i think they can do it. They just need to be less slow.

v4v474 said:

Introduce me to a business that is not about making a profit. Perhaps you have it on the pipeline?
I am sure that you can develop the all new Assetto Madre Theresa Competizione ...

Old contents has been, bit by bit, improved with PBR shaders (USF 2000, Zandvoort, Loch Drummond, ...).
Portland and Silverstone were also free, remember.
You are now entering pathological levels of fallacy. Stating something false, over and over, will not make it true.
Did S397 underperform in many facets of the development of the game?
Did they failed to correct/solve hugely nagging bugs?
SURE
But, but they introduced DX11, VR and a bunch of new contemporary contents: best Lemans, Sebring & Monza in the business, a very high quality Spa, all the Endurance and GT cars.
And now they are making another push to try to get rF2 to the next level.
Will they succeed? I don't know, but surely they need to generate income as well, in parallel, to keep things moving.
You obviously do not understand what it takes to have a business and have a payroll and a list of set, fixed expenses to cover at the end of the month.
I do.
Do you want to make a small exercise? Just multiply €5,00 for the number of people who subscribed the Ferrari 488 GT3 (15,268).
The number you get is just over € 75.000, from which you need to deduct VAT and Steam's commission.
This will leave about € 50.000, from which a licence had to be paid to Ferrari (due to Virtual LM this was reduced, as I understand, but it serves as an example).
Are they swimming in money?
Do you need another example?
Spa €9,00 x 17.508 (lets ignore the subscriptions received via highly discounted packs) = € 157.572
Take VAT and Steam's commission you get about € 110.000 BEFORE the licence paid to Spa.
Now imagine a staff of 40 people at an average (I will be gentle) of € 2500 per month (considering social security, etc), ONE month alone eats € 100.000 in payroll costs.
This is before rent, servers, consumables, etc...

Click to expand...

Ah and you keep on the absolutely non arguments at all... I didn't ever said they are swimming in money lol. They don't need to make millions of dollars to be mostly about the money they can make with rF2 now they have it. What would they do? They were sold of as far as I know by Luminis and I don't want to continue to be mean at all, but I wonder if they also saw what the community saw at the S397 work, wich wasn't specifically on the high ups as you mentioned... I still have to dig many of the fails and undelieveries of promises they made and lead ons they made for us to keep on getting "loyal" to them and for me this is it, not anymore. They could be much more transparent already with many things. All this new approach of announcing content 4 days a row... What a desperate move to create excitement. The last video of GT3 Paul commentary... So fraking annoying, but thats ok, just commenting on it.

One thing is a business to make a profit, another thing is a company that doesn't seem to be able to develop rF2 simulation potential in accordance with the rest of the market. All the things people praise of RF2 is mostly ISI merit. Graphics and all are good and they did a nice job and why I said there is some good talent guys there, but performance for example is horrid and they don't care, at least in the "dynamic" conditions they glorify so much about rF2.

For me it's easy and I still sympathise with their efforts, but I will not continue to support the company, not until some things are finally fixed at the very least. I can forgive and maybe they also can forgive me for having been a bit of a nuisance for sure, but there are things that are too frustrating about them to continue supporting them.

They have yet to update all old DLC content with better tires and so far they don't even yet have the GT3 class. It will be too long for me to not be frustrated by them in the mean time, not to mention that some of their cars have some weird suspenison or something settings that make cars seem a bit on the soft/safe side and it's not only setup as I looked!

theguy69 said:

Guys rf2 can succeed. They just need to listen to the community a bit more closely and copy things from other games. If they fix the bugs(ai, physics), make the steam workshop experience better and setup multiplayer like iracing(competition servers) they can succeed. It's gonna take work but i think they can do it. They just need to be less slow.

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This, for sure. It's hard to trust them even more because MSG released that big fail. I can't not be sceptic of it all until I see real changes and consistent changes...

v4v474 said:

Introduce me to a business that is not about making a profit. Perhaps you have it on the pipeline?
I am sure that you can develop the all new Assetto Madre Theresa Competizione ...

