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Why is nobody talking about AI aggression? It's a dealbreaker in SP...

Discussion in 'RaceRoom Racing Experience' started by Justin Davis, Dec 24, 2014.

  1. Justin Davis

    Justin Davis
    Premium Member

    My only guess is that most people on this forum are online-only racers...

    The AI in this game ruin it. I can not have a clean race unless I set the difficulty ridiculously low, which is no fun... They constantly go for overtakes that a human player would immediately recognize as being impossible and then, once they inevitably go too deep, refuse to back out of their suicidal maneuver and spin me out. The AI CONSTANTLY goes for gaps that just aren't there... It's pretty much a roll of the dice as to whether or not I'm going to have a clean race. This is NOT enjoyable in the least... At least in rFactor I could dig into the .aiw's and the .hdv's and tweak all of that garbage out...

    Don't get me wrong now; when I do have a lucky roll of the dice and get an incident-free race against the AI it is some of the most fun I've had playing SP in a racing sim, period. I really do enjoy the hell out of this game. I have the utmost respect for the developers, and I applaud them for being the only one of the "next gen" sims to offer a complete package and not just piecemeal cars and tracks...

    There has to be a way to make it so they don't try going for ridiculous overtakes like this. I'm no programmer, but it doesn't seem like an insurmountable feat... There has to be a way to tell the AI that if you go for the overtake and the player closes the door, BACK OFF. As of right now it seems that they're oblivious. It feels like trying to complete a race against a full grid while invisible...

    I'm not knocking Raceroom Racing Experience, I'm knocking the AI...

    Opinions?
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  2. I like it, only problem I have with AI is braking.


    Agree a touch agressive though, not a deal breaker for me at all
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. I mostly agree with the statement that Ai is sometimes a little bit over agressive but the majority of people (me included) play mostly online so its not the biggest issue of the game.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Justin Davis

    Justin Davis
    Premium Member

    Appreciate your feedback. I just don't understand how it's not a deal-breaker, though... If I was fine with hitting "restart race" whenever I get shunted unfairly then maybe I could.

    Maybe my expectations are too high, but I expect to be able to complete a championship, competitively, without having to restart a race (and feel good about it)... Ask yourself, if you were playing online and were treated by other players like the AI in R3E treated you, what would your reaction be?

    I honestly feel that they are FAR, far, far too aggressive... At least when I compete in iRacing, overly aggressive players are penalized accordingly. The AI in R3E can do whatever they "like" with no penalty whatsoever (obviously... what "penalty" would affect an AI driver?). This makes me weary of racing against them for fear of being unfairly wrecked out... This is a big deal. It really is... Especially as I (and most others interested in racing sims) have PLENTY of other options to choose from...

    I'll say it again, this is a deal-breaker for me, and as of right now I couldn't possibly, in good conscience, recommend this game to anyone... Unless, of course, you planned on playing strictly MP...
     
  5. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium Member

    I have only been racing the AI lately but have a different opinion, I have had a lot of very good competitive races. I like how they may go to the inside but if I shut the door they try the outside. I think the AI in GSCE are more aware but once you get the lead easy to stay in front. The AI in AC punts me much more than R3E.
    Maybe it's a car/track/AI level that causes more problems. One area I would agree is coming out of the pits, I have to be very watchful of the AI and stay out of the way until I'm up to speed. Can the AI be better, sure, but as-is R3E is still may favorite at the time.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Haha Haha x 1
  6. I agree it really spoils the experience, the ai is very unforgiving I almost always get slammed into from behind or t boned on a corner. That being said I've found the WTCC ai very good.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. agree in most parts, if you have the right ai-strength you can have a good race, but sure too agressive when they are slightly faster. There are cars which are almost undriveable without crashing with AI, but they mostly are old cars, with old physics. i think they are not updated atm. gt2 is horrible AI for example. Or Oschersleben as track, i barley get a 10laps race finished there.

    There is no real damage model in r3e and no championships (in r3e), so no dealbreaker...but they improve ai with every update they said.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Kurupt CDN

    Kurupt CDN
    Touring car fanatic Premium Member

    This topic has been brought many times, and told hold to setup the adaptive Ai. Once you do that there one of the best in sim racing. I love how competitive they are and the only time I've had any incidents is 99% my own fault. Like leaving a small opening during a turn and then trying to shut the door by cutting them off. I've had them run doors and bump but never punted or rammed off the road.

    Beta :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Justin Davis

    Justin Davis
    Premium Member

    Fair enough, but unless I'm wrong, the developers said that to utilize Adaptive AI as it was intended, you need to do a few races at each track... I'm so desperate for a clean (offline) race that I may try this, but you have to admit, it's a little much to ask...

    If I was a new buyer who found the game on steam, and wanted to go ahead and do a full championship, could I really be expected to be bothered to run a few races at each track to "teach" the AI before starting a championship?

    Like I said, I am very desperate for a clean SP race, so I may go ahead and do exactly this, but it is a HUGE pain in the you-know-what just for a clean offline race...

