What to buy? Fanatec CSW or T500RS

Ilias Axarlis · Nov 13, 2013

I'm thinking to buy CSW base with the gt2 rim and the v2 pedals, I'm actualy between this and the T500 RS, but I have found reports for bad reliability on fanatec products but there are all 1 year ago. Is there any new feedback on this? Have they fixed the problems or they are still there?

eKretz · Mar 25, 2014

Hi Saleem, thank you for the kind words. I have been registered here for quite some time but I feel like a chicken with my head cut off sometimes I am getting pulled in so many directions at once, so sometimes I do much more reading than posting. I also try to keep most of my mod stuff to one forum so the information isn't decentralized. I don't have a whole lot of $$ being that I can't work full time so I don't have much $$ to spread around as far as memberships or even some of the newer sims sadly. Some months I have a hard time giving $15 to my pain management doctor at my monthly visit. I will send you a PM regarding your very generous offer.

Leemstradamus · Mar 25, 2014

The offer still stands, your work has been amazing! I also bought my five year old assetto corsa but I haven't built him a computer yet so it's just sitting there. Would like that instead?

eKretz · Mar 25, 2014

Actually I JUST got that from one of the guys I did mod work for through Steam. Thanks very much for the offer though! You're very generous.

On another note, if there are any CSW or Elite owners here who would like some extra stock motors, I have gotten my hands on several sets through a contact. They are in the mail as we speak. Contact me through PM if interested as I've started a list - first come first served. I'm not sure exactly how many I have until they get here, but for those who can't spend more money to mod these could be useful.

eKretz · Mar 25, 2014

Another thing regarding heat in these wheels. The reason you don't feel any heat coming out of your wheel is twofold. Firstly the stock heatsink isn't doing that great of a job getting the heat out of the motors, and second, as stated by a previous poster, air is a very good insulator. You will never feel heat in the top of your wheel housing with your stock wheel because the heat is only being transferred to the heat sink and pulled out the side of the wheel base by the fan(s). The air above that even gets any heat transfer is pulled right out of there and never reaches the top. A very large percentage of heat is still inside the motor can and in the windings, armature and magnets. A car hood is a very poor comparison since there's no sealed environment with fans pulling air out of the engine compartment. On top of that there is a huge fan pulling hot air through the radiator and depositing it on top of an already hot engine. Also this hot air is free to rise and radiate into the hood since nothing is pulling it out like the fans in a Fanatec wheel base. I invite the poster who thinks there is no heat problem because the heat isn't rising to the top of his wheel base to run a 2 hour race in a heavy FFB car with his clear cover off and to lay a finger on his motor can at the end of the race. I will maybe hear him scream from across the earth, lol.

One of the guys running my air cooling setup just finished a 2 hour endurance race with NO FFB fade at all. Within 3 - 5 minutes of the end of his race his wheel had cooled back to room temperature. Try that with the stock motors and cooling setup. With the pumped air setup pushing outside room air through the inside of the motor can there is a lot more heat exiting the important parts of the motors into the wheel base and you can feel it both above the motors and at the side of the base near the fan exit. This heat never gets removed from inside the stock motors with the stock cooling. Here's what he sent me after his race when I asked him how it went:

"I didn't do too bad, there were 14 cars that started 4 classes(Grand am/ALMS). I am driving the RUF Track. I Qualified 4 out of 6 and finished 4th and 10th overall. Wrecked twice and was 8 laps behind the winner. The wheel was AWESOME, was a little warm on the outside of base , but never weakened the FF. This wheel is now how I wanted it to feel when I first bought it. I can never thank you enough for tinkering around and modding these bases.:bowdown:"

Also, new armatures:

Used armatures. The Bühler armature was used for over a year. The stock armature for a few months:

Purple and blue coloring on steel or iron indicates 500°-600°F (260°-315°C) temperature was reached. The wire insulation on the stock armature is blackened from heat also. On top of that, the soldered-on ring from the stock armature visible in the "new" photo was found rattling around loose in the stock motor can - more proof that the motor was getting ridiculously hot - it melted the solder holding it in place - at least 220°C to do that.

Noel Spence · Mar 25, 2014

omg the top one still looks new , it looks like the top motor has thicker windings and a bigger armature therefore it is definitely the man for the job , got any spare ekretz

Kjell Eilertsen · Mar 25, 2014

Very interesting, anyone know if Fanatec are taking notes of this and hopefully improving future versions of the wheel?