Old contents has been, bit by bit, improved with PBR shaders (USF 2000, Zandvoort, Loch Drummond, ...).
Portland and Silverstone were also free, remember.
You are now entering pathological levels of fallacy. Stating something false, over and over, will not make it true.
Did S397 underperform in many facets of the development of the game?
Did they failed to correct/solve hugely nagging bugs?
SURE
But, but they introduced DX11, VR and a bunch of new contemporary contents: best Lemans, Sebring & Monza in the business, a very high quality Spa, all the Endurance and GT cars.
And now they are making another push to try to get rF2 to the next level.
Will they succeed? I don't know, but surely they need to generate income as well, in parallel, to keep things moving.
You obviously do not understand what it takes to have a business and have a payroll and a list of set, fixed expenses to cover at the end of the month.
I do.
Do you want to make a small exercise? Just multiply €5,00 for the number of people who subscribed the Ferrari 488 GT3 (15,268).
The number you get is just over € 75.000, from which you need to deduct VAT and Steam's commission.
This will leave about € 50.000, from which a licence had to be paid to Ferrari (due to Virtual LM this was reduced, as I understand, but it serves as an example).
Are they swimming in money?
Do you need another example?
Spa €9,00 x 17.508 (lets ignore the subscriptions received via highly discounted packs) = € 157.572
Take VAT and Steam's commission you get about € 110.000 BEFORE the licence paid to Spa.
Now imagine a staff of 40 people at an average (I will be gentle) of € 2500 per month (considering social security, etc), ONE month alone eats € 100.000 in payroll costs.
This is before rent, servers, consumables, etc...

Click to expand...

By the way, your reply kinda supports my view... They releasd more content then they fixed stuff. Not cheap stuff. I spent 150 euros and didn't get it all, so thats one thing to think about...

v4v474 said:

Introduce me to a business that is not about making a profit.

Click to expand...

I'd rather introduce you to Kunos Simulazioni, who made a lot of profit with the original Assetto Corsa, selling 1 million+ copies, while doing all the things S397 obviously isn't capable of, like

• releasing DLC that did not come down to 5EUR per car (for example Dream Pack 1 was 15EUR for 10 cars and the first ever laser scanned Nordschleife)
• releasing plenty of free content in between (mostly cars, but also the odd track like Zandvoort or Laguna Seca)
• kept updating their engine core by adding stuff like KERS, p2p, hybrid tech and different suspension types
• updated their tire model several times over the dev cycle, going through 4 or 5 tire model revisions
• kept their old content up to date, adding the revised tire models to all of their ~170 cars and revamped the graphics of their then 12 or so tracks midway through, so all content was on the same quality standard
• supporting the modding community by offering an SDK and keeping the documentation up to date
• being open to critizism in the forums, although Stefano could sometimes be very Italian
• they also at least tried to improve their AI, which once made a big leap forwards, although I'll readily admitt AC AI never was very good and still isn't.

All that with a team that probably wasn't much bigger than ISI or S397 are. Maybe offering good value for money and listening to what you customers want is the right way to go after all.

I haven't fired up RF2 in quite some time, but each time I do I love the feeling of the drive. I wish there was a North American club to race it with. I have not found one at least.

I'll have to give it a go with the new UI. I've had some great times, even with the lackluster AI on Sebring in particular.

Gevatter said:

So three cars and one track in one push? That's like 20-25EUR worth of content, all of it endurance focused, which is more or less useless for sinlge player in rF2's current state?

Where I'm coming from is, I haven't had much to say about rF2 in recent times becaue I didn't use it at all. I've recently reinstalled rF2 because I was interested in the new UI, which I like very much. But as soon as I was in a race session, it was of course more of the same and not much fun at all after the third race restart in the first lap.

The core issues are well known by now, so I'm not bringing them up again, but I'm not investing anymore money until we're back to a usable state for single player racing that is more complex than 10 laps single make in dry conditions.

"Don't like it, don't play it"

Click to expand...

I am not in the cheer squad for Rf2 nor am I part of any division with anything in gaming. But like, you know the driving is the key thing you can do, do multiplayer or single player, just switch the flags to black only for the races - let the AI run as many laps as you can stand to wait, and look up videos about how to edit the AI, and it will be better.

Its a difficult ask to race single player in anything other than raceroom I would say. Its a tricky one because cars are bought from S397 on how they drive, and tracks too, rather than how the AI responds.

