Why is nobody talking about AI aggression? It's a dealbreaker in SP...

[Justin Davis]

My only guess is that most people on this forum are online-only racers...

The AI in this game ruin it. I can not have a clean race unless I set the difficulty ridiculously low, which is no fun... They constantly go for overtakes that a human player would immediately recognize as being impossible and then, once they inevitably go too deep, refuse to back out of their suicidal maneuver and spin me out. The AI CONSTANTLY goes for gaps that just aren't there... It's pretty much a roll of the dice as to whether or not I'm going to have a clean race. This is NOT enjoyable in the least... At least in rFactor I could dig into the .aiw's and the .hdv's and tweak all of that garbage out...

Don't get me wrong now; when I do have a lucky roll of the dice and get an incident-free race against the AI it is some of the most fun I've had playing SP in a racing sim, period. I really do enjoy the hell out of this game. I have the utmost respect for the developers, and I applaud them for being the only one of the "next gen" sims to offer a complete package and not just piecemeal cars and tracks...

There has to be a way to make it so they don't try going for ridiculous overtakes like this. I'm no programmer, but it doesn't seem like an insurmountable feat... There has to be a way to tell the AI that if you go for the overtake and the player closes the door, BACK OFF. As of right now it seems that they're oblivious. It feels like trying to complete a race against a full grid while invisible...

I'm not knocking Raceroom Racing Experience, I'm knocking the AI...

Opinions?

 

[Heppsan]

My only guess is that most people on this forum are online-only racers...

The AI in this game ruin it. I can not have a clean race unless I set the difficulty ridiculously low, which is no fun... They constantly go for overtakes that a human player would immediately recognize as being impossible and then, once they inevitably go too deep, refuse to back out of their suicidal maneuver and spin me out. The AI CONSTANTLY goes for gaps that just aren't there... It's pretty much a roll of the dice as to whether or not I'm going to have a clean race. This is NOT enjoyable in the least... At least in rFactor I could dig into the .aiw's and the .hdv's and tweak all of that garbage out...

Don't get me wrong now; when I do have a lucky roll of the dice and get an incident-free race against the AI it is some of the most fun I've had playing SP in a racing sim, period. I really do enjoy the hell out of this game. I have the utmost respect for the developers, and I applaud them for being the only one of the "next gen" sims to offer a complete package and not just piecemeal cars and tracks...

There has to be a way to make it so they don't try going for ridiculous overtakes like this. I'm no programmer, but it doesn't seem like an insurmountable feat... There has to be a way to tell the AI that if you go for the overtake and the player closes the door, BACK OFF. As of right now it seems that they're oblivious. It feels like trying to complete a race against a full grid while invisible...

I'm not knocking Raceroom Racing Experience, I'm knocking the AI...

Opinions?

I think that when you have dialed them in to the right difficulty level for your skill set. They give you really fun, tense and tight races!
I mostly have awesome times with the AI, but you really need to find the sweet spot with every car class and track! (depending on how well you know the car/track)

 

[Le_Poilu]

.. Ask yourself, if you were playing online and were treated by other players like the AI in R3E treated you, what would your reaction be?
...

Funny thing. I had exactly the opposite thought.
While racing against IA I had some doors to doors fighting, and I did thought that in the situation in an online race it would be much worst as lot of players are not so aware of you than IA.

At this time I rather prefer racing IA than going on public server.
Waiting for dedicated to enjoy some ligue racing

 

[Msportdan]

yeah trust me guys give the ai respect and you will get it back most of the time.... treat em like humans and you may get what your asking for

 

[shardshunt]

iv been playing ac a bit recently and the ai in r3e drive like angels compared to them

 

[Cosmic]

I love the AI but yes I still occasionally get rammed and spun out. I love the aggression and mild contact so I don't want to see that go away. What I'd like to see scaled down are those stronger hits that insta-spin you (uncatchable). If the game could be just a bit more forgiving in that regard I think the AI would be just about perfect.

 

[Sean Kenney]

Here's a quick challenge, if anyone is up to it...

Start a (full grid - 22 AI) race at 100% AI strength from the back of the grid. Proceed to complete 5 laps and gain at least 1 position with no major incidents. Seems to be impossible... At least for me.

I tried this about 15-20 times in a row and absolutely CANNOT get a clean couple of laps in without getting shunted (unfairly), let alone a whole race... The AI is psychotic.