Pär Öqvist · Mar 25, 2014

eKretz said:
Ah. Yes, that's correct. I thought that was apparent when I said, "RacerX yanked all his posts out of the original thread I started on GTP" but perhaps it slipped by some readers due to walloftext effect.

Yes I am in that conversation. I just couldn´t find the racerxx quote in this thread

eKretz · Mar 25, 2014

Noel Spence said:
omg the top one still looks new , it looks like the top motor has thicker windings and a bigger armature therefore it is definitely the man for the job , got any spare ekretz

PM'ed you back.

Koston82 · Mar 25, 2014

After waiting waiting patiently for thrustmaster to msg me back with how to ship this wheel back I just received an email with this in it.

3. Provide us with a copy of the invoice and a picture with the sticker placed underneath the wheel's base.

Now I explained in prior emails that this wheel was won in a competition. Not much I can complain about as I got a free wheel. But I can complain the I've purchased the gte wheel, f1 wheel, 2 x sparcos and dsd adaptors. All in all I've spent close to a grand on extras just for this wheel.

I've emailed them back and explained again. Just have to wait and see.

Leemstradamus · Mar 25, 2014

Koston82 said:
After waiting waiting patiently for thrustmaster to msg me back with how to ship this wheel back I just received an email with this in it.

3. Provide us with a copy of the invoice and a picture with the sticker placed underneath the wheel's base.

Now I explained in prior emails that this wheel was won in a competition. Not much I can complain about as I got a free wheel. But I can complain the I've purchased the gte wheel, f1 wheel, 2 x sparcos and dsd adaptors. All in all I've spent close to a grand on extras just for this wheel.

I've emailed them back and explained again. Just have to wait and see.

That sucks!

Kjell Eilertsen · Mar 25, 2014

Koston82 said:
After waiting waiting patiently for thrustmaster to msg me back with how to ship this wheel back I just received an email with this in it.

3. Provide us with a copy of the invoice and a picture with the sticker placed underneath the wheel's base.

Now I explained in prior emails that this wheel was won in a competition. Not much I can complain about as I got a free wheel. But I can complain the I've purchased the gte wheel, f1 wheel, 2 x sparcos and dsd adaptors. All in all I've spent close to a grand on extras just for this wheel.

I've emailed them back and explained again. Just have to wait and see.

Gotta love them "Hey, we didn't bother to read your email/case and instead sent you this standard template reply that we send everybody else" type of replies one gets from most support deps these days.

Tim Meuris · Mar 25, 2014

eKretz said:
Another thing regarding heat in these wheels. The reason you don't feel any heat coming out of your wheel is twofold. Firstly the stock heatsink isn't doing that great of a job getting the heat out of the motors, and second, as stated by a previous poster, air is a very good insulator. You will never feel heat in the top of your wheel housing with your stock wheel because the heat is only being transferred to the heat sink and pulled out the side of the wheel base by the fan(s). The air above that even gets any heat transfer is pulled right out of there and never reaches the top. A very large percentage of heat is still inside the motor can and in the windings, armature and magnets. A car hood is a very poor comparison since there's no sealed environment with fans pulling air out of the engine compartment. On top of that there is a huge fan pulling hot air through the radiator and depositing it on top of an already hot engine. Also this hot air is free to rise and radiate into the hood since nothing is pulling it out like the fans in a Fanatec wheel base. I invite the poster who thinks there is no heat problem because the heat isn't rising to the top of his wheel base to run a 2 hour race in a heavy FFB car with his clear cover off and to lay a finger on his motor can at the end of the race. I will maybe hear him scream from across the earth, lol.

One of the guys running my air cooling setup just finished a 2 hour endurance race with NO FFB fade at all. Within 3 - 5 minutes of the end of his race his wheel had cooled back to room temperature. Try that with the stock motors and cooling setup. With the pumped air setup pushing outside room air through the inside of the motor can there is a lot more heat exiting the important parts of the motors into the wheel base and you can feel it both above the motors and at the side of the base near the fan exit. This heat never gets removed from inside the stock motors with the stock cooling. Here's what he sent me after his race when I asked him how it went:

"I didn't do too bad, there were 14 cars that started 4 classes(Grand am/ALMS). I am driving the RUF Track. I Qualified 4 out of 6 and finished 4th and 10th overall. Wrecked twice and was 8 laps behind the winner. The wheel was AWESOME, was a little warm on the outside of base , but never weakened the FF. This wheel is now how I wanted it to feel when I first bought it. I can never thank you enough for tinkering around and modding these bases.:bowdown:"

Also, new armatures:

Used armatures. The Bühler armature was used for over a year. The stock armature for a few months:

Purple and blue coloring on steel or iron indicates 500°-600°F (260°-315°C) temperature was reached. The wire insulation on the stock armature is blackened from heat also. On top of that, the soldered-on ring from the stock armature visible in the "new" photo was found rattling around loose in the stock motor can - more proof that the motor was getting ridiculously hot - it melted the solder holding it in place - at least 220°C to do that.

it would be a shame and a BIG mistake if Fanatec didn't do sthing with this VITAL info!!