The work on them short of editing the files yourself, is probably further down the track since s397 as far as I am aware see the title's future in multiplayer as you indicate you know of. But the point stands that its how the cars drive which is most important. You do not need A.I on the track. Its moot. I race with as few cars as I can, and spend as much time in practice as possible so they learn the course. And then, to help the A.I out I make sure I save the 'real road' when I remember so I can load it, so they have a lot of grip. Make sure they get as many laps in as it puts rubber down on the road and they start to sort out who is better or worse and all that. Yes they will still knock you off and it is frustrating but I too wonder why they don't work on the AI - I am just pointing out A.I is not us driving. Which is all the economy of the title.

Gevatter said:

I'd rather introduce you to Kunos Simulazioni, who made a lot of profit with the original Assetto Corsa, selling 1 million+ copies, while doing all the things S397 obviously isn't capable of, like

• releasing DLC that did not come down to 5EUR per car (for example Dream Pack 1 was 15EUR for 10 cars and the first ever laser scanned Nordschleife)
• releasing plenty of free content in between (mostly cars, but also the odd track like Zandvoort or Laguna Seca)
• kept updating their engine core by adding stuff like KERS, p2p, hybrid tech and different suspension types
• updated their tire model several times over the dev cycle, going through 4 or 5 tire model revisions
• kept their old content up to date, adding the revised tire models to all of their ~170 cars and revamped the graphics of their then 12 or so tracks midway through, so all content was on the same quality standard
• supporting the modding community by offering an SDK and keeping the documentation up to date
• being open to critizism in the forums, although Stefano could sometimes be very Italian
• they also at least tried to improve their AI, which once made a big leap forwards, although I'll readily admitt AC AI never was very good and still isn't.

All that with a team that probably wasn't much bigger than ISI or S397 are. Maybe offering good value for money and listening to what you customers want is the right way to go after all.

Click to expand...

S397 did not develop rF2. They tried to make a business out of saving it, by buying it from ISI.
From all that has been discussed in the rF2 circles, the code left by ISI is a spaghetti mess very difficult to fiddle with.
Is/was there also ineptitude by S397 ??
I don't know, but I don't think, at all, that what was done by S397 was out of disregard for the players and that their only focus was making money.

v4v474 said:

S397 did not develop rF2. They tried to make a business out of saving it, by buying it from ISI.
From all that has been discussed in the rF2 circles, the code left by ISI is a spaghetti mess very difficult to fiddle with.
Is/was there also ineptitude by S397 ??
I don't know, but I don't think, at all, that what was done by S397 was out of disregard for the players and that their only focus was making money.

Click to expand...

Here we go with the spaghetti code mess you keep bringing on without any proof of it... It was out of disregard for the players and some reasons were money and others weren't, and the ones that weren't about money doesn't make me trust them with rF2 any more then if it was about money.

Sometimes I am amazed by the the fact that the biggest part of the racing community measures different games with different standards, dependend if it is your favorite game that you are talking about or a game where it's just cool to hop on the bandwagon and repeat the same stuff over and over again.

Every freakin' racing sim has issues with offline racing and from my experience with all of them with the exception of iRacing that I haven't tried in offline mode, rF2 is certainly on the better end when it comes to offline functionality, AI skill and AI tweaking options. Just watch GPlaps latest rF2 video and it's pretty obvious that this product still whipes the floor with the other sims when it comes to offline racing.

The AI in Kunos games is so abysmal and useless that I wonder what some of you guys are smoking. Ever tried muliclass racing in AMS2 or ACC with mixed conditions? It's the same nonesense experience as in rF2. In rF2 people allways talk about the infamous "slip streaming bug" while basicly all games suffer from the fact that AI isn't able to slip stream past slower cars. A fun fact is that this actually works in rF2 if the content is configured properly. I had some fantastic races with Tommy's DTM mod at Salzburgring and the 190s kept blasting by my slower M3. Cars getting stuck in traffic is nothing that you only experience in rF2. It actually happens in AC in normal race conditions. Yet we never see a word of wisdom.