This is something I can do EASILY in rFactor/GTR2/GT Legends etc... (albeit with some config tweaks...). Even in Assetto Corsa, with it's lackluster AI, I'm able to complete a race without incident.

I just did your schallenge I am pretty drunk, errr actually really drunk, so I did Zandavort, vert whatever its called(love the track!) with the ADAC 2013 cars which I am horrid at(@Emilio Collavino ) with AI at 100, TC at 25% to counteract the booze. I started at the back and finished 10th, BUT the AI pitted for some reason. I would have finished 18-20, but not because I couldn't get by them bc of rough racing, but bc I am not that great. The race was clean, only contact was from me. Ai was great. Gonna go try again and see how I do after that warm-up....

WTCC I have very few issues.

I don't know what to say. but maybe your build is bugged?

Did it again, no accidents, had some tight battles, finished 6th, but they pitted again. So would have been 19-15 as we were all packed in a line on the last two laps. So I am pretty happy with my performance and theirs all things considering. I would upload my race but my internet is gash awful.

 

[Msportdan]

6am ur drunk lol

Anyway yeah I think the Ai are good u need a bit of paint swapping in there. However one thing u have noticed is there awareness of if ur slow on a particular corner. They seem to not slow and carry normal race speed and hit you. Just a better awareness in these situations would be appreciated

 

[Sean Kenney]

6am ur drunk lol

Anyway yeah I think the Ai are good u need a bit of paint swapping in there. However one thing u have noticed is there awareness of if ur slow on a particular corner. They seem to not slow and carry normal race speed and hit you. Just a better awareness in these situations would be appreciated

It was Midnight my timezone! Just got done with all of the X-mas dinners, drinks, drinks, and more drinks

 

[Justin Davis]

Sorry guys, but my original complaint still stands...

I've bought and played the newest content, DTM '92 (which is absolutely INCREDIBLE!! Sector 3 studios have absolutely outdone themselves on this pack. Well done!), and the AI is as aggressive and blind as ever...

I understand that most of the people commenting in this thread do not see this as a serious issue. I really do. Just understand that the overwhelming majority of people who are subscribed to Race Department are going to be "hardcore" sim racers... The people who are subscribed to RD, let alone the people who actually are taking time to comment in this thread, are (one can assume) in the upper echelon of sim racing/driving skill, as compared to the rest of the gaming community at large.

With all that said, I consider myself in that very same league of sim racer. The only difference being that I am as American as they come... My choice of tracks in sim racing are mostly American (being a LONG time ALMS fanboy), so for me in particular, knowledge of lesser-known (to Americans) European tracks are limited to say the least. A lot of the tracks in R3E are completely new to me, and I mean COMPLETELY...

With that also said, I think I may have a slightly different starting position from, what I can only assume, is a mostly European user base that is commenting in this thread... What I'm getting at is that I am starting from the ground up on a lot of the R3E tracks, and that is exactly where I am experiencing the majority of my problems with the AI and their (in my own words, admittedly) "aggression". Basically, I think I'm experiencing the AI from a different vantage point from most others in this thread...

It seems as though most of your responses are along the lines of "the AI is only crazy if you're slow/in their way...". My issue with that mindset is to ME is that it seems like that would be obvious. My definition of bad AI is not that they are not fast, it's that they are not aware of their surroundings. Fast AI is one thing, AI that are AWARE is a completely separate matter. The AI in R3E are fast, no real question there, but they do NOT seem to be aware of their surroundings... When I, the typical American, decide to race at an obscure (to an American, mind you) track such as Saschenring, during Practice the AI will rear-end me on LAP ONE of practice with such force that it is really hard for me to suspend my disbelief for any period of time... When I race against AI in ANY sim, I FULLY realize that I am competing against a string of zeros and ones. Just an algorithm. BUT... In some sims, the AI is programmed in such a way that I can suspend my disbelief and IMAGINE that I am racing against a full grid of my "peers". That I am an equal. The AI in R3E does not allow me that...

If I'm slower than the pack, or if I make a mistake and slow down momentarily, I expect the other drivers to avoid wrecking and get around me... The fact that the AI in R3E don't seem to do that unless you are on equal pace or faster absolutely RUINS the immersion for me... I need to feel that the other drivers are as worried about wrecking as I am, and I just don't get that feeling with the AI in this sim. The only feeling I get are that they are out for the win at ANY cost, including wrecking themselves and anyone else out of the race.

