What to buy? Fanatec CSW or T500RS

[Ilias Axarlis]

I'm thinking to buy CSW base with the gt2 rim and the v2 pedals, I'm actualy between this and the T500 RS, but I have found reports for bad reliability on fanatec products but there are all 1 year ago. Is there any new feedback on this? Have they fixed the problems or they are still there?

 

[RaceNut]

I have a G25 and now, the CSW for only a few days but, there is no comparison between the two. The Fanatec performance and build quality is so far beyond the Logitech that any comparison is pointless. Obviously, they are also priced very differently and that reflects the differences appropriately. Long term durability is the main advantage demonstrated by the Logitech wheel so I will keep my G25 for backup purposes. The purchase of the Logitech was an excellent choice as it has served me well for many years without issue.

I am just getting the CSW BMW wheel and CSP V2 pedals setup in various Sims and haven't had a chance to really dial things in perfectly yet but, the FFB is amazing in AC and rF2 so far. The wheel is so smooth, customizable on the fly, and the FFB feels so much more refined and accurate than the G25. I added a Leo Bodnar SLi-M to the CSW for more future add-on button possibilities and some bling-factor. These things combined ratchet up the immersion level a lot for me! I'm very impressed with the upgrades so far.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

So much envy... ME WANTS!

 

[Mika Kerttula]

So what is the result of this? Can anybody say the truth ? Just joking...I did look answers and many of them is just presenting equipments what each one has.

 

[Skazz]

None of these wheels can be tried out in a shop or suchlike.... And very few people are willing to spend €500 on a T500RS and €800-1000 on a CSW. They are to a certain extent equivalent in capability (but with their own pros and cons), so there's little point owning both unless you have multiple rigs and want to experience both.

So you get the following types of people who have experienced both:
- People who bought one, hated it and switched to the other.
- People who were able to try them at friends' houses (limited experience compared to owning one yourself).
- People who bought both to use alongside each other, or reviewers who have extensively tested both.

This means only a couple of guys really have the experience to give us a real comparison, and most of them are emphatically in favour of one or the other because they encountered a reason important enough to switch.

The rest of us made a choice for T500RS or CSW and can generally only give comparison with G25/27 or Fanatec GT2/GT3RS/CSR wheels.

 

[MarkVenom]

If i spent 1200 euro on fanatec gear and it fails i write Fanatec then i do expect them to react within 24 hours...otherwise they do not take their customers very serious don't you think so. I would go bezerk if the gear fails and i would not hear anything for two days. But just a question guys....i think 1200 euro's is a big amount of money. If you all do not think so, than it is clear why there is a miscommunication.

That again is nonsense and childish almost. If I buy a VGA card like the GTX Titan and it breaks I have to send it to Taiwan and have to wait for weeks on end before I get a replacement (if I am outside disti warranty of 6 months)-yeah they handle it for me fine, but the fact of the matter is: Just because it is a peripheral unequalled in price does NOT entitle you to uber-service. Tried to get a spare for my old G27 from Logitech once and was told to having to buy a new wheel as spares are not available at all. Under warranty they would have swapped it, out of warranty no chance. It's a throw away item. Fanatec sells spares even after warranty. You call this bad service? Btw, I never had to wait more than 8-24 hours for a response as I use the channels Fanatec wants me to use, via their web portal. UNLESS you buy a 'care'pack or some such, which Fanatec EU actually offer, you cannot expect them to jump through the hoops for one client when they are dealing with thousands. Preferential treatment can be purchased. SO I am unsure where all this blah blah comes from tbh. Secondly yes I am a Fanatec lover. Why? Because I LOVE sophisticated equipment resembling real-life devices as closely as possible with top notch engineering.

