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[WIP] ISI GT1 GT2 GT3 BOP Mod (searching for testers)

Discussion in 'rFactor 2' started by Frederic Schornstein, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    First Version ready to download:
    http://www.racedepartment.com/threa...nissan-gtr-gt1-corvette-gt2-camaro-gt3.98100/


    Before all the text: I am looking for testers preferably very fast drivers, which are able to extract maximum performance from the cars. Everybody else is also welcome to give feedback on the cars as it is important to me, that the character of the cars stays intact. I hope to create a first test version towards the end of 2014, but that is not very likely to happen as I wont be able to start working on it before the mid of december.

    Seems @Stefan Woudenberg got me too much into car testing, that I am coming up with an idea like this.

    As I already stated in the VSC2 forum I am thinking about creating a BOP for the ISI GT1, GT2 and GT3 cars, so we could use all three cars in a race and actually race each other as a lot of people have one favorite, which was obvious in the GT1-2-3-4 club events. Actually it will be four cars as the Corvette is available with two diffrent engines. Maybe the Apex Modding SLS can be added later.

    I had a few thoughts about the approach and first off thought about weight and maybe reduce the front and rear wing settings available, so downforce would be cut down through the setup, but this would make setups for the original cars unusable, which is not nice and would make the cars a kind of extra Mod for which you have to do extra efforts in terms of setup, which I personally hate.
    Therefore I think it is better to reduce the front and rear downforce equally to keep the same balance and same setup options in terms of wing settings. Of course drag has to be adjusted on cars like the GT-R, which is a lot faster in a straight line.
    Here are some adjustments I would do for the first tests. These changes are intended to equalize the cars for long distance races. The values are not based on any data and are basically random numbers at the moment. A kind of sprint version could be possible as well in the future to spice up 45min races.

    Nissan GT-R GT1 (GT3)
    • Keep current engine and tires as they are very important for the cars characteristics
    • Reduces front and rear wing downforce by around 25% and keep the same front-rear downforce split, so GT1 setups work on the GT3 version. You will only get overall less downforce
    • Diffuser may have to be adjusted as well to keep the same aero balance
    • Increase overall drag as the car has a big top speed advantage compared to the others

    Chevrolet Corvette GT2 (GT3)
    • Keep current engine and tires as they are very important for the cars characteristics
    • Reduces front and rear wing downforce by around 10 to 15% and keep the same front-rear downforce split, so GT2 setups work on the GT3 version. You will only get overall less downforce
    • Diffuser may have to be adjusted as well to keep the same aero balance
    • Increase drag if necessary
    • Add 50kg of weight to the 2010 engine upgrade as the 2010 engine is superior in terms of power delivery and top speed, which leads to the 2009 engine being rarely used as it is more difficult to drive and not as quick (but a lot of fun). This should allow for more variety in terms of engine choice
    • Add another upgrade package based on the 2010 engine (maybe for the 2009 as well), which has auto-blip. This would be a beginner upgrade to make the car more accessible, but it will be penalised with an extra 25kg, so it cant be used to gain an overall advantage.
    Chevrolet Camaro GT3
    • Probably reduce weight by a maximum of 100kg, so changes to the GT2 and GT1 dont have to be that big.
    • The rest of the car should stay unchanged only exception could be in terms of fuel tank size and pit stop times (see fine tuning)
    Fine tuning:
    • Pit stop times can be adjusted to accomodate diffrences in longrun performance
    • Fuel tanks may have to be adjusted target are stints below 60min like with the current GT2 Corvette
    • The Camaro may keep it's fuel advantage to compensate pure lap time performance disadvantages. As the Camaro has hard tires compared to the GT-R's and Corvettes's soft tires 60min+ stints shouldnt be a problem
    Feedback and thoughts are welcome especially on giving the Camaro longer stints, which will get more strategy into the race, which some people love/hate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2014
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  2. TTupsi

    TTupsi
    Premium Member

    The three cars have different tyre compounds available, do you think if that will be a problem?
     
  3. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    It is not a big concern. The tire sizes are pretty much the same and the GT1 and GT2 have very similar tires in terms of wear and grip.
    The GT3 has indeed a bit harder tires and therefore less grip, but more durability. Therefore my aim would be to allow the GT3 to have longer stints to give it an advantage. Otherwise the GT1 may have to be cut down to much.
    A simple example in case we use WEC style stops for the cars (first fuel and driver, after that tires) a pit stop will loose you at least 70 seconds (pit lane loss included).
    If the GT1 and GT2 stint length is 55min they need 6 stops (1 of them a bit shorter) in a 6 hour race. If the GT3 can go 1hour 15min, it will be fine with 4 stops. That will save around 110 seconds in the pit lane (70 seconds + 40 seconds splash/dash).
    If we have a 2min laptime on the track, we are talking about 175 laps. This would give the GT3 car around 0.6 seconds advantage per lap.
    This would result in a more strategic race for the GT3 and can have advantages and disadvantages, but it would allow to minimize the changes on the GT1 and GT2 cars.
     
