Automobilista 2 Version 1.3 Goes Live

Wreckoning said:

I’ve also asked the same question, GTE’s in AMS 2 now drive a lot closer to the ones in RF2.

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About being near RF2. The BMW is really good. This title was disappointing to a lot of people but you guys could buy it back with a discount atm. I too nearly chucked this title out but I am glad I did not.

The only head scratcher is gt3s maybe to work on them last. Some classes of cars are unfinished but largely you can see they can save the title easily now. And just look at the Porsche GT1 = a car designed to go flat out and still handle well, just wow in AMS2. I think more and more we will see some exceptional cars. Mclaren gt1 yes very good too.

I can't explain the delight the game is right now.

Tuning is dead easy now. That car the gt1 porsche at Kyalami, I just move brake forward 2 then camber down to -2.5, then 1 up for rear downforce, at modern Kyalami. The game is not as solid as AC with CSP but its feeling really good, cant stress that enough. Its got a bit extra about it. I mean the racing is a lot like RSS mods in AC tbh, on that level, very similar with f1 reiza and others. The engine now has the goods, its just going to be more fine tuning or completing half finished cars.

I use 66 gain 20 27 0 dampener on a tx wheel, but if not belt feel free to add dampener and remove other values as u see fit. the ffb is well balanced, all the feel is there. default or plus whichever one likes

do not be afraid to remove a clutch plate in the setup for a lot of cars, too.

-reiza v10 gen 2 iirc was one and Reiza ultimate was another I did this to. or minor raise to rear wing, setting up is a lot better now no drastic changes.

- reiza f1 and senna gen 3 model 1 car was good (didnt try mp4 yet). many good ones now, drove all f1 round imola, and reiza f1 round monza and did clutch less and rear wing up 2, but for the older f1s I did nothing usually, they are wild.

- then sedans like f1 mclaren and porsche gt1 around kyalami, f1 gt's are good, wow, and minor changes only needed for example the clutch plate down one and may be camber to -2.5 front, other times like reiza f1 camber up to -3.0,....

- and then I did p3 and p4s around oulton and other tracks really nice, metalmorrow fastest one and one under non turbo in p3 i went round laguna with and no setup changes excellent. Its peak simming basically, and alot of those drives match well with RSS mods in AC. Its quality. Not everything is as high but its boding well for the future

As always I think set it up to race hard instead of winning. And put grip on medium for practice then progressive for rest. Late afternoon start so not too hot then you are set. many good cars now but sometimes the natural fluctuations of the game conditions can be offputting if you are not aware they exist like altitude or heat. I even did reiza f1 at spa and it was really good, highly immersive. Same setup I used at imola. Then the reiza ultimate. I should play this more.

I dont know I think Rf2 is in a spot of trouble. Its main thing now is a simulation for business and its really good but the consumer game is not seeing much updates.

- Most cars like rf2 need a few laps as well.

- for imola i put brakes forward 58 59 at beginning of lap and 54 at rear of lap. of all the sims I think ams2 benefits the most unless its rss mods in AC for their sedans or late model f1s where the KERS system is great to manage inc battery retake which helps braking with its leaching. AMS2 I find good but not on that level. Still ams2 is great now. 2 months back no way, ACC might be the one for gt3s but we see now the madness engine has a lot going for it. I cant predict the future but the engine clearly can do such a thing but will they be able to develop things concurrently I do not know. right now seems promising

- I put rear spoiler high as possible in gt4 ginettas (both variants but that in the faster one) and went round monaco/azure, really cool.

- lone v12 class at Adelaide, bonkers, and DPI at Daytona was nice

- donnington/dallara up a couple rear wing. not worth doing too much with the sim, ride height etc just to beat the A.I.

Was driving AMS2 some hours over the last days and wow, it feels so good since last time...
I mean it wasn't bad, but now, it feels so much nicer!