In the past Fanatec wheels were lacking in that regard. GT3, Porsche Turbo, GT2 were all plasticky with cool belt drives. The ClubSport pedals were so much more robust in comparison and so Fanatec created a wheel as robust as the CSPs and of course they charge for it. Fair enough I say. The ONLY thing ever to break on that wheelbase MAY be the motors(although I doubt it) and guess what? They are the same Mabuchi 550 you can order online from the manufacturer. I could even take my old GT3 apart to replace mine. And its not hard to do at all either. If you are not engineering savvy, you would send it to Fanatec for repair. Isn't that the same with ANYTHING else technical one buys these days? So I am not sure what all this is about.
A Volkswagen Beetle probably has a lesser failure rate than a Ferrari TestaRossa. Does that make the Beetle the better choice given you would be able to afford either? No. I rest my case.

 

[MarkVenom]

'The rest of us made a choice for T500RS or CSW and can generally only give comparison with G25/27 or Fanatec GT2/GT3RS/CSR wheels.'

What else is there??????? >.>

 

[MarkVenom]

'And very few people are willing to spend €500 on a T500RS and €800-1000 on a CSW. They are to a certain extent equivalent in capability (but with their own pros and cons),'

Agreed! The T500 has a similar feel without the quality and realism. Its really good actually. But the CSW is the enthusiast's choice. It's comparable to either buying a NVidia GTX780 or a GTX780 Titan. I don't think one would be unhappy with either. Both do the trick more than sufficiently. It's a matter of taste. Take my word for this though: In both cases you get what you pay for. And that is the truth.

You can win races with T500 or CSW. That being said: I opted for the GTX780 instead of a Titan to be able to afford the CSW as this mattered to me more. To each their own.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Well put @MarkVenom

 

[Tim Meuris]

Mark, now you definitely won me over. I'm going for the clubsportline
See, I told you, if you keep talkin'
The purchase will be in three months but I'm glad I finally made up my mind.
I know that if I'd go for the Thrustmaster,
I'll keep asking myself what I'd miss out on not having the CSW

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Me too, I'd rather have a Ferrari that works most of the time than a beetle that works all of the time to use Mark's analogy. ^^

 

[MarkVenom]

You guys make me smile. I hope it all works out for you FUNWISE! In the end that is really what matters. And hey-we all may end up with a 308GTB-Ferrari fun and utterly reliable. But time will tell, eh?

P.S. And if you guys are iRacers let me know and we drive a bit together if at all possible. How would that sound? Make a CSW party. Look me up - Mark Ludwigs-Christoff is the real name. Don't worry-I am no 'alien'-I drive like a normal human being.

P.P.S. That goes for all obviously. Regardless of kit. Look me up-send a friend invite and we race.

 

[Skazz]

... unless you race in serious online leagues and reliability is top of your requirements list... then that Ferrari would be your curse of frustration. A broken race car doesn't finish the race

 

[David O'Reilly]

I use an Fanatec CSR.
I started to have issues with a very noisy fan and intermittent downshift failure.
I sent it back under warranty.
It was repaired and returned to me within 4 days. New fan motors, new downshift sensors, updated software.
Its 2 years old now and just out of warranty. Going strong at present.
I'll possibly update to CSW. I actually have put the money aside but am tempted to use it to do my real world race license and thats a whole other story.
Edit: before buying this wheel I did a lot of reading.
I formed the view that Fanatec needed to upgrade their service infrastructure to keep pace with their obvious good R and D work. I feel they have. They advertised for repair/service advisors and hired them based in various european countries. I for example live in Wales UK and had only to send it to a guy in London.

 

[Tim Meuris]

Me too, I'd rather have a Ferrari that works most of the time than a beetle that works all of the time to use Mark's analogy. ^^

well that's still the thing that still bugs me most,
but I'm sooo ready for a new adventure
(damn, this sounds gay )
had a LOT of fun with the g25, hardly any race-ending issues
and I hope the CSW gives me that as well on top of the extra 'oumph and ooze'
When I start a championship, I try to not miss out on any race
I even write those events in my schedule planner
I know I can fall back on my trusty G25 when sthing happens with the CSW,
but oh boy, that would sting!

