Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Lou Sytsma]

"Definitely" is a precarious word when used in an opinion.

Definitely.

But, for me, it's no contest. There's just a muddiness to rFactor2 graphics - especially road textures that is off putting to me. Once you get into the sim and start driving it becomes less of an issue and fades away as your concentration moves onto handling your car. But it's the first look comparison where rFactor2 does not fare well for me.

 

[JeffL]

I have no problem with that, I run 2 to 3 races a week in GSCE and love it. I IMHO rf2 can look more realistic at times.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

I don't see rF2 as a complete game. It's a development program for ISImotor2.5. And it's the isimotor2.5 i'm interested in.

Pro simulators including some of the F1 simulators are build on isimotor2.
rF1 was a development program for isimotor2.
Isimotor2 is finished for a while and Raiza studio's and others take it to the sky, to program every feature possible within isimotor2.

Isimotor2/rFactorPro is the simulator of the F1 drivers of today.
Isimotor2.5 will be the simulator of F1 drivers of tomorrow. And i can enjoy it today.

Click here for more info.

I love digging into the possibilities to setup a race. From assigning teams/cars to a specific garage box and pit spot, to flag rules and all kinds of safety car procedures, to different quali settings, parc ferme settings, etc...

That's something that can't be done with other sims...

 

[Fishey55]

Fantastic stuff Gijis and thanks for the link, it puts things in a very different perspective for me ;-)

 

[Connor Caple]

I'm all for advances in technology I had already read that page before downloading the demo.

Physics are very important in racing games, but so are graphics because if the graphics are bad then you cannot spot your braking points, apexes, etc. accurately and this reduces the fun of the Sim.

They say at the bottom of that page that it has an improved graphics engine, so we'll have to wait and see what they can do with it as, currently, it looks just like Race 07 with some improved smoke effects. I'd rather have fully anti-aliased track markings and kerbs, but that's just me

I'm willing to give it a serious try as evidenced by the hours I've put into trying to sort the FFB out in the demo, which is starting to feel a lot better.

 

[John Peat]

I can say one thing with some confidence - rf2 needs optimising in a BIG way

The problem I raised earlier, of object, lighting and detail pop-up at Monaco, is a common issue apparently ameliorated only on high-end hardware

Problem is, the game isn't really taxing my PC (which is nowhere near high-end) - GPU usage and CPU usage are not excessive (it seldoms uses more than 2 cores) - which suggests the problem isn't lack of power but poor use of the power available.

You can't expect people to spend $100s to make your game work better - you need to make better use of the hardware people have.

Part of selling a PC game is spending time making it work on the wildly different specs our PCs have - I don't get the impression much of this goes on which is why a lot of people are grumbling and a few people can show 'shiny videos' which apparently proves them wrong.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

rF2 has some problems with SLI / dual GPU. For single GPU, usage is always close to 100%, at least for me. As for CPU usage, there are very few games that make proper use of more than 2 cores. With rF2 you basically won't be CPU limited unless you have some pre-2010 CPU. It's all about GPU.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

Worth noting is also that rF2 pushes the boundaries technology wise by being the first sim to go full 64-bit executable (since some builds ago). This is bigger than one may think, for the future at least. Support for more memory to be adressed, both VRAM and RAM. Also, better fidelity in physics (floating point math) if used to it's full extent.

Wish others would dare to do this. Doing it on DX9 is nothing short of awesome.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

I don't see rF2 as a complete game. It's a development program for ISImotor2.5. And it's the isimotor2.5 i'm interested in.

Pro simulators including some of the F1 simulators are build on isimotor2.
rF1 was a development program for isimotor2.
Isimotor2 is finished for a while and Raiza studio's and others take it to the sky, to program every feature possible within isimotor2.

Isimotor2/rFactorPro is the simulator of the F1 drivers of today.
Isimotor2.5 will be the simulator of F1 drivers of tomorrow. And i can enjoy it today.

Click here for more info.

I love digging into the possibilities to setup a race. From assigning teams/cars to a specific garage box and pit spot, to flag rules and all kinds of safety car procedures, to different quali settings, parc ferme settings, etc...