Now the UI is updated and the studio works in a direction that the community was asking for, yet people still complain about the next thing on the list. It's crazy. You just need to read Steam reviews to understand how important that UI update was and people just get salty about the next best thing that comes to their mind.

theguy69 said:

Guys rf2 can succeed. They just need to listen to the community a bit more closely and copy things from other games. If they fix the bugs(ai, physics), make the steam workshop experience better and setup multiplayer like iracing(competition servers) they can succeed. It's gonna take work but i think they can do it. They just need to be less slow.

Click to expand...

The today's angry guys said exactly what you are saying every single day 6 or 7 years ago.

DonZmeuheu said:

Holy crap what a salty community here on RD. Im so much looking for the new content especially the new BMW M4 GT3

Click to expand...

Let's say angry not salty. Over the year the sim racing community has acquired its own character. It's very patient and generous but once it's angry, its angry, be ready to work very hard to make the members happy again...Once it's happy , it's happy and be ready to be praised even for nothing. It's mainly a community of grown man so you have to make something really bad to make it turn against you. And you have to do it for a very long period also. Also as they are grown man , they may have some influence and can use some of their intelligence against you. Imho studios have to listen and react quickly. Most of the community negative reactions is from features that arrive too late. It's a bit unfair at a certain level but If the members say the need A, you should give them A not B or C. If they ask both A, Y, Z, it's up to the studio to find a way to establish different level of priority (poll,forums,usage stats,etc) but give A,Y,Z . The worst move is not considering both A,Y,Z and give H,I,J instead .After all they pay for something they need... The only studio that seem to really understand that is Kunos. There was a moment Kunos tried to play its own game during the release of ACC but they changed path quickly as the community started to be angry and vocal. Kunos is very adaptive and its boss gives very close attention to the community need. That's why it's growing very quickly. I'm not talking about iracing as they are in an another level in term of production and merketing plus they have lot of experiences in the past. SMS,Sector3,S397,Reiza, all of them are still struggling now because at a time they didn't listen to the community.

The best M4 GT3 is in ACC, Trust me!

theguy69 said:

Guys rf2 can succeed. They just need to listen to the community a bit more closely and copy things from other games. If they fix the bugs(ai, physics), make the steam workshop experience better and setup multiplayer like iracing(competition servers) they can succeed. It's gonna take work but i think they can do it. They just need to be less slow.

Click to expand...

You forgot another step there in order to succeed.

Release a whole new game that is not a mess so people actually care about it instead of being pissed on about every aspect, from bugs, **** loading, **** business model(you need all the content on the server in order to join in), bugs, interface, crap sound...

Why would I even bother with rf2 when we have AC1, ACC, RR, AMS2? The only thing rf2 has is physics, and now in 2022 it's very debatable if it's still one of the best or not. So no point investing in this mess of a software.

R.Man said:

The today's angry guys said exactly what you are saying every single day 6 or 7 years ago.

Let's say angry not salty. Over the year the sim racing community has acquired its own character. It's very patient and generous but once it's angry, its angry, be ready to work very hard to make the members happy again...Once it's happy , it's happy and be ready to be praised even for nothing. It's mainly a community of grown man so you have to make something really bad to make it turn against you. And you have to do it for a very long period also. Imho studios have to listen and react quickly. Most of the community negative reactions is from features that arrive too late. It's a bit unfair at a certain level but If the members say the need A, you should give them A not B or C. After all they pay for it... The only studio that seem to really understand that is Kunos. There was a moment Kunos tried to play its own game during the release of ACC but they changed path quickly as the community started to be angry and vocal. Kunos is very adaptive. SMS,Sector3,S397,Reiza, all of them are still struggling now.

Click to expand...

Kunos isn't more adaptive per se. How is it that their AI is still that bad even after they tried so damn hard? Their first title was a complete fail, while their second title was a success due to it's simplicity and some well played lisencing deals and it had a nice presentation. But it actually shows that sim racing has moved away from racing simulations to the driving simulations. It's more the GT and Forza stuff that people get excited about these days. Huge free roam tracks, street cars, hundreds of hyper and street cars at best and just staring at cars - aka screenshot simulators. But at the end, AC isn't that much about racing. ACC is a bit more about racing, wich is the reason why I allways prefered it over AC, but there are some interesting shortcuts in that title, where I would have liked to see Kunos actually do something with their budget and backing. When ACC was released they had far more options than S397, S3 or Reiza.