Got the Nord DLC aswell, a lot of fun!

maranello78 said:

Try ACC on GT3 and GT4 has no rivals

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I have, a properly made model in AC is still far ahead of ACC due to more devtime potential and CSP features, apart from a few minor advantages like chassis flex. Although that'll change in the future. The engines are not so dissimilar, many of the tire things have exact same parameter inputs and so on.

maranello78 said:

Don't forget the 2002 is the most funny car and really enjoy driving this classic, here Reiza put all the love and It feels great physics and maybe the BEST ffb, and Fusca is another one make me laugh on every corner, impressive physics and really enjoy oversteer in tracks like Kyalami or Redbull Ring, sometimes fast is not fun and slow doesn't means boring, that's why i love this sim.

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Honestly mate i think reiza should work to add more and more classic cars to this sim. I think the engine is perfect for them. I would absolutely love to have something like a wsc 1987 season dlc. It would be epic!

maranello78 said:

If you watch online races or replays GTE's is shaking from left to right all the time, no-real movement is rare and i think it's happen on karting too, apart Bmw is powerful more than the others GTE, and Porsche is the less powered so if you play online no one like to drive the 911, i think Reiza released and forget to update this DLC, so for now maybe i'll buy DLC tracks

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Is this something replay related or driving related?

theguy69 said:

Honestly mate i think reiza should work to add more and more classic cars to this sim. I think the engine is perfect for them. I would absolutely love to have something like a wsc 1987 season dlc. It would be epic!

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Yeah. Not enough data to make classic cars accurate anyway + physical tire model offers lots of sensations from those kind of tires that the users like. It'd on paper make a lot more sense than GT cars, but people sure love their GT cars.

williang83 said:

Is this something replay related or driving related?

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its replay related.

Avo77 said:

Yes, sadly the GT3s have always been the weakest spot in AMS2 and I can’t understand why. Stock cars are magnificent with similar power and weight so it shouldn’t be so difficult to make them decent…

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Not only they are not good enough or recent enough or varied enough, they also attracted a strom of criticism for the sim. Fortunately GTE are good and saved the honor a bit. The concept of antihero

Kyuubeey said:

Until that causes high-speed oversteer due to aero and low speed oversteer due to hitting the rear packer. Well, assuming they're simulated right.

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Ive never encountered an instance where reducing the rear spring a click or two changed the aero profile of a GT3 to induce severe aero imbalance in this way, but its possible in the extremes. If it did you would have to adjust ride height, but the mechanical principles are sound.

Kyuubeey said:

It's not useful to talk about typically American dudebro semantics and argue about which is right when they're all wrong. It's a per-case basis what happens for any given input but the terms change all the time.

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Not sure what you mean here. As far as terminology is concerned, I don't agree they should change.

Kyuubeey said:

Typically you'll see the understeer coefficient lessen somewhat on throttle lift in steady state cornering but it's not particularly true for all cars, or even most production vehicles.

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This is what v1.3 rectified. The cars always wanted to naturally turn when off throttle in AMS2, it was the clutch lsd coast phase which prevented it by not opening properly. Its not oversteer at all, but less understeer.

Kyuubeey said:

EDIT:

What does "more empirical edge of grip feel" mean? SAT doesn't correlate or align with lateral force by the way. You can't really feel it in powersteering racks either so it'll probably feel most realistic to just turn it off entirely in these kind of cars.

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It was in reference to the tire models. ACC uses an empirical model with slip graphs that can be changed to suit however the dev wants the tire to behave. AMS2 uses a physical model which simulates many other things. Arguably more difficult to work with and get right, but once its right you see tire dynamics come into play. The tires in AMS2 are simulations in and of themselves.

Alright, everyone stop B!tching about sim tire models and FFB!!!! Every time the devs try to make the FFB "feel real" they undo all the hard work I have done getting quick on the tracks. LEAVE THE FFB ALONE!!! Adapt dammit !!!

steelreserv said:

Ive never encountered an instance where reducing the rear spring a click or two changed the aero profile of a GT3 to induce severe aero imbalance in this way, but its possible in the extremes. If it did you would have to adjust ride height, but the mechanical principles are sound.

