What's up with the lack of mods / complete rubbish?

[Ichthus]

I see some people like Patrick release amazing tracks and some others have released excellent skins.

But apart from that nothing....just the usual old recycled crap with no new features.

What's the feeling out there? Is AMS going to be dead in the water or are great things planned?

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

Was it too many lines for you too read?
I think he is trying to tell you that in the future you will only get DLC'$
Somebody does a upload and gets hammered with undue negative comments.
If you don't like MODS then don't look in the download section! You don't like a mod then change it/ or help change it.
At the very least keep your critic constructive!

 

[xnorb]

Well, every content creator. no matter the field he's releasing content in, will get negative feedback and if the feedback says "there isn't even a skybox and AI can't complete a lap", "Just a quick conversion from rF, all AMS features missing" or similar it's constructive critique no matter if you like it or not. The internet isn't elementary school, not everything is great, shiny and rainbow.

And it's not like rF or GSCE were disabled for everybody.
If i NEED to run a rF or GSCE mod, then i launch rF or GSCE and wait for it to be released for AMS - it's not like we don't own GSCE, we do. (At least an insane majority) So we can just launch it and run the tracks there - optimized in full glory.

The download section also hosts lots of high quality mods, so why should i not go there anymore? Just because i'm not a fan AMS mods not using the new features?

 

[Alexandre Costa]

I don't understand why some people have that need for mods. The sim has not been completed yet. The original content is really great. Why do we have to race all the time in the same tracks (spa, nords, etc)? And I'm not saying that because I'm brazilian, I remember when the STCC came out for Race 07, a lot of local unknown tracks, that was really great to learn them. If there are mods to come it's better to have few excelent mods than a lot of bad content. Just my opinion, but I'm sure we can spend a lot of time with the original stuff.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

I see some people like Patrick release amazing tracks and some others have released excellent skins.

But apart from that nothing....just the usual old recycled crap with no new features.

What's the feeling out there? Is AMS going to be dead in the water or are great things planned?

AMS is some ways from v1.00. The base may be similar enough but why put so much into something that may change, come actual v1.00 launch? SCE had the same pros and cons of rFactor regarding mods. I don't know if there was a single scratch-made mod for SCE, everything we got were rF1 and GTR2 conversions, which often were GP4/GTL/NR 2003/GPL/Race07 mod conversions.

So SCE had the same scarce amazing content with rivers of average to poor conversions, but the benefit of Patrick's conversions is he leveraged his network of contacts to tweak visuals, performance and driving. So stick to SCE for now, or give it more time for the one guy to release the updated conversions. The folks that help him can be quite busy at this time and bringing delays.

 

[fortyfivekev]

I think AMS already has some baggage from its origins with people complaining that it is just an RF1 mod. I don't agree with that at all but a good way to stop those complaints would be to keep the quality of mods high. If someone wants to make a quick conversion of a car/track just for themselves and their friends then great but maybe it would be better not to put those on RD.

 

[Will Mazeo]

I don't understand why some people have that need for mods. The sim has not been completed yet. The original content is really great. Why do we have to race all the time in the same tracks (spa, nords, etc)? And I'm not saying that because I'm brazilian, I remember when the STCC came out for Race 07, a lot of local unknown tracks, that was really great to learn them. If there are mods to come it's better to have few excelent mods than a lot of bad content. Just my opinion, but I'm sure we can spend a lot of time with the original stuff.

Original stuff is always too limited and all Reiza classes are spec
I think mods are great. You see a model like Race Room if it accepeted mods people could complete the GT3 cars and balance them according to the original content, and that does not stop Sector 3 from bringing more cars that would have accurate physics. Win win for everyone. And they make a game last longer or sell a bit more IMO. (tho I can see why S3 wouldn't allow mods, makes sense for them to not let it happen)
A mix of original content with community work completing what is lacking is always good. The only sim that is doing this at some point is AC but this sim is meh. Waiting for AC 2/P Cars 2.

 

[JeffL]

"over and out to the lot of you".


I've always wanted to be a lot

 

[xnorb]

I don't understand why some people have that need for mods.

Well, PC gaming is about having options and mods add options.

If somebody wants to drive the Flintstones car or fly the F-Zero racers on Spa - he should have the option to do so. If not with original content then with mods.