 

[Tim Meuris]

You guys make me smile. I hope it all works out for you FUNWISE! In the end that is really what matters. And hey-we all may end up with a 308GTB-Ferrari fun and utterly reliable. But time will tell, eh?

P.S. And if you guys are iRacers let me know and we drive a bit together if at all possible. How would that sound? Make a CSW party. Look me up - Mark Ludwigs-Christoff is the real name. Don't worry-I am no 'alien'-I drive like a normal human being.

P.P.S. That goes for all obviously. Regardless of kit. Look me up-send a friend invite and we race.

Unfortunately not an Iracer otherwise I would have gladly taken up on your offer
Mark, I found your info useful and enthusiasm convincing
if sthing happens with your csw, please post it here (or in a new thread here at rd)
and let me (us) know how it got solved
best of luck in future racing events!

(by the way, you have a CSW and still you're not an alien...: shame on you! , just kiddin'
I know it's all about the immersion)

 

[RaceNut]

Here is how I see these wheel choices after doing extensive reading over the last few weeks. I won't get into the customer service history as there are just too many variables and opinions on the matter. I'm sure I will miss a few things but, here goes:

Fanatec CSW - PROS: robust construction overall, excellent FFB feel and buttery-smooth operation, great looks / fit / finish, modular design for various purchase options, settings can be changed on the wheel itself, quick release wheel system, multiple pedal purchase options.
CONS: higher cost (about 2x T500RS when comparably configured) but, reasonable considering construction, motors may be vulnerable to overheating at high force settings, limited wheel options, limited custom wheel / modding options, FFB not as strong as T500RS but, stronger than Logitech wheels.

ThrustMaster T500RS - PROS: Robust motor with strong & excellent FFB, very fast return-to-center, custom wheel options/mod-able, reasonable price for good all-around FFB wheel, offers more compatibility with consoles, comes with good pedals, FFB way stronger than Logitech wheels.
CONS: mostly plastic construction, some history of fan issues (new version may have upgraded fans?), base is a bit bulky, buttons not very robust, history of "cogging" at higher FFB settings (May also have been improved in new versions?).

Note: the bits about the possible T500RS upgrades are based on one person opening up and inspecting their new wheel. They found what appeared to be a different motor - possibly brush-less, with a bigger fan. This is a recent discovery and has yet to be confirmed but, wheel performance was reported to be smoother than older T500RS models. Again - this is one report based on one person's observations.

In the end, I chose the CSW because of the overall construction. I also feel that if the motors should eventually fail, I can replace them myself and maybe even get upgraded units. I don't require super-strong FFB anyway and I monitor the air temps coming out of the base and lower the forces if I notice them rising. For the most part, the air has been cool coming out of the base but, some cars may induce more FFB to the wheel so it is a good idea to pay attention to the temps and make minor force reductions where needed. Having 5 presets available on the wheel makes this very easy to do as well.

 

[UFwho]

One reason for Fanatec not going to retail outlets is to keep the prices of there products down, if they sell via retail stores the store will be compelled to mark the price up to gain a little profit, every one needs to make a living. so their actually saving us money in some respects.



Is this a result of the CSS SQ having issues?, I myself have a faulty CSS-SQ, I'm in Australia so I'm hoping it wont take 90 days to resolve my problem. It does explain why it was so long between emails in regards an inquiry I made to Fanatec regards testing CSW FFB motors, which after testing have been found to be problem free.

One of the biggest problems I have with Fanatec is the blatant hype of their products and the fact they can pre-sell them. It amazes me that a company can sell something based on technical hearsay, without really having thoroughly tested the finished product, the CSS-SQ is a good example. We could pre-order it, I did, but it was delayed by the Chinese manufacturer having production line issues, so we all had to wait for our product we had payed for, granted, Fanatec gave us the option for a full refund, which many took up. but for those that stayed true many are now experiencing annoying problems that should of been eradicated before release.