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Exactly.. If there are extreme situations where the track induces huge rear excursions user should either just make the car a bit stiffer or raise the ride height a tad... Not that difficult to do and so far I never came across cars that with a couple of clicks hit the stoppers, even F1s. Cars normally don't ride on the packers with some notable exceptions on some Nascar oval racing. But on road course racing hitting the packers other than in a straight at full speed is bad, no matter how you simulate it because it changes suddenly the suspensions stiffness, so the last thing one would want to do is ride them in a corner.

steelreserv said:

Ive never encountered an instance where reducing the rear spring a click or two changed the aero profile of a GT3 to induce severe aero imbalance in this way, but its possible in the extremes. If it did you would have to adjust ride height, but the mechanical principles are sound.



Not sure what you mean here. As far as terminology is concerned, I don't agree they should change.



This is what v1.3 rectified. The cars always wanted to naturally turn when off throttle in AMS2, it was the clutch lsd coast phase which prevented it by not opening properly. Its not oversteer at all, but less understeer.


It was in reference to the tire models. ACC uses an empirical model with slip graphs that can be changed to suit however the dev wants the tire to behave. AMS2 uses a physical model which simulates many other things. Arguably more difficult to work with and get right, but once its right you see tire dynamics come into play. The tires in AMS2 are simulations in and of themselves.

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The aero part is more about the front ARB than anything. The spring may affect packer activation if your gap is low. This is assuming an accurate behavior, of course.

AC/ACC have semi-empirical models. They're not fully empirical models (I'm pretty sure even Magic Formula isn't) nor are they necessarily much simpler than the physical models in terms of outputs. SETA barely simulates "more" things, it's mainly a different way to get the parameters, although there are some goodies which would probably be more benefit for off-road driving than on-track, which is a real advantage IMO. Let's stick to asphalt, though.

Due to more aspects being defined and interactable in the more physical SETA model, you can have some behaviors easier represented, like a less fixed SAT graph with more variables, because you have the carcass and whatever physically represented that you can start flexing around, not just a representation of the contact patch. I imagine it's good for graphics too; you have some kind of physical output to link the visual flex to for example, and you can have the sidewall and tread flex individually. Not so important for the actual tire forces, though. In a semi-empirical model like the AC/ACC one, you can just solve the end result if you know what you're solving for. Again this is assuming a flat asphalt track and not some kind of very strange tire-hanging-off-ledge-while-being-squished-from-side scenario or something.

The main benefit of the physical model is that you don't *need* to compare it to reality, in an ideal model it'd just work if you enter the right tire characteristics. Although those tire characteristics are almost impossible to determine so it's a bit of a long shot to begin with IMO. It's a lot easier to just correlate your lateral force, longitudinal force, slip curve, thermal curve etc.

Once someone makes an accurate tire in one of these physical models and there's telemetry to back it up, I'd want to see it. It's not that they're just hard to work with, but they're likely not even able to correlate many things at once. The behaviors are a bit more complex though, sure. It might also be the way forward for loose surface modeling because it seems like you kind of might need the individual tread blocks and whatever represented. Not too sure.

I agree just that SETA is fully interactable; rf2 you had to pre program it overnight, AC is relatively simple but we all know the game is great, they all work but SETA to interact with, has that extra ability going forward.

Programming takes forever.

I hasten to add its hard to split hairs with that steel guy now the spokesperson he is probably getting ready to back it all up I dont know: Well you dont get the ideal model, it will always be out or at least near enough is good enough and theres just too many outside variables too; and in code it can often come down to how it is written as much as what it describes when you break it down. I agree the whole thing with ACC and its model is they enter in the track and car with the manufacturer data and other known quantity's and they dont worry about anything else much. They will also do the air flowing over the car. AMS2 is great but when it comes to one car type and having the data, the way ACC does it, its the way to go.

The way ACC is MADE is that it leaves little room for the player to innovate. Imagine the multitude of things in ams2 u mess with, that will never be like it is in ACC, to be so close.