But by now everybody should be very aware of software in a buggy, unfinished state or with features missing. We complain about that in gaming forums and on Steam on a daily basis. And mods aren't that much different, and just like we don't accept AC having poor AI we also don't run around praising a quick rF conversion ... because poor mods simply don't meet our quality standards.

That doesn't mean that this mod isn't downloaded and enjoyed by some - there seems to be a huge part of the racing community only racing GT3@Spa or Nordschleife all day long since 20 years. They will prefer a Nordschleife without sky textures and on rF1 track physics over any AMS track.
But others who aren't in that niche will give feedback based on current standards.

Baseline: If you can't deal with negative feedback, maybe you shouldn't release content on the internet.

 

[P*Funk]

Honestly the only need I have in any racing sim is for American tracks. Euro F1 stuff is always covered either by default content or by modders. I won't be truly at home in AMS until I get my Sebring conversion.

 

[PicoBp]

Baseline: If you can't deal with negative feedback, maybe you shouldn't release content on the internet.

Not really. The baseline is, if you're not interested in or not satisfied by the quality of some content, you have the option to ignore it and simply move on, without trashing the guy who put his spare time in for those who are happy with having at least some version of their favourite track. You have the option to not use it (and not comment on something you won't use anyway), and others have the option to enjoy.

 

[fortyfivekev]

Not really. The baseline is, if you're not interested in or not satisfied by the quality of some content, you have the option to ignore it and simply move on...

Reviews are useful even when content is free. If something is comparatively poor then it is okay to say so because it means that the next guy who comes along doesn't have to waste his time downloading and installing something just to find out it is not very good.

Most of us have limited time to spend on sim-racing and for me at least I would rather someone leaves a review if something is "bad" so I can drive something better.

A lot of the time peoples' comments look terrible because they speak English as a second language so you have to make some allowance for that.

 

[xnorb]

Not really. The baseline is, if you're not interested in or not satisfied by the quality of some content, you have the option to ignore it and simply move on

Like fortyfivekev said - that would render any review system completely useless.

I'm completely with you guys that critique needs to be founded and more descriptive than "garbage" or similar, but i'm very glad for people informing me about the quality of a product.

 

[SCE_SR]

I don't agree with that at all but a good way to stop those complaints would be to keep the quality of mods high.

Fully agree. From all SCE mods, not only 1 single (car) mod has survived on my disk for ams. I'm excited about what is to come.

 

[LilSki]

The war against bad conversions is one you will never win. At this moment there are only a handful of people building tracks properly from scratch and they are mainly for AC and maybe a few for rF2. The fact AMS has no official mod support is going to keep you from getting properly built tracks for it. No offense to Patrick but all he is doing is conversions too. It is just he is doing them "properly". The track layouts themselves are often inaccurate at best even though they look good.

When I started on my journey of learning to build tracks I examined versions of the tracks I wanted to do that already existed. All I found was wildly inaccurate layouts that were not worth the time to convert so I started from scratch.

My first track took me 8 months and I am now 4 months into my second. People just don't have that kind of time or ambition to put into a project like that. So what you get is conversions of conversions of conversions.

Also you can try to give constructive criticism to a track converter but often they will not accept any at all and get mad of you question them in any way. Why this is I have no idea.

 

[Will Mazeo]

^ that's why sims that want to be a base for mods should have a heavy focus on at least licensing tracks, building them seem to be way too difficult for the community (I'm not a modder so just guessing here)

 

[P*Funk]

Considering how most mod teams appear to indicate that getting decent 3D models is their major headache a lot of the time its not surprising that decent track mods are rare.

 

[Patrick Giranthon]

The war against bad conversions is one you will never win. At this moment there are only a handful of people building tracks properly from scratch and they are mainly for AC and maybe a few for rF2. The fact AMS has no official mod support is going to keep you from getting properly built tracks for it. No offense to Patrick but all he is doing is conversions too. It is just he is doing them "properly". The track layouts themselves are often inaccurate at best even though they look good.

When I started on my journey of learning to build tracks I examined versions of the tracks I wanted to do that already existed. All I found was wildly inaccurate layouts that were not worth the time to convert so I started from scratch.

My first track took me 8 months and I am now 4 months into my second. People just don't have that kind of time or ambition to put into a project like that. So what you get is conversions of conversions of conversions.

Also you can try to give constructive criticism to a track converter but often they will not accept any at all and get mad of you question them in any way. Why this is I have no idea.