Basically what I'm saying is that the AI in R3E are fast, but they're not aware enough for me to enjoy single player racing in the same way I can enjoy even much older sims (GT Legends, GTR2, etc...). Here's to hoping that can be tweaked in the near future...

 

[Justin Davis]

My last post was long as hell in retrospect...

TL;DR - To me, the AI are very fast, but it feels like they are only respectful if you are fast enough, yourself, to ensure that you're not in their way 100% of the time. I feel like if you slip up, or are not at 100% pace on some tracks they will continue on their line right through you...

 

[shardshunt]

My last post was long as hell in retrospect...

TL;DR - To me, the AI are very fast, but it feels like they are only respectful if you are fast enough, yourself, to ensure that you're not in their way 100% of the time. I feel like if you slip up, or are not at 100% pace on some tracks they will continue on their line right through you...

i dunno what your doing wrong but i have great races with the ai.

 

[Justin Davis]

i dunno what your doing wrong but i have great races with the ai.

Not trying to be a jerk at all, but how fast are you against them? My issue is not when you're 100% against the AI, it's when you're on your way there... Bear in mind this game is on STEAM. The biggest, and essentially ONLY, platform for PC games in the world. What would your opinion be if you were a console player who got a G27 for Christmas and decided to buy a PC racing sim to test the waters?

 

[shardshunt]

i race 95-100 in a fast car and 100-105 in a cars like gt2 dtm92 ect
also I'm kinda that person your talking about i have played only a few sims and i have a $30 nz wheel (df ex)

 

[Le_Poilu]

I don't understand your complaint here.
You say that Ai is bad because.... You don't know the tracks?

Sorry dude but when you don't know a track maybe before entering a race against ai it would be a good step to have some training on it.. Without ai.
You don't need ai to learn a track, and if you're a hard-core Sim racer as you say, learning a track should not take so long for you.

I may be European but I didn't know all the tracks in this game, I have to learn them as you. And I take time for this before making any race.

And sorry, but Ai as a pretty good awareness of you on the track, but as real player they can not anticipate if you are suddenly out of trajectory or too slow at a point. If you brake too early they may not be able to avoid you...

As I already said here, I only play against ai now and a had lots of door-to-door fight without any issue. Of course if I do wrong or brake to hard to early the guy behind me will hit me... As any human player will do.

So my advice will be to take a little bit of you time to learn the track before anything :-P
Don't forget, it's juste an Ai, it's not perfect and will never be.
Human player had their issues too. Ai is not here to help you learning the track. It's only here to fill the grid when you play alone/offline.

 

[Brandon Wright]

Yes, the AI can be aggressive when you're not up to speed. I use them as a learning tool, if they keep hitting me in a certain corner then I know I'm not taking that corner fast enough so I figure out how to take it faster. When I can do a few laps without getting hit I know I'm ready to race. Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get through the first turn but after that they really are excellent. In the last couple days I've had some of the most intense races I've ever had, and that includes races against humans.

EDIT: I use the adaptive AI.

 

[Skazz]

If you're used to AI which dives out of the way if you do something stupid, R3E's AI feels brutal at first. I originally would have agreed with you that the AI lacks awareness, but after more time racing them I realize it's actually that the AI takes only appropriate evasive action: if you do something monumentally stupid they will hit you.

Once you have some seat time, actually know the tracks a bit (many of these tracks are new to all of us, which is another draw of R3E), tune the AI to a good setting to match your own ability then the AI is excellent to race against. I love the way that unlike many other sims the field stays nicely bunched for close and interesting racing and the AI really can drive inches away in a fair manner, as long as you give them room.

 

[Aaron Markham]

With all that said, I consider myself in that very same league of sim racer. The only difference being that I am as American as they come... My choice of tracks in sim racing are mostly American (being a LONG time ALMS fanboy), so for me in particular, knowledge of lesser-known (to Americans) European tracks are limited to say the least. A lot of the tracks in R3E are completely new to me, and I mean COMPLETELY...

I'm from southern Virginia (NASCAR country) & my background is oval racing (dirt & asphalt). I like road racing but oval racing is what I was brought up on & what I've raced on in real life. Road racing is a different animal for me but I've taken the time to learn the discipline. Try this, put yourself on an actual race track in racing conditions not knowing the layout of the track & it's braking points & see what happens. You are going to end up getting ran over just like in R3E. If you suddenly brake 100 meters earlier than the guy behind you is expecting there is a real good chance your gonna get ran over. When I used to race ovals in real life a new driver who had no racing experience could cause a lot of problems on the track including getting ran over when he did something completely unexpected during a race. Like I've said before the AI in R3E is the most realistic I've ever experienced.