I think SETAs real benefit is in its width and that it allows more slip. You will never do a tank-slapper in AC but you may one day in AMS2, meaning with the suspension in AMS2 I think it will overcome deficiency's one day.

I saw the light yesterday. AC is just forward/backwards and mock sideways. ACC is good too yes.

But AMS 2 is now sideways AND forwards backwards. The tires may need to be dialled in more but its ok now. Each component is obviously separated in a way AC just does not do, and I think ACC took the linear/fixed path due to that; its what they knew how to do well, reducing those variables. Better or worse dont know, but AMS2 can be different so think it should aim for that. AMS2 engine works with more variables.

Reiza seem to have done well enough to judge now by placing constraints on the project. cant fault that, but like I said I agree with kyuubee

Most car classes still bunny hop bounce all over the place its not just the GT3. This is a fundamentally broken part of the game (not a sim yet). Only the stock cars and a few open wheel classes are ok the rest is just poor physics and driving model. The graphics still stutter, glitch, track objects flicker, my windscreen has artifacts that pop up and go. Replays blur bad, AI crap as hell. Very frustrating experience. All this happens to content released from Nurburgring dlc onwards. All the wait for a custom championship and its very basic and unstable too many crashes. We asked the dev right here over a year ago, will you go back and fix bad content. But these concerns were ignored. For me its a studio rushing and pushing out quantity over quality. What is more of a let down is the youtubers that cover this game, just watch their content, the graphic issues I mentioned appear on their side as well yet they turn a blind eye like all is well. Not once do they ever address these issues. Not the direction I thought this game would take. Happy for those that enjoy it.

XhendrickX said:

Most car classes still bunny hop bounce all over the place its not just the GT3. This is a fundamentally broken part of the game (not a sim yet). Only the stock cars and a few open wheel classes are ok the rest is just poor physics and driving model. The graphics still stutter, glitch, track objects flicker, my windscreen has artifacts that pop up and go. Replays blur bad, AI crap as hell. Very frustrating experience. All this happens to content released from Nurburgring dlc onwards. All the wait for a custom championship and its very basic and unstable too many crashes. We asked the dev right here over a year ago, will you go back and fix bad content. But these concerns were ignored. For me its a studio rushing and pushing out quantity over quality. What is more of a let down is the youtubers that cover this game, just watch their content, the graphic issues I mentioned appear on their side as well yet they turn a blind eye like all is well. Not once do they ever address these issues. Not the direction I thought this game would take. Happy for those that enjoy it.

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I would say keep plugging away at it. Its not as bad as u think.

its always sus when a YouTube guy is saying buy buy buy isnt it then you are let down. these people are given free wheels to keep for good comments and they may say nice things about the game to remain relevant. They would not realise themselves how compromised their opinions can be. from the company's point of view they then have ur money its a nice little circle for the price of one fanatec.

for me, I think I limit my choices of car like those I mentioned but under no circumstance should you abandon your other sim games, make the game earn your time. I do not expect perfection but theres a few gems now.

Prior to 1.3 the game was total rubbish. its ok now in various ways, definitely more fun if you live with some errors true. I think they will improve it for real now. Don't feel bad if you let it bake for another 5 months. For me, only the gt1s and the BMW gte get a run if they look like a sedan. ACC has a leg up with manufacturer data, but the GT1s are really good, its ok to lower your expectations, the f1 reiza and ultimate with minor tweaks go well. 1 less clutch, more rear spoiler, may be one less anti roll.

I think you overstate the bounciness overall. These cars move around in real life a lot, but thankfully the DPI and P3 or 4's are flat as a tack as they should be. Look at any on board and you will see a bouncy mess the camera is doing its best with. To facilitate it I think i put my camera on 38 and legacy.

Kyuubeey said:

Yeah. Not enough data to make classic cars accurate anyway + physical tire model offers lots of sensations from those kind of tires that the users like. It'd on paper make a lot more sense than GT cars, but people sure love their GT cars.