I have read a lot of things these days about modding, even concerning me on the fabulous blog PRC. Fantastic to learn things about yourself you dont even know...
No need to react from my side, better things to do.

Concerning AMS I try to find good versions before starting anything. I have thought about starting my own tracks more than one time, but I could not jump into because of one thing : lifetime of AMS. I think I would need 10 months or so to finish one track. And then, only one track for AMS from my side...
AMS has no superv8 tracks, a real pity. Best things to do is to catch good versions and try to do something with it. I have decided not to release eastern other layouts because of inaccuracy. I have tried to tweak the road itself but it is very hard once the track is done. For other parts, there are nearly always a lot of things to tweak/correct as a track is never built in the way Reiza do. Unfortunately it is not a "simple" conversion" and there are a lot of things to do and fix. But for road layout, I agree it is not always really accurate. The choice is : no superv8 tracks because some inacurracies? Or lets go with only "average or good" layouts updated to AMS standards ? On my side, with the limited timelife of AMS, I did my choice. I do my best to correct things and match reality like I did with Eastern Creek but it is endless (and tbh honest Richo did a great job on aussie tracks). I stop when I estimate it is acceptable for the community.
I dont expect modders to come on AMS because this lifetime tbh.
For me initial content of AMs is enough, talking about cars. I dont need more. But AMS has very specific cars but not enough tracks for them sometimes (F1, SuperV8). I think it is chance to have more tracks from this point of view, even if they are not perfect (I think they are good enough and anyway poeple are free not to use them). If it can help the community to grow, then I am happy.

 

[TeSL9]

I don't have time to race or practice with all the great stock content in the game so far.. And great dlc:s are coming too. So, the sim does not really need so many car mods IMO

Patrick is doing a great job with the added tracks.

 

[P*Funk]

Fantastic to learn things about yourself you dont even know...

Until a fact is proven untrue it deserves the full weight of speculation from a cadre of unscrupulous arsonists.

 

[LilSki]

I have read a lot of things these days about modding, even concerning me on the fabulous blog PRC. Fantastic to learn things about yourself you dont even know...
No need to react from my side, better things to do.

Concerning AMS I try to find good versions before starting anything. I have thought about starting my own tracks more than one time, but I could not jump into because of one thing : lifetime of AMS. I think I would need 10 months or so to finish one track. And then, only one track for AMS from my side...
AMS has no superv8 tracks, a real pity. Best things to do is to catch good versions and try to do something with it. I have decided not to release eastern other layouts because of inaccuracy. I have tried to tweak the road itself but it is very hard once the track is done. For other parts, there are nearly always a lot of things to tweak/correct as a track is never built in the way Reiza do. Unfortunately it is not a "simple" conversion" and there are a lot of things to do and fix. But for road layout, I agree it is not always really accurate. The choice is : no superv8 tracks because some inacurracies? Or lets go with only "average or good" layouts updated to AMS standards ? On my side, with the limited timelife of AMS, I did my choice. I do my best to correct things and match reality like I did with Eastern Creek but it is endless (and tbh honest Richo did a great job on aussie tracks). I stop when I estimate it is acceptable for the community.
I dont expect modders to come on AMS because this lifetime tbh.
For me initial content of AMs is enough, talking about cars. I dont need more. But AMS has very specific cars but not enough tracks for them sometimes (F1, SuperV8). I think it is chance to have more tracks from this point of view, even if they are not perfect (I think they are good enough and anyway poeple are free not to use them). If it can help the community to grow, then I am happy.

I agree and forgot to mention as you said AMS lifespan is inherently short. But even so you will likely have the same situation with the next iteration of AMS if it is still built on the rfactor platform.

I personally have nothing against converters who do things right such as you. AC was plagued with the same bad conversions but the tides have started to change as of late. People like Tiago Lima have even gone back to older conversions and really did a good job updating them visually and updating the physical mesh so they drive right. The issue, as you know, this takes time and skill to do it right and you are still stuck with whatever layout it is whether it is accurate or not.

I have downloaded every track you have done for AMS thus far and you really do know what you are doing bringing them up to snuff visually and be fully functional. I have even considered asking if you wanted to convert my Bridgehampton to AMS. But I'm sure that is a decent amount of work due to it being built for a totally different format.

But anyway as I said it is a war you won't win against bad conversions. the best you can do is hope more people like Patrick who either have the time and knowledge to convert a track properly or build one from scratch.