If Fanatec had tested their product properly in the first place, instead of putting the mighty $$$ before consumer satisfaction and product reliability, a lot of sim-racers would be a lot happier with Fanatec right now, and they (Fanatec) would not be neck deep in warranty claims from all points of the globe. Fanatec need to realise they are their own worst enemy at the moment, they claim to make high quality sim-gear and from a personal view point I agree, but that quality is flawed and it's hurting their consumer base and there reputation. Don't get me wrong I love my Fanatec gear, but I despise paying out big bucks for faulty products due to sub-standard or inadequate testing and/or quality control.

There's an old saying my Dad drummed into my head many years ago, it's called "The 5 P's = Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance", "take note Fanatec".

Cheers!

Very well said! Before X-mas I was being given the run around. The Distributor was telling me that Fanatec was all tied up in the release of the new shifters. To which I was saying, "How can a company like them focus on an accessory for another unreliable product?!" I love the gear too. But my biggest fear in all this is that the company will eventually go under! Leaving us with a product that will be eventually unfixable!

 

[Tim Meuris]

Very well said! Before X-mas I was being given the run around. The Distributor was telling me that Fanatec was all tied up in the release of the new shifters. To which I was saying, "How can a company like them focus on an accessory for another unreliable product?!" I love the gear too. But my biggest fear in all this is that the company will eventually go under! Leaving us with a product that will be eventually unfixable!

hmmm, hadn't even thought about that possibility...

 

[MarkVenom]

That is stellar conjecture and, sorry to sound harsh, complete bullshit. Fanatec is NOT going out of business.
The second best joke of 2014 I have heard.

 

[InsaneOzzie]

That is stellar conjecture and, sorry to sound harsh, complete bullshit. Fanatec is NOT going out of business.
The second best joke of 2014 I have heard.

He didn't say "the company was going out of business", he mearly stated he was fearful that due to Fanatec's current overwhelming warranty claims that they may lose their foothold share of the market.

Fanatec have made some big marketing blunders in my opinion, the 1st was having their products made in China, sure they manufacture at low rates, but the problem I see with that is that Fanatec can't really control the quality, they should of manufactured in Germany, but it would seem profits were the biggest concern, hence using an Asian manufacturer. Which is typical in today's money orientated world.

Another blunder is selling a product that wasn't fully tested in the field, the CSW and the CSS SQ have some major problems, which should of been ironed out before they were released, Fanatec could and would of saved themselves a lot of headaches in warranty claims if they had taken the extra time to make sure the products were at least 98% fault free, but as it stands it's seems to be about 25% of the products are faulty in some way.

When I received my CSW base and Rims the F1 rim was dead out of the box, a brand new rim totally unusable, that is very poor quality control in my opinion, can you imagine if a car maker released a new car with components that didn't work, they would be sued in a moment flat and end up going out of business.

My CSS SQ has an issue that I believe should of been sorted long before release, my Sequential return springs have failed and the shifter no longer resets itself to centre/center, this to me is unacceptable, it seems to be a design flaw and should of been eradicated before release considering the price of the product.

We consumers expect much for our money, especially when the product gets months of hype prior to release and costs a substantial amount of your hard earned income. Fanatec have already lost many prospective customers purely due to their products being faulty and problematic, you just need to read some of the hardware forums to see why, this one is no different.

Fanatec are also losing established customers, the one thing that is hurting them the most is their after sales service, and it's not the staff, it's the amount of claims they are getting from around the globe, they simply cant keep up and the consumer is getting annoyed with waiting so long for a reply or replacement. I have waited 3 to 4 weeks for a reply for info to test my FFB motors, sure it wasn't a high priority for Fanatec, but still to long to wait in my opinion.

These are just my opinions as a Fanatec product owner.

Cheers!