 

[Sean Kenney]

Sorry guys, but my original complaint still stands...

I've bought and played the newest content, DTM '92 (which is absolutely INCREDIBLE!! Sector 3 studios have absolutely outdone themselves on this pack. Well done!), and the AI is as aggressive and blind as ever...

I understand that most of the people commenting in this thread do not see this as a serious issue. I really do. Just understand that the overwhelming majority of people who are subscribed to Race Department are going to be "hardcore" sim racers... The people who are subscribed to RD, let alone the people who actually are taking time to comment in this thread, are (one can assume) in the upper echelon of sim racing/driving skill, as compared to the rest of the gaming community at large.

With all that said, I consider myself in that very same league of sim racer. The only difference being that I am as American as they come... My choice of tracks in sim racing are mostly American (being a LONG time ALMS fanboy), so for me in particular, knowledge of lesser-known (to Americans) European tracks are limited to say the least. A lot of the tracks in R3E are completely new to me, and I mean COMPLETELY...

With that also said, I think I may have a slightly different starting position from, what I can only assume, is a mostly European user base that is commenting in this thread... What I'm getting at is that I am starting from the ground up on a lot of the R3E tracks, and that is exactly where I am experiencing the majority of my problems with the AI and their (in my own words, admittedly) "aggression". Basically, I think I'm experiencing the AI from a different vantage point from most others in this thread...

It seems as though most of your responses are along the lines of "the AI is only crazy if you're slow/in their way...". My issue with that mindset is to ME is that it seems like that would be obvious. My definition of bad AI is not that they are not fast, it's that they are not aware of their surroundings. Fast AI is one thing, AI that are AWARE is a completely separate matter. The AI in R3E are fast, no real question there, but they do NOT seem to be aware of their surroundings... When I, the typical American, decide to race at an obscure (to an American, mind you) track such as Saschenring, during Practice the AI will rear-end me on LAP ONE of practice with such force that it is really hard for me to suspend my disbelief for any period of time... When I race against AI in ANY sim, I FULLY realize that I am competing against a string of zeros and ones. Just an algorithm. BUT... In some sims, the AI is programmed in such a way that I can suspend my disbelief and IMAGINE that I am racing against a full grid of my "peers". That I am an equal. The AI in R3E does not allow me that...

If I'm slower than the pack, or if I make a mistake and slow down momentarily, I expect the other drivers to avoid wrecking and get around me... The fact that the AI in R3E don't seem to do that unless you are on equal pace or faster absolutely RUINS the immersion for me... I need to feel that the other drivers are as worried about wrecking as I am, and I just don't get that feeling with the AI in this sim. The only feeling I get are that they are out for the win at ANY cost, including wrecking themselves and anyone else out of the race.

Basically what I'm saying is that the AI in R3E are fast, but they're not aware enough for me to enjoy single player racing in the same way I can enjoy even much older sims (GT Legends, GTR2, etc...). Here's to hoping that can be tweaked in the near future...

I am new to racing. I am new to RD. I am an American. I have no idea of the tracks, I have to learn them and do. I am not good. I finish last most races in mp and AI. I am not fast in general. I have little problem with the AI, but certainly sometimes it is frustrating...certainly better than real-life people!

I don't know what you are doing to get such an aggressive AI, I am not saying you are doing anything wrong, but maybe you should upload a race so we can see.

The extreme words you have used in threads here you make it seem like it is a demolition derby, it is very far from that, hence why most people are a little perplexed and disagree with your posts.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

the AI needs some personality, aggressive driver, patience driver, fast driver, slow driver, i'm-happy to-reach-the-final-lap driver etc. etc. ... and you could see it before race starts, which driver has which personality. in realracing they know their opponents aswell. Especially good for championships.

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Being a Canadian and a touring car fan I love there euro track selections, as theyes only a few north American road circuits I enjoy. You should take the time to learn a track without ai than post a video of a race once to see if it's actually aggressive ai or driver error causing this.

There's a lot info on the net to help learn new tracks.
trackpedia
YouTube has an on board of virtually every track in the world.
RAE has on board laps of every track in the dtm experience by pro drivers.
DTM Experience: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLr4ke9DY1aEnlh7FnHciqVgraLQvWQoYR

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