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Weather on demand :)

Discussion in 'Presto GP' started by Nicolai Nicholson, May 7, 2012.

  1. If we are to "order" weather for a round from Daniel I think we have to make up our minds quickly.

    First of all, are everybody ok with this? If you do not like the idea, please write a post.

    Second of all, what round should we pick, next at Barcelona or last race at Monaco? (I would vote for Barcelona, but it doesn't really matter to me, it is mainly because I am impasient :) )

    Finally, how should we word our request to Daniel? I suggest the following:
    -The race must be affected by wet conditions. The other sessions may be affected by wet conditions. Wet conditions are defined as at least 2 minutes of at least 30% on-path wetness.

    If you wonder how I came up with that minimum (above 30% at least 2 minutes) I thought that it was very roughly the minimum event that would send people to the pits for tyre change.

    The reason why I wish to use that minimum when "ordering the weather" is that I wish for us to know as little as possible about the weather and give Daniel a maximum of room to work his creativity (or whatever skill he applies in the creation of the weather).
    • Like Like x 1
  2. David Turnbull

    David Turnbull
    PrestoGP Veteran

    i dont agree with this, theres nothing random about choosing what weather we'll have, this is like a bernie ecclestone idea.

    id rather go in to a race not knowing what will happen, if its wet fair enough if its dry thats fine too but the uncertainty of it makes it exciting.

    EDIT: im all for some wet races thats not my problem, my problem is that id rather not know anything about it, with doing it this way we'll know what races are wet and what arent even if its still daniels decision as to overall wetness it still takes away the excitment of the unknown.
    • Like Like x 6
  3. I personally would like to have a wet race for Barcelona, I still havent driven a wet race yet :)
    If we agree to have that kind of race I would suggest that Daniel just comes up with something where wet tires are needed at least once in the race and thats it, I think that would be simple and there would still be an x-factor when and how long it rains.
    Daniel is a creative person he will think of something fun :D
    • Like Like x 1
  4. I just wanna say that any of the above mentioned ideas are fine with me :)
    • Like Like x 5
  5. I agree with David. Personally, I don't really like the idea of knowing with any certainty [apart from forecasts] that the next race is going to be a "rain affected" and as such I should practice and setup my car with this in mind; limited as my prep time is....

    But whatever is decided is fine by me. I will do my best on the day.... :)

    Thank you Nico and Daniel :)
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    With a typical setup for me, which usually has more rear-wing than most, I am always happy if there will be a little wet. A super idea :)
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Reik Major

    Reik Major

    It's interesting to see how different opinions can be about this.

    If I'm honest with myself I finally tend to agree more with David and Peter. But I'm also one of those who are thursty for a race, where the impact of weather reaches a level so you have to make at least one unscheduled stop to change to inters or wets or back to slicks. So I'm very torn on this subject.

    Considering the fact, that we (at least many of us) wait for such a race to happen by luck over many seasons now, I'd exceptionally "soften" my general claim for uncertainty and vote for Nicos idea.

    As a compromise my suggestion would be to say: "We want to have at least one rain affected race within the last two events with at least one major change of rain intensity."

    In my imagination this definition would leave sooooo much room for Daniels creativity and soooo many scenarios, so we still safe a high amount of uncertainty.

    I agree with that point. I just like to mention that even some of the last "rain promising" forecasts encouraged some people to practice for a rain setup. Remember Anthony at Sepang. He's definitely one of those with very less preparation time but he made his own gamble to eventually have an advantage if it would have rained most of the time. Finally it didn't.

    The same could happen during the last two races even if we exceptionally give Daniel a slight advice. For example it could rain a very short time. So the wish for having a rain affected race would have come true but a driver who gambled to prepare more for rain wouldn't automatically have an advantage.

    And my suggestion to include both upcomming events would increase the level of uncertainty again, because after a rain affected race at Barcelona it could also happen at Monaco...

    But as always I'm fine with any decision because until now it always has been a great challenge! :)
    • Like Like x 6
  8. +1

    I'm good with tinroofers in the rain, just because i'm overtly safe (read = wuss) driver and pickup places when others are spinning. It would be nice to have a chance to see what the rain feels with F1... But as i very well know, finding the limits of rain with such a powerful car that has very narrow margins is a nightmare for weather prophet. Intensity needs to be off by just few percents to make the whole thing in to a circus.
  9. +2
  10. Fascinating... a brief look at the above post it seems to me like:
    Reik, Valter, Kennett, Jonas and myself are for changing the weather while David T, Peter, Marko and Kurt are against (if I am to interpret "likes". Andy seems to like both sides :)

    Obviously, when the likes of Tim and Anthony sees this thread there will be more votes for rain, but I do not think this is a vote where we need 51% to tip the scale, such a controversial suggestion in the middle of the season would be easier to implement with close to 100% concensius.