That's something that can't be done with other sims...

Here is a perfect example what rF2 is all about: and what ISImotor2.5 could do and ISImotor2.0 doesn't
Click here watch the clip from 2m10: he is using a profesional simulator based on ISImotor2.0.

He's saying that road dynamics and temperatures can't be simulated in the virtual world.

Hehe, i do !!!

 

[David Dominguez]

rFactor Pro has a very open architecture, it allows professional teams to plug in their own models and stuff easily. And probably that makes it much more advanced in the hands of top teams/engineers than isiMotor 2.5 - rF2.

 

[Terry Rock]

This video points out a big issue with RF2 multiplayer.
While it's not a true comparison due in part to the fact that the Rfactor2 server in the video required a third-party track, it highlights the frustration with not having official one car/one track rfmod driven servers.
It took 1:12 total time to get online in an AC multiplayer game.
It took 7:46 get online with an RF2 server including downloading a track since none of the online servers used basic content.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

If he had the missing rF2 track... it would take him less then 1 min. Including closing AC.

He would choose his car at 2.05min in the video. And if he prepares himself for a race and not jump into a public server and wreck his car after 1 lap on a track he doesn't know. The track would load a whole lot faster.

But there is some truth in the video. A lot of public server host make a Vmod with a lot of tracks and cars you need to have to drive just 1 car on 1 track online and sometimes with no "get missing component" link.


BTW: Nice to see our RACEDEPARTMENT.COM server on top of the populated servers.

 

[Terry Rock]

If he had the missing rF2 track... it would take him less then 1 min. Including closing AC.

BTW: Nice to see our RACEDEPARTMENT.COM server on top of the populated servers.

Watch out for that Task bar.
AC is actually closed during the RF2 launch.
During the AC launch, VLC music player is running and a Notepad page is open on the task bar.
Sure! RF2 would have opened sooner if all the tracks were installed.
The problem is... there are hardly any servers running RF2 only content, so this is a fairly typical and standard occurrence.

 

[Dan Allen]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

The way I see it, everything has a cycle. Maybe rFactors' 15 mins of fame is coming to an end. It's not surprising really to be honest, especially when you have games like AC and pCars out and due for release pretty soon...

As for the new official content, I swear they released some new Corvettes not too long ago?

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

rF2 is a sim though, not a game (or simcade as some could call those above mentioned), so odds are it will last a bit longer .

Seriously speaking, there is a new dedi interface out, which allows one-track cycles for hosting. Unfortunately ISI hasn't finished it yet or made much noise about it. I made a thread about it here, maybe with some more attention ISI would roll up their sleeves and finish it one day...

 

[sab00000001]

Gotta chime in. I have purchased and run pretty much every sim racing program ever put out (GPL, F1Challenge,rFactor,GTR&2,GTL, Race07), currently spending time in iRacing, rFactor2 and Assetto Corsa. My favorite is rFactor2 right now, particularly because of the EnduranceRacingX mod and the excellent Nordschleife Tourist, but I'm eagerly awaiting iRacing's Nordschleife.
All 3 of these sims are pretty awesome.
Assetto Corsa seems too easy though, like the cars really don't want to leave the track, even when it seems they should... just a little arcade-ish. Love the look, but I don't find it challenging enough, except in trying to stay out of the ai's way. Too often the force-feedback just seems to be rattling the wheel without the direct association with the road beneath me. And, I really don't care for street cars. There's far too many race cars to be done to be wasting time on the street. And if you're going to do street cars, let's see some cities or more Lake Louise types.
iRacing rocks. The level of detail on the tracks is perfect, the cars handle the way you would think (very good force feedback), the handling of multiplayer racing is superb, the private leagues, driver swap/mixed class and paying championships all add to a system that smacks of professionalism. And, well, Nordschleife is coming!
I too am concerned for rF2. I love driving in rF2. The historic tracks and cars, the excellent force feedback, the great ai driving skills (what a huge improvement over rf1!), the changeable weather, the adjustability of so many things. And I love the render quality. (I'm not one to get too tied up with HDR blooms and raindrops on my windshield though.) I did alot of hacking in rF1, getting into the details like who I want to race against for the season, that everyone was in the right pit stall, that each ai car had a good setup for each track. rF2 has made some of this more difficult but more of it easier. To be able to set up a race weekend with all the details I want (specific liveried cars with correct drivers and skill levels, correct car setups for ai, historically correct # of laps, challenging weather, ETC.) is still only in the realm of rF2. If you want ai racing with all the details, there's nowhere else to go (but back to rF1...I miss the Porsche GT1!). They definately need to do some work on the interface for rF2, as it's resolution and layout seems a decade in the past. (although the CarbonBlack interface mod is good) I am going to have to start contributing to the rF2 cause, cuz it's such a great sim. Historic liveries coming.
I hope ISI is healthy as a company. They are still the great hope for realistic historic/ai racing. (but iRacing for multiplayer championship racing, hands down.)