    Will report back...
     
  10. Its not a deal breaker bc I don't have too many issues with it. ADAC GT cars I do a bit more, but as I get better I have less of a problem. WTCC, is really a non-issue.

    I think you are being far too over the top about it, I say that politely. I have only been able to race the AI until a few weeks ago, and think the AI is incredible, and have had many, many, many great races...the only time I get livid is with the braking, they brake far too well and hit me when I don't brake well, or I hit them. The rest of the the time the AI is top notch.

    This is still early stages of the AI, I think month 3....it will improve even more, but it was far better than AC a month ago and WAY better than Project Cars.

    To each their own :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Kurupt CDN

    Kurupt CDN
    Touring car fanatic Premium Member

    Nothing in the world can learn without being taught :)
    If you want good Ai it's worth the short time it takes....I just consider it practice for learning the track.
    I've found the Ai in all the other Sims I have to be 2 types.
    Ones that ram and drive through like ac & pcars or the ones that yield, slow down and get out of your way once you get near them rf2 & gsc tho both are good.
    In the end what is easier to do.....
    Running multiple races fine tuning the difficulty settings at each track or running a practice followed by a quick 5 min race ?
     
  12. what i've read, rf2 is the benchmark regarding AI...but i'm pretty sure they needed many many updates to get there. r3e just started recently with AI, so i'm still patience :cool:

    Offline-Racing and Championships are a big selling point, but no one (ok, maybe a few drivers :D) want an AI which doesn't overtake you. It's just the when and how does the AI overtake you.
     
    • Haha Haha x 1
  13. I really like the AI on the whole, it's one of the biggest attractions of the title. However I do have some frustrations with it, namely that they seem like immovable objects in any collision with the player's car.

    In GTR2, I've spent a lot of time fiddling with the AI to get them just how I like it, which obviously isn't possible here unfortunately. The one key value was AITorqueStab, which for whatever reason could be adjusted to give far more realistic results, when combined with giving them much better braking ability.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Justin Davis

    Justin Davis
    Premium Member

    Here's a quick challenge, if anyone is up to it...

    Start a (full grid - 22 AI) race at 100% AI strength from the back of the grid. Proceed to complete 5 laps and gain at least 1 position with no major incidents. Seems to be impossible... At least for me.

    I tried this about 15-20 times in a row and absolutely CANNOT get a clean couple of laps in without getting shunted (unfairly), let alone a whole race... The AI is psychotic.

    This is something I can do EASILY in rFactor/GTR2/GT Legends etc... (albeit with some config tweaks...). Even in Assetto Corsa, with it's lackluster AI, I'm able to complete a race without incident.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. William Wester

    William Wester
    Premium Member

    I use adaptive AI and train as @David Slute mentioned. If I'm not mistaken I believe single player started with Adaptive AI, they later added the ability to select a level to appease those that didn't like adaptive. I didn't like the adaptive AI when first introduced as it didn't seem to "learn" properly but lately that's all I have been using. I get competitive AI within a race or two on each track.
     
  16. the only time they are two aggressive is when I'm slower than them if you race on line and dont be aggressive yourself you can have a great race... tho a aggression slider would be nice
     
  17. The AI in the ADAC & DTM 2014 Experiences is the best AI in sim-racing hands down! I run the AI at 112% & consistently have EXCELLENT races. I've ran 15 to 20 complete races between the two Experiences & I've been taken out by an overaggressive AI car maybe once or twice. I've started last in many of my races at 112% strength & finished in the Top 5 without any problems. Any time I've had contact with the AI it was due to close hard racing or me cutting an AI car off when they were attempting to outbrake me (that's my fault so I deserve to get spun). The AI in RFactor & GTR raced each other well but when the player car entered the picture they would just lay over & not put up a fight at all. It was like shooting fish in a barrell.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. As a 95% SP player I am mostly agreed with Justin, the AI has changed a lot since December update; I used to play with AIs strengh between 109-112 depending on the circuit, but now I have to lowered it 4-5 points in order to complete a clean race, very frustrating when you have to restart 4-5 times.

    I like how competitive it is, closing the door when you are just behind, but somentimes i feel like they didnt see you or just simply ignore you are there.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Msportdan

    Msportdan
    @ Simberia @Simberia

    first few Ai builds yes I would agree, but now they are very good.. Ive even had ai evade me when they should of hit me due to my error..
    heres a few seconds from a dtm race at Moscow.

    Sorry but this is good ai..im the BMW on pole. Would like them to do the defending blocking line they do in RF2 but otherwise just as good. Very fun and challenging!!!

    View My Video
     
  20. i still don't get it with this AAI, is it enough to race a hotlap/practice and then start a race afterwards with AAI and what i'm fighting for when i start from mid-gridposition (12 of 23), podium or to hold my position...whats the aim IF it works as it should?! My last experience with AAI was not good, i could easily overtake the complete Grid after a few laps.
    And do i have to do it for every Car, or is one car from a class like gt3, enough?