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GT cars are cool too but not the new ones. The old GT cars I feel were more awesome but at any rate, I'd love to have more group c cars and the old circuits like old lemans, targo florio, etc

XhendrickX said:

Most car classes still bunny hop bounce all over the place its not just the GT3. This is a fundamentally broken part of the game (not a sim yet). Only the stock cars and a few open wheel classes are ok the rest is just poor physics and driving model. The graphics still stutter, glitch, track objects flicker, my windscreen has artifacts that pop up and go. Replays blur bad, AI crap as hell. Very frustrating experience. All this happens to content released from Nurburgring dlc onwards. All the wait for a custom championship and its very basic and unstable too many crashes. We asked the dev right here over a year ago, will you go back and fix bad content. But these concerns were ignored. For me its a studio rushing and pushing out quantity over quality. What is more of a let down is the youtubers that cover this game, just watch their content, the graphic issues I mentioned appear on their side as well yet they turn a blind eye like all is well. Not once do they ever address these issues. Not the direction I thought this game would take. Happy for those that enjoy it.

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This is part pf the issue with discussions around this type of PC gaming, A multitude of configurations, everything from PC hardware, sim kit set up, game settings impact your impression of it.

I’m not going to argue with your experience all of those things are really annoying, but my experience is a completely different one. I think its part of the reason people end up getting so frustrated they want people to have the same experience as the one they really enjoy. Not in anyway saying that AMS2 is anywhere near done yet but for me this has genuinely been a big improvement.

I for example saw people talking about the ACC changes and got quite excited about the new update coming. After 4 hours on the new ACC build i’d still rather drive any othe game but that one, but thats fine at least we all have other options. I’m glad people are happy with it! but devs please don’t feel the need to copy it

I think he needs to lower his camera to 38 and switch to legacy, honestly its not bouncy or anymore than it should be, roads have bumps. One of the most fun things of driving is getting jittery eyeballs and focussing on the road. You get used to it but 38 will reduce nausea on legacy if its that.

The gt3s in AMS2 are one of its weak spots. Its not a major priority they must think we do gt3 everywhere else. More good sedans in the game though but right now sedans are patchy only some are ok. This is not the tin top sim just yet.

And bravo I appreciate ACC but no one needs two of them. Its not a volume driver of mine, only AC certain mods and tracks. AMS2 has potential. Honestly the breathe of fresh air for me are the p4s and 3s and the gt1s. just tune slightly, they are wow; acc does not strike me as fun but i see why a total sim is a thing. Always an exception ACC at Nürburgring i like its hit and miss for me.

WHAT I do

- if sedan, not gt3 in ams2, it can be bad
- gte at kyalami and Nürburgring its almost like the porsche was made for Nürburgring, even brand hatch, or similar... BMW seems to be the best over all but all are fun, but virginia likes the corvette
and I drive porsche gte at speilberg. spa is another good one
- gt4s at trickier courses like AZure/monaco or goriana.
- gt1s are freaking awesome just dial them in a tiny bit, at kylami and suzuka, rio jaquapur and many fast flowing brazil tracks.
or long beach and similar or bathurst.
gt1s are in fact some of the best cars in simming just now along with gtes depending on track though

dont drive group c a lot but when I do its often at spa

- laguna seca I do not race sedans at in AMS2 only p4s high downforce; and I only race f1 reiza or ultimate there with minor tweaks, more rear downforce reduce clutch plate, lower front arb perhaps

I also change camber at front up .5 or down .5 to get more grip often

i also do monza, so anything fast flowing. or flowing/tricky; then donnington gets a run.
IF i have to then I will reduce the power ramp a few at a time.

if its an older sedan you may have more luck. m1 at speilberg is not even good just now or i cant work it out.

With sedans it definitely needs to be horses for courses, and I honestly think a lot of sedans in the game do not have enough downforce maybe so I do not put them out of their element here.

put it this way I wont even drive gt3 at brand hatch! seriously wtf