(btw, 1st gen i7 water cooled, 12gb, ati 7970, g27 w/load cell brake+, Bob Earl v1 frame, on a 55" curved Samsung... smoothly runs everything set to max in rf2)

 

[SunBro]

If it wasn't for urd mods, i wouldn't even buy rf2. The sim itself, the core might be good but it's just sooo lacking in gt/touring/lmp content that it's not even funny. So i really hope urd continues making proper mods and the day they stop, is the day i lose hope for rf2.

 

[Ho3n3r]

The way I see it, everything has a cycle. Maybe rFactors' 15 mins of fame is coming to an end. It's not surprising really to be honest, especially when you have games like AC and pCars out and due for release pretty soon...

As for the new official content, I swear they released some new Corvettes not too long ago?

You mean like FIFA?

But seriously, rFactor 2 has a pretty amazing core. The biggest disappointment is ISI that don't seem to be arsed about expanding and improving it at the rate that they should/could.

In some respects you're right - but the determining factor here will be whether ISI does the game justice by developing it to its full potential, rather than their "15 minutes being up". It will only be up if they allow it to pass by.

 

[David O'Reilly]

If it wasn't for urd mods, i wouldn't even buy rf2. The sim itself, the core might be good but it's just sooo lacking in gt/touring/lmp content that it's not even funny. So i really hope urd continues making proper mods and the day they stop, is the day i lose hope for rf2.

Well this is certainly one of those times where one mans meat is another mans poison.
So sorry but I have to disagree on this one.
IMO the URD products do not meet the standards of the ISI cars. They are very accessible but lack the depth of the ISI cars.
GT wise
370Z
Camaro GT3
Corvette GT2
Megane
are all sensational cars that feel alive under you and require real skill.
They all took a step forward with their latest (car) update.
I would also rank the BES 1.0 suite of GT3 cars very highly and other noteables include (IMO of course) the stunning Ferrari 458Challenge which meets or exceeds ISI level. The Spec Miata. The ASR 91/92 Open Wheel cars.

With all these cars I now don't have time to drive them all. I'm in Leagues with the FR 3.5 and the ASR 1992 cars. Got Club events with a diversity of cars. I want to get into the Formula ISI as soon as the FR 3.5 season is over.
Personally I like to get into a car by properly preparing for a race.That takes 2-3 days of setup and testing and practice. Then the race. So a half week is gone.
I guess it depends what you want to do.

 

[David O'Reilly]

The way I see it, everything has a cycle. Maybe rFactors' 15 mins of fame is coming to an end. It's not surprising really to be honest, especially when you have games like AC and pCars out and due for release pretty soon...

As for the new official content, I swear they released some new Corvettes not too long ago?

RF2 just keeps getting better and better.
as far as 15 mins goes, RF1 lasted 7 years and still going.
RF2 has more depth by far. See my post above regarding content and the tyre model alone is incredible.

A lot of us know quite a bit about Assetto Corsa and possibly Project cars.
Personally I have zero interest in either.
Have a look at the Simpit review on Assetto Corsa. He's polite but the message is clear. Its Forza for the Personal Computer. Pretty and easy to drive but not a real sim.
Project cars, there has been so much hype for so long and still nothing. I have no interest in what might be expected. I'm interested in whats here now and how good it is.

So sorry to be quite strong in my view but I totally disagree.