For some wierd reason you don't read the long complaints that you read in the rF2 topics, eventhough issues are very similar or far worse. And you don't pay for features in rF2. Where are you pulling this from? It's actually the opposite. Kunos sold you a second title including DLCs with nice tracks but pretty limited car selections and some features that have been requested but never made it into the first title. I will give Kunos that they react a bit quicker and stick to their plans better, but at the end I don't see the huge advantages in Kunos titles that some people see. For me their titles have allways been a bit more simplified to a point that I find them boring at one point or another.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that people should actually take a deep breath and acknowledge that there is progress for once, before they get angry for what ever reason.

Edit: btw, the post above is a perfect example to prove my point.

PickABetterUsername01 said:

You forgot another step there in order to succeed.

Release a whole new game that is not a mess so people actually care about it instead of being pissed on about every aspect, from bugs, **** loading, **** business model(you need all the content on the server in order to join in), bugs, interface, crap sound...

Why would I even bother with rf2 when we have AC1, ACC, RR, AMS2? The only thing rf2 has is physics, and now in 2022 it's very debatable if it's still one of the best or not. So no point investing in this mess of a software.

Click to expand...

Loading times are now quite snappy since about one month ago. My system (a brute force, I grant) loads Nords in 40 seconds, from menu to garage. Spa in 18/20 seconds. Smaller tracks in 7/8 seconds.

R.Man said:

The today's angry guys said exactly what you are saying every single day 6 or 7 years ago.

Let's say angry not salty. Over the year the sim racing community has acquired its own character. It's very patient and generous but once it's angry, its angry, be ready to work very hard to make the members happy again...Once it's happy , it's happy and be ready to be praised even for nothing. It's mainly a community of grown man so you have to make something really bad to make it turn against you. And you have to do it for a very long period also. Imho studios have to listen and react quickly. Most of the community negative reactions is from features that arrive too late. It's a bit unfair at a certain level but If the members say the need A, you should give them A not B or C. If they ask both A, Y, Z, it's up to the studio to find a way to establish different level of priority (poll,forums,usage stats,etc) but give A,Y,Z . The worst move is not considering both A,Y,Z and give H,I,J instead .After all they pay for something they need... The only studio that seem to really understand that is Kunos. There was a moment Kunos tried to play its own game during the release of ACC but they changed path quickly as the community started to be angry and vocal. Kunos is very adaptive and its boss gives very close attention to the community need. That's why it's growing very quickly. I'm not talking about iracing as they are in an another level in term of production and merketing plus they have lot of experiences in the past. SMS,Sector3,S397,Reiza, all of them are still struggling now because at a time they didn't listen to the community.

Click to expand...

Kunos always had more for €€€ as AC sold really well from day 1.
If you believe you do what you want as a Studio without €€€ I don't know in what world you live in.
It's pretty obvious that S397 was under-resourced (lets hope that no longer is the case).
As an example, Marcel said that there is no Lambo GT3 on rF2 because S397 can't afford what Lamborghini asks for the licensing, not because he would not like to have it.

tr1v1um said:

Kunos isn't more adaptive per se. How is it that their AI is still that bad even after they tried so damn hard? Their first title was a complete fail, while their second title was a success due to it's simplicity and some well played lisencing deals and it had a nice presentation. But it actually shows that sim racing has moved away from racing simulations to the driving simulations. It's more the GT and Forza stuff that people get excited about these days. Huge free roam tracks, street cars, hundreds of hyper and street cars at best and just staring at cars - aka screenshot simulators. But at the end, AC isn't that much about racing. ACC is a bit more about racing, wich is the reason why I allways prefered it over AC, but there are some interesting shortcuts in that title, where I would have liked to see Kunos actually do something with their budget and backing. When ACC was released they had far more options than S397, S3 or Reiza.

For some wierd reason you don't read the long complaints that you read in the rF2 topics, eventhough issues are very similar or far worse. And you don't pay for features in rF2. Where are you pulling this from? It's actually the opposite. Kunos sold you a second title including DLCs with nice tracks but pretty limited car selections and some features that have been requested but never made it into the first title. I will give Kunos that they react a bit quicker and stick to their plans better, but at the end I don't see the huge advantages in Kunos titles that some people see. For me their titles have allways been a bit more simplified to a point that I find them boring at one point or another.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that people should actually take a deep breath and acknowledge that there is progress for once, before they get angry for what ever reason.

