What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[nikh]

True dat. You don't HAVE to use them just because they're there.

My point is that you DO have to use those settings with some cars to try and make them driveable, which is really frustrating. Of course, I might just be a crap driver

 

[Dan Allen]

My point is that you DO have to use those settings with some cars to try and make them driveable, which is really frustrating. Of course, I might just be a crap driver

Oh. Well, what I do know is that you can't save setups in R3E yet, which must be doubly frustrating having to dial in your FFB settings every time you play a particular car and track combo... Or have they added that feature now?

 

[nikh]

I believe there is a wrong and a right. Grand Prix Legends was (is) a game based on 1960s GP cars. Those cars were so hard to drive that it was an achievement just getting round a corner, let alone an entire track (and 1 in 3 drivers ended up dead). This was perfectly simulated in the game. Except the death bit of course.
As a result, the game sold relatively few copies, although those that stuck with it were fanatical (and still are). GPL required several major patches to make it accessible to anyone other than hardcore simmers. I recently re-purchased the game, downloaded various patches and mods, and found it quite fun to drive; completely different from my experience in 1998 when it was first released. My point is this: Making cars as difficult to handle as they are in real life (such as the WTCC cars) can backfire, by alienating a percentage of possible customers, customers who don`t want to spend hours messing with steering ratios etc.

 

[nikh]

Oh. Well, what I do know is that you can't save setups in R3E yet, which must be doubly frustrating having to dial in your FFB settings every time you play a particular car and track combo... Or have they added that feature now?

The settings are persistant now, but I think it`s only for a particular car/track combo.

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

playing with the ratio as low as 9-10 and it almost healed it, yes you have to work at the wheel on the tight corner..

im wondering if there is something wrong with the ratios to deg. I use 540 btw.

i gave ratio12 a try.....yep. much better with adac-gt cars but really much work on the wheel. the feeling of those low ratios should be the actual representing ratio or similar. does look more natural aswell.

 

[Msportdan]

yeah I just tried the dtms 2014 as low as 9 and still felt better, the hairpin is tricky but if you get it right your no slower.!!

 

[Andi Goodwin]

I believe there is a wrong and a right. Grand Prix Legends was (is) a game based on 1960s GP cars. Those cars were so hard to drive that it was an achievement just getting round a corner, let alone an entire track (and 1 in 3 drivers ended up dead). This was perfectly simulated in the game. Except the death bit of course.
As a result, the game sold relatively few copies, although those that stuck with it were fanatical (and still are). GPL required several major patches to make it accessible to anyone other than hardcore simmers. I recently re-purchased the game, downloaded various patches and mods, and found it quite fun to drive; completely different from my experience in 1998 when it was first released. My point is this: Making cars as difficult to handle as they are in real life (such as the WTCC cars) can backfire, by alienating a percentage of possible customers, customers who don`t want to spend hours messing with steering ratios etc.

dont really agree with this , the wtcc cars arent difficult to drive , they are difficult to drive right on the limit yes , but then again any car is ; ive raced with some guys online who are good and respectful and have managed 2 wide with the guys in lots of places you wouldnt really dare ; adac 2013 are a little more difficult running close as its hard work getting the braking right in the corners when you trying to stay on the bumper of the car infront without nerfing them

but if you think you can give the wtcc cars big armfulls of movement then your going to wreck , i run 19 in the honda and track dependant 17-19 in the adac ;19 in dtm all on 540. im very careful not to rag the steering and i modulate the throttle loads , adac cars i dont use tc in and wtcc and dtm dont have it ....

Im not the fastest out there by a good way (in racing terms ) but i do try to be consistant hitting my braking spots , not smashing down through the gears ,working the brake pedal to not lock up etc ; and can be pretty consistent (best day i did a monza wtcc race and managed every lap (after lap 1) between 1:57.129 and 1:57.362 just as i said hitting the marks

so for me they are not to hard or to easy ,they are how you drive them

Andi

 

[Connor Caple]

... hitting my braking spots , not smashing down through the gears ,working the brake pedal to not lock up ...

Hey - I do the opposite of all those things as Andi is only too well aware having spent over an hour on Monza with me.

His lap times depend on the above which is why I can drive exactly the same car with the same setup as him and be three seconds slower per lap.

I know what I'm doing wrong, I'm just not quick-brained enough to correct it. With his settings and methods though, the WTCC cars do handle a lot better and increasing the Lateral Force to 130% got rid of the deadspot I had with them so it feels like I'm in control now.

