Cars [WIP] Caterham

[unseen]

I`ll take all the same helmets if it means getting my hands on those lovely little kitties

 

[JackCY]

Kittes not ready yet. I have the model but haven't tried the latest versions. 1700 is being finished, rear live axle only, aero made, AI fixed, countless other little things when going over the files, front suspension remade from all data available and extra photos for the newer cats then modified to the old 1700 based on photos of the 2 cars I have (one ben's and one found online, that's it) the 1700 seems to have a different lower arm angle is all and it will dive more. Tyres so far are V10 customized what is possible only grip+heat values are taken from similar stock AC cars that are made available by Kunos. If anyone has any tools or pointers on making tyre compounds for AC let me know, there was some tool for rF2 I saw once but I don't think the tyre models are that similar. Sadly most Caterham tyres are custom made the CR322, CR500, ZZR/ZZS because Cats are so light. The stock tyres work fine in AC though.

Anyone has equation for calculating roll resistance in force/angle? For live axle/dedion and DWB? I have only anti-roll. Something that takes into account both geometry and other parameters of the car as well as spring and ARB stiffness. I don't think Kunos will ever add dedion or modify their live axle once again to make it more modding friendly by allowing changing where the torque is applied, adding camber and toe adjustment.

The animation is not aligned yet, car is too high and it has to be tweaked, doing that today since otherwise the suspension is finished.

 

[Ben O'Bro]

@garyjpaterson & @aphidgod guys, apologies for ringing you here, i thought you could maybe help with questions from Jack above )

 

[garyjpaterson]

'Fraid not, haven't got much (any) experience with that type of suspension, sorry.

 

[JackCY]

Any mod track recommendation for testing bottom collisions? Such as some sharp drop will do. The suspension track I have is near impossible to spawn on with any car, something with less hassle to use would be nice.

 

[garyjpaterson]

Any mod track recommendation for testing bottom collisions? Such as some sharp drop will do. The suspension track I have is near impossible to spawn on with any car, something with less hassle to use would be nice.

Have you used this? I use it a lot: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/suspensions-test-track.6770/

It spawns you from a height too, useful for checking travel and bumpstops etc.

 

[JackCY]

Have you used this? I use it a lot: http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/suspensions-test-track.6770/

It spawns you from a height too, useful for checking travel and bumpstops etc.

That's the unusable one I meant It spawns waaaaay too high destroying many cars on landing. Is there a fixed version of it with proper spawn? I have to put suspension to max every spawn, have a bottom collider working etc. to even be able to spawn, annoying when one wants to spawn multiple times. Bumpstops are useless here. It's a 2m spawn or something, insane. Plus the surface seems rough unlike any AC tarmac on regular tracks. I use it on occasion otherwise but the spawn is a nono.

 

[garyjpaterson]

That's the unusable one I meant It spawns waaaaay too high destroying many cars on landing. Is there a fixed version of it with proper spawn? I have to put suspension to max every spawn, have a bottom collider working etc. to even be able to spawn, annoying when one wants to spawn multiple times. Bumpstops are useless here. It's a 2m spawn or something, insane. Plus the surface seems rough unlike any AC tarmac on regular tracks. I use it on occasion otherwise but the spawn is a nono.

Lol, fair enough. I don't think I've ever had any problems with it destroying cars before though.

 

[JackCY]

Yeah the live axle is not very "sturdy" in AC to be dropped from a moon
I can spawn now reasonably as the rest is finished, but at the moment when I spawn the car is dropping very slowly which is annoying as well as when I move the car it suddenly crashes down and there can be damage to the car which may be obvious sometimes but not other times so I prefer to spawn and know the vehicle is damage free.

 

[JackCY]

Should be finished, just needs testing and Ben's latest model, both busy for the next week.
Sound... maybe, one day, who knows.
The gauges should be differently lit but I'm not sure what's possible in AC or worth the time spent.

 

[JackCY]

What would you say are the most punishing tracks for cars? As in usually some mod tracks with rough low poly I guess. At best slow with corners, the Cats don't really have top speed. Old long Usui, Joux Plane, Akina? Semetin rally ? Tajo is too fast but it is a rough one. Transfagarasan is fine, been driving that instead of Nord. Tourist which is way too fast for most road cars.

BTW if someone is interested in some Caterham 1700 stats let me know I will write/copy them down.