Leemstradamus · Mar 25, 2014

I agree, like I told @eKretz, it looks like they ended up having to cut corners to keep cost down but overall it looks to be very solid kit. I'm all for buying something and making it better. The baseline just has to be solid. Look at what people have done to the g25 and g27 over the years. That's the reason I went with the Fanatec CSW wheel. It looks like it one day can be an amazing platform once the talented modders get to it.

Tim Meuris · Mar 25, 2014

Saleem Hodge said:
I agree, like I told @eKretz, it looks like they ended up having to cut corners to keep cost down but overall it looks to be very solid kit. I'm all for buying something and making it better. The baseline just has to be solid. Look at what people have done to the g25 and g27 over the years. That's the reason I went with the Fanatec CSW wheel. It looks like it one day can be an amazing platform once the talented modders get to it.

well Saleem, I often agreed with you,
and ll probably still agree with you often, but not this time

for that money I expect something to work out of the box
and those overheating issues shouldn't have to become my problem
okay, you can mod it, but such a major flaw should be ironed out by fanatec
not by some creative hobbyists
although much respect to those guys for doin it...

Leemstradamus · Mar 26, 2014

Tim Meuris said:
well Saleem, I often agreed with you,
and ll probably still agree with you often, but not this time
for that money I expect something to work out of the box
and those overheating issues shouldn't have to become my problem
okay, you can mod it, but such a major flaw should be ironed out by fanatec
not by some creative hobbyists
although much respect to those guys for doin it...

Nope you still agree with me. I must have not stated my point clearly. I was trying to say look at the g27 and g25. They have modded it to the moon and back. Some amazing stuff has been done to them but the base product is solid. It doesn't have any basic design flaws in it. It's an off the shelf product that works great. Now if you want more from it that is where the modders come in at.

With the CSW it can be that one day as well but in the mean time it isn't there. It has a design flaw with the motors that they choose and how capable the are at delivering on what its supposed to. I agree 100% at any price point, let alone this one it should work flawlessly. Now getting more from it should be the next step.

Tim Meuris · Mar 26, 2014

Saleem Hodge said:
Nope you still agree with me. I must have not stated my point clearly. I was trying to say look at the g27 and g25. They have modded it to the moon and back. Some amazing stuff has been done to them but the base product is solid. It doesn't have any basic design flaws in it. It's an off the shelf product that works great. Now if you want more from it that is where the modders come in at.

With the CSW it can be that one day as well but in the mean time it isn't there. It has a design flaw with the motors that they choose and how capable the are at delivering on what its supposed to. I agree 100% at any price point, let alone this one it should work flawlessly. Now getting more from it should be the next step.

ah yes, apparently I still agree

Kjell Eilertsen · Mar 26, 2014

Tim Meuris said:
ah yes, apparently I still agree

Pheeew, then all is well and good and we'll hopefully survive until easter at least! xD

Tim Meuris · Mar 26, 2014

Kjell Eilertsen said:
Pheeew, then all is well and good and we'll hopefully survive until easter at least! xD

who knows where we might disagree on in the future Kjell,
easter is still a few weeks away...

Leemstradamus · Mar 26, 2014

Exactly lol!

Koston82 · Mar 26, 2014

Update: still waiting on thrustmaster to get back to me but it's only been 24 hours. I'm also still waiting on my csw. It's usually next day delivery in aus. Well it has been the last 4 items I purchased.

So now comes my first complaint with fanatec. Well not really a complaint but an annoying factor. Fanatec won't send out any order untill everything is in stock, right? Then why o why o why did they separate my 3 items and send them individually.

Because of this they all got picked up at once but because they have separate con notes they are getting treated as separate item. So tracking shows I will recieve one today, one tomorrow and one Monday.

Best case scenario I get the base today and a wheel tomorrow and I can race on the weekend. Worse case I get 2 wheels and have to wait till Monday for the base.

I'm more pissed with australia post when you pay for overnight shipping and this happens but fanatec should have packaged the items together.