I can pretty much handle the Civic at 100% brake setting, but the Cruze really bites hard on the brakes and I have to turn it down as low as 85% pressure to avoid having it pull to the right under braking as I'm getting ready to turn in.

 

[luxtpm]

personally i find the pendulum effect annoying and overdone in assetto, the race series also overdid it but not rr

 

[Dan Allen]

...I know what I'm doing wrong, I'm just not quick-brained enough to correct it. With his settings and methods though, the WTCC cars do handle a lot better and increasing the Lateral Force to 130% got rid of the deadspot I had with them so it feels like I'm in control now....

You have the same problem as me...

 

[Andi Goodwin]

@Dan Allen

you say you cant save setups , thats not actually true , you cant save multiple setups for a car track combo ; what happens is is you tweak the setup and the game autosaves what is there ,so next time you go back the set up is the samre as you left it ; personally at present as there isnt any weather or such i dont relly need multiple setups , i go in if its a quali session i might (never do actually) change the wing a tad ; or have less fuel(which isnt an option at present ) so i dont miss the multiple setup option .;.but if we get a few more setup options fuel/tyre pressures , and weather , then i can see a need

Andi

 

[nounoubleu]

Basically I agree your position. As soon as I found good set up I keep it.
But before that, I testt some things and it's good to being able to go back to previous saved set up if it doesn't work. Here, I'm obliged to write all on a paper.
On the other hand, people who always cry for realism can't complain about it
In real life, cars don't have set ups in memory (so far). It's in engineer's notebook

 

[Andi Goodwin]

im to lazy to write it down screenshot FTW

Andi

 

[Dan Allen]

@Dan Allen

you say you cant save setups , thats not actually true , you cant save multiple setups for a car track combo ; what happens is is you tweak the setup and the game autosaves what is there ,so next time you go back the set up is the samre as you left it ; personally at present as there isnt any weather or such i dont relly need multiple setups , i go in if its a quali session i might (never do actually) change the wing a tad ; or have less fuel(which isnt an option at present ) so i dont miss the multiple setup option .;.but if we get a few more setup options fuel/tyre pressures , and weather , then i can see a need

Andi

Really? I haven't noticed.

 

[Le_Poilu]

Really? I haven't noticed.

Indeed, it is

But I've seen some inconsistency here.
While in DTM Exp 2014 if I do a training session, make my car setup... then go to the championship , the setup I did in training is not here (same car, same track). Have to redo it.
But once it's done once in championship, next time I'll run the same combo the setup is here.

 

[Msportdan]

still for me lowering the steering ration 9-10 helps this anomaly the most..

 

[Kurupt CDN]

Personally I think the base 540 with 20 steering lock and stock ffb settings are way too much for most wheels to handle. On my tx it just feels like a heavy tight spring which drowns out alot of subtle effects. My personal preference is 900 ingame with a 22-25 steering lock the wheel doesn't feel so tightly wound and the cars react more naturally when entering/exiting turns.
I am pretty positive but could be wrong that when a clipping tool appears we will realize the stock wheel settings are clipping. I only say this because all the games that do have a tool available the strength I have to set my wheel to is easily half the strength of RRE .

 

[Msportdan]

to get the wttc to feel anything like the marcas in gsc I had to use 10 ratio

 

[David Wright]

I believe there is a wrong and a right. Grand Prix Legends was (is) a game based on 1960s GP cars. Those cars were so hard to drive that it was an achievement just getting round a corner, let alone an entire track (and 1 in 3 drivers ended up dead). This was perfectly simulated in the game.

I'm sorry but this is rubbish. In 1967 F1 drivers normally raced for two hours without going off the track once. What made the era dangerous was not that the cars were hard to drive but if you did make a mistake, someone dumped oil on the track or something broke, you often hit a tree or a house in a car without any basic safety features - not even safety belts.

 

[Connor Caple]

I've been running 540/19 as Andi advised the other day. It works well once you get used to it, but it feels like it's trying to rip your arms off when you first try it.

I also switched my Sequential shifter on, rather than using the paddles. The G25 sequential is 'okay', but I feel an upgraded shifter in my future as it feels a bit flimsy and rattly. I wanted to get some practice in for downshifting properly, because I don't, and that makes the car misbehave more in R3E than in Race 07.

I went racing online again earlier and tried the Hungaroring. Had fun in the race, but a guy in front of me seemed to be able to brake a lot harder than I was, which probably meant I locked up (the bad downshifts) and he didn't, resulting in me rear ending him and waiting at the first corner while he drove off again. Had fun chasing him down, but after I finally passed him and started pulling away for a lap, he quit.

Looking forward to some organised (and private!) RD racing so we can have some real fun.