  4. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    I would be interested to do testing. I don't know if I fulfill the requirements of a "very fast driver" but I am quite quick in theGT1.
     
  5. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    That is no problem. Everyone is welcome especially A/B testing original and BOP version, checking the downforce telemetry and making sure the cars character is still intact are all taks, that dont require very fast drivers.
    The ISI Megane is very close to the GT3's on twisty tracks. Maybe it can be added as well with a biggee fuel tank.
     
  6. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    @David O'Reilly @Simon Christmann I want to do a sprint version as well (maybe even before the endurance version) with like a 50L fuel tank (for the Corvette), which would make 1 hour races 1 stop races with a relatively small pit stop window. What do you think of implementing boost/engine maps, which give you an extra bit more engine power, but consume quite a bit more fuel? So you get 1 to 5 Laps per race with extra power depending on your refueling and fuel usage.

    I am missing this kind of engine maps in rF2, but you can implement them fairly easy (according to the documentation) and control them from onboard.
    I want my engineer to say "Yellow G4" pit this lap on the radio :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2014
  7. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    Freddy I like the idea of the pit stop and the boost map.
    You could of course use fuel X 2 to save halving the tank size.

    But whereas in F1 they say "Yellow G4" pit this lap, in the Chevy they say, "Way low on gasoline there good buddy, back it off an come on in"
     
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  8. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    Double fuel use most porbably wouldnt work for 1 hour races. The Corvette most of the time runs out after 58min, that wouldnt be enough. I guess I will do the sprint version first and then check, if it works for longer races as well. Changing the tank size is an easy task :)
     
  9. Daiman Patel

    Daiman Patel
    RedShift Racing Staff Premium Member

    After your preliminary testing (and once ISI releases a new build to fix the issue of permanently applying updates) we can run a club race using these cars with your BOP patches if you like, so that you can receive more feedback and gather data that will help you to tweak your changes. :D
     
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  10. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    Thats what I have in mind :D
    I hope that Apex Modding releases the BMW and Aston soon. Including the SLS, BMW, Aston and maybe the Megane would make for 7 cars, but lets start easy with the three mentioned cars ;)
     
  11. David O'Reilly

    David O'Reilly
    A bad quali means I can go forwards in the race.

    unless you fuel save or use a conservative mixture map!
    But if you want a more aggressive map to be available and used I guess its true.
     
  12. I would love to test for you if you'd like.
     
  13. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    You're welcome. I hope I can send out a version befote christmas :)
     
  14. I would reduce to fuel capacity so that you can do approximately 40min with one tank. So you have in an one hour race a pit window of 20min which allows different strategies. If you can to only 30min or maybe 35 than you have most times only one strategy which everyone uses.
     
  15. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    In the mod some cars will still be a bit faster. These will probably be adjusted to a small pit window to give the cars that are a bit slower more chances by starting with more fuel and doing shorter stops. Pit window for the faster cars will be something like 8 to 12min and around 20min for the slowe ones :)
     
  16. like the idea

    keep the more "spirits" of the original cars is a must for this kind of modification !
     
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  17. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    Some tuning is already done and the cars are looking really close after the last update and over 1 hour they should be raceable with the APEX Modding SLS GT3 as well.

    I uploaded the first public version in the Mod section for download.
    Dont get confused. There is only one livery per car to reduce the size of the mod to make uploads for testers shorter. That can be changed later once it is close to final.

    http://www.racedepartment.com/downl...-nissan-gtr-gt1-corvette-gt2-camaro-gt3.4596/
     
  18. Cool !!!

    I will test it as soon as I can

    Unfortunatly, I am sick for the moment :sick:
     
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  19. ok !

    I just did a quick test with the C6R Gt3 BOP 2009 without autoblip at Sebring. I am quit impress for now. The balance of the car is quit the same from the GT2... I don't have the feeling that I am in a completely different car, which is very good.In fact, I used the same seyup that I tweak the gearing a little bit. Indeed the car is slower, we feel it has less power (due the extra weight maybe ?), but my laptimes were not really slower.. maybe I was .5sec slower then the GT2 2009, but I am not sure. the car feel easier to drive at the beginning but I have the feeling that the extra weight doesn't help in the long term... it will be harder on the tires, especially when you do small error.

    I was with a bunch of IA, but I had the impression that in top speed the Camaro was a about the same, even if I had lower some wing but the IA was on default.

    I did not try the other cars because I don't really have any comparison point because I did not drove the GTR and the camaro alot.


    When are we doing an online races with them ?
    I am in vacation for christmas it should be a good time to race :)

    keep the good work @Frederic Schornstein :thumbsup:
     
  20. Frederic Schornstein

    Frederic Schornstein
    TXL Racing Premium Member

    I added the download link in the first post.

    Thanks for feedback. The only change to the Corvette was a bit more weight and with the smaller tank the car is maybe 15 to 20kg heavier with 54L in the tank comoared to a full fueled original :)

    I can recommend you selecting the BOP cars (not the originals) as AI for an offline race. I usually dont enjoy racing the AI, but with the cars having diffrent pros and cons it is really fun, because the AI gets really racey.