Any v1.5 parameters worth implementing? Kunos doesn't seem to use them yet.
Know of tyre guides, in terms of grip, heat etc. all those nameless and countless parameters? Considering AC probably has yet another proprietary tyre model I'm not sure any real or other sim info applies or to what extent.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

Sports land yamanashi has some crazy kerb, maybe you like it

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

Also if you want some rough asphalt you can try the traffic layout mod for black cat county

 

[JackCY]

Haven't heard of either but found them and may try them once I update (again >.<). I did transfagarasan single lane only and if one knows how to drive and doesn't force high speed entries the car handles fine even oversteer with throttle using the open diff, all about driver. Making front susp. narrower, forgot, almost, ups Should handle better a little, if it's even noticeable, might not be, length of arms doesn't play such a big role as angles do. 2 deg/m more of camber and the optional stiffer spring standard because MR changed a little too, luckily it all recalculates for me just gotta zero it out, read out the 0 position height and travel and from that the bumpstops will recalculate as well.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

Any v1.15 parameters worth implementing? Kunos doesn't seem to use them yet.
Know of tyre guides, in terms of grip, heat etc. all those nameless and countless parameters? Considering AC probably has yet another proprietary tyre model I'm not sure any real or other sim info applies or to what extent.

Most of them are...I made a detailed post about the new features here:
http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/v1-15-physics-updates.47250/

And AC most likely doesn't have a proprietary tire model (at least not one developed in-house by Kunos). Stefano would be the only one coding it and we probably wouldn't be seeing any development at all in the public version if that was the case (and that's assuming that there would be many things to change...the current TM is a pretty representative empirical model, so you'd end up just adding a bunch of additional parameters, which is more or less what the Pacejka model is). If you have questions about the pre-existing parameters, Stefano posted a few threads about them when they were released (on the official forum).

Anyway specifically I would suggest adding COMBINED_FACTOR, PRESSURE_TEMPERATURE_GAIN, and CAMBER_TEMP_SPREAD_K for sure. If you want the car to be able to flip over, add the camber look up table as well (though I don't suggest using the lut values in my post...they will not work well).

 

[JackCY]

I see so the differences between sims are mostly in values used for these older models?
Will save it for later thanks.

 

[mclarenf1papa]

I see so the differences between sims are mostly in values used for these older models?
Will save it for later thanks.

That's a lot of it, yeah...some deal with certain physical aspects in different ways, but there are generally more similarities than differences. That said, RF2, for example, is doing things quite a lot differently than the others.

 

[JackCY]

That's a lot of it, yeah...some deal with certain physical aspects in different ways, but there are generally more similarities than differences. That said, RF2, for example, is doing things quite a lot differently than the others.

To me the differences in tyre behavior between say LFS, AC, RF1 were quite large, it sure is all based on similar models but with custom tweaks and data, especially for the limit and over limit behavior.
Can you PM me some info about RF2? What's different there, especially say tyre wise? I think I've tried RF2 when it was "early" and it had some user unfriendly UI and all, how is it nowadays? What's good/bad about it, tyres or in general? I think some people swapped to RF2 or something else ($racing). Is it a big improvement over RF1? I never liked any of ISImotor based "sims", I can enjoy them sure but they felt arcadey even more than AC.

 

[JackCY]

The BUMP_STOP_PROGRESSIVE is N/m/m and added as a progressive part on top of the linear bump stop rate? Same as it should be with the spring? Can't easily verify. Plus does anyone know if the bumpstops are working on the rear at all with live axle? To me it seems they may not and even progressive bumpstop is not getting reported in log for the rear live axle, again hard to verify and figure out what AC is actually doing or not doing in this case.

Working in all the spring vs wheel motion ratio variations with wheel travel, AC still lacks proper support for it. Progressive part of spring and bumpstop is the best that can be done ATM. It should help with the front dive and it did seem to drive better a little. Dampers wise, there doesn't seem to be a setting to work in the damper speed variation.

Also can the progressive parts be negative in value or is AC going to freak out?

 

[Seven Smiles]

Caterham really can't make up their mind in manufacturing. There are about 4+ variants of the damn DeDion tube alone, 4+ of front suspension, 2+ live axles, ...

Measuring stuff and finding out that almost no two cars are the same, ever. The rear suspension is a similar mess as the front, way too many variants with minor changes.

It will be what it will be, 2 fronts (probably if the data measured from real car are good) + 1 DeDion + 1 live axle variant. Making the DeDion right now and readjusting live axle at the same time to match more precise measurements as I couldn't fine tune it on a bugged AC AXLE.

And then there's my car http://www.evo.co.uk/reviews/6284/caterham with its 3rd party suspension which handles completely differently to any other Caterham I've driven (though I haven't tried a CSR).

I'm coming late to this, I've only just bought AC, but if you want technical input I can help. I also know a few Caterham racers (including Daniel French whose car you've captured superbly).