Click to expand...

Yes Kunos product are not perfect but they have the ability to dress a list of features that are good enough to make people happy and maintain the sim afloat. It's like they have marketing skill and psychological skill combined with some technical ability. AC for example is not perfect but very open in term of modding ( graphism, physic, cars, tracks, UI, etc.) so the community is somewhat finishing the job in the place of Kunos and the magic thing is that the community enjoy doing that. RF2 is moddable but mainly limited to cars and tracks. ACC is not perfect but good enough to make people think it's the best Gt3 sim outta here. And both of the 2 titles just work every single day for the majority of user. No bugs that preventing people to enjoy them. In my case for example Rf2 crashed few times with the new UI, then I got FFb issues, now my RF2 won't start at all...and it was like that even few yeras agoo....Can you understand the difference?

Gevatter said:

So three cars and one track in one push? That's like 20-25EUR worth of content, all of it endurance focused, which is more or less useless for sinlge player in rF2's current state?

Where I'm coming from is, I haven't had much to say about rF2 in recent times becaue I didn't use it at all. I've recently reinstalled rF2 because I was interested in the new UI, which I like very much. But as soon as I was in a race session, it was of course more of the same and not much fun at all after the third race restart in the first lap.

The core issues are well known by now, so I'm not bringing them up again, but I'm not investing anymore money until we're back to a usable state for single player racing that is more complex than 10 laps single make in dry conditions.

Click to expand...

This. So much this. Very nicely said, Gevatter! I'm sure the content will be fun to drive, but I would love it if 397 chose to invest this same level of effort in the core issues sometime soon.

R.Man said:

The today's angry guys said exactly what you are saying every single day 6 or 7 years ago.

Let's say angry not salty. Over the year the sim racing community has acquired its own character. It's very patient and generous but once it's angry, its angry, be ready to work very hard to make the members happy again...Once it's happy , it's happy and be ready to be praised even for nothing. It's mainly a community of grown man so you have to make something really bad to make it turn against you. And you have to do it for a very long period also. Imho studios have to listen and react quickly. Most of the community negative reactions is from features that arrive too late. It's a bit unfair at a certain level but If the members say the need A, you should give them A not B or C. If they ask both A, Y, Z, it's up to the studio to find a way to establish different level of priority (poll,forums,usage stats,etc) but give A,Y,Z . The worst move is not considering both A,Y,Z and give H,I,J instead .After all they pay for something they need... The only studio that seem to really understand that is Kunos. There was a moment Kunos tried to play its own game during the release of ACC but they changed path quickly as the community started to be angry and vocal. Kunos is very adaptive and its boss gives very close attention to the community need. That's why it's growing very quickly. I'm not talking about iracing as they are in an another level in term of production and merketing plus they have lot of experiences in the past. SMS,Sector3,S397,Reiza, all of them are still struggling now because at a time they didn't listen to the community.

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I hope you dont believe what you just wrote I dont mean the community just being salty with S.397, every developer sits in the same boat when we talk about this topic. I'm sure, when finally after a really long time Kunos will reveal their next update and DLC a lot of hate will rain on them because nowadays everybody hates on everything online when they not 100% satisfied. Does kunos deserves that salty behaviour? No, absolutely not but thats how the community nowadays in simracing is. Pretty Unforgiven. And why because online its easier to say something bad than something good. Even one of the founder from kunos (Marco) talked about that situation in an interview where he talked about the hate that kunos sometimes get. He said, yes we get a lot of bad comments but we know that psychologically humans tend to bash online something faster than to praise the so called improvements. Thats a fact....not only in simracing. But I get bored the f..k out to even talk about such a topic when we all await a beautiful update from RF2 and should be happy about it Lets all be satisfied about how our hobby is improving and evolving and better praise S.397 for their new UI and great new content. I think with IRacing, AC, ACC and RF2, we all have enough great sims to experience and be thankfull for how great it can be to race from home