    Alternatively we can ask Daniel for his thoughts on why there have been so few races with rain. Have we just been "unlucky" or is the average chance for rain in race lower than we think? With some information around this we can (if needed) adjust some parameters for the future.

    I want to make one more point to the original discussion here, and that is that my desire for ordering rain is based on the fear that it could be that we are nearing the end of Presto GP as we know it, and we might not get to experience a wet race at all. The reason for my dark prediction is that since we moved to Race Department and the f1-mod (from NoGrip and the in-game f3000) we have become fewer and fewer each season, and I see no reason why this would change in the future. We are now down to 20 participants, the lowest number since we started up. Last race there were only 15 drivers, for various reasons.

    If you want an illustration of the problem, look at the member list:
    -16 of 20 have been with us since the days of f3000 (counting B Luneski who was in the Pacific series)
    -Reik is the only guy that have joined us post f3000 and have "made roots"
    The last three, Marko, Jonas and Kennett are relatively new and we obviously hope they will stay for many more seasons. I am however slightly worried about the motivation of Jonas and Kennett (no insult intended, and I know motivation is also controlled by time, the less time one have to spare the more fun the racing have to be to prioritise it. Take Anthony, he is running a restaurant and have a wife and a bunch of kids, he must find racing very enjoyable to find time for it).
    • Like Like x 3
  11. No insult taken, my schedule lately hasn't been entirely in my control. The normal routine has been interrupted with friends popping in at any time of day and then staying until it's midnight. I've enjoyed the company, i'm naturally a hermit and the last half a year there's been whole months spent where i've seen a living person in the counter of the nearest grocery 10 minutes before it closes. Also i've got my sleeping pattern tuned more to the local times and not to UK time... It just takes time for me to find a new routine where i need to practice during the day because evenings can be occupied by others in moments notice. I got so used to sleeping in the afternoon, making the breakfast last for hours, checking forums, downloading the latest series and watching them and after that, practicing. It was good for the state of mind, i was very relaxed and could get more out of it. Now that i'm not in such a good mood during the day, the practicing is way harder. Frustrations kick in easier and i might feel angry the rest of the day.

    I wouldn't raise any complaints if the F3000 was to be used in the future nor shall i complain if the MAK mod is to be used in some form of another. I'm easily stoked, very "noisy" from the beginning, that's been the case in every league so far. After the initial misunderstanding was cleared, i've been very happy here. I like the people, i like the system and politics, very friendly and democratic. A nice change from what i've witnessed before, where everything's set in stone even when things are not working... The bar is high ATM, that could be one the reasons why there's no new participants.. Hell, before i even thought of joining, i knew that PrestoGP is one of the hardest leagues in Race series.

    I tried to get new members and the only one i got interested, was an #¤¤hole. I stopped there, the rest of SRS is strictly GT racers amd we are shutting our servers down in three weeks, not enough users. The userbase is shrinking every day, even RD has problems of getting people to join in, club races has been a dying format and that's the most casual one. The HC fans stay on but i have to say, the less we have drivers, the better they are... The middleground is vanishing, noobs and Skidrows are filling up the casual side and the strongest players are keeping the leagues running.. Many has questioned why i even bother anymore, not one win in league racing in three years, not even a podium... Few top8 finishes with respectable grid, mostly running in the last three places, lapped by others in midrace. It's not always easy to find motivation for practice.. A note: i'm a musician, pretty good one too so i'm used to practice for hours, quick learning skills so i've been puzzled why i've made no progress, doubts are kicking in from time to time, maybe i just don't have any talent at all. Of course i could always go to publics, destroy opposition there, finishing in the top three if i care enough or if the first lap/first turn doesn't kill me first. It would be the equivalent of me picking up a guitar and getting ovations from the crowd who are all tonedeaf...

    And when do i learn to say things in a more compact way.....
    • Like Like x 5
  12. I am "in favor" of wet or rain affected races; just maybe not made to order or by concensus. Weather is not democratic. J :) However, it really doesn't bother me if we turn on Bernie's Sprinklers for a race or two....

    Long live Presto GP!!! :cool:
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Good morning.
    Thank you Nico for this rain request and Sorry for Beeing late , I was so busy with work .

    I believe most of us want to see at least one wet race during the season just to add something diferent and a bit more fun to the races , and I am with David T to have the race as a surprise and not ask directly for rain but as we had many dry surprises for the last 11 races ? Or so and the season is ending so it won't kill the fun to ask Daniel to rise the possibility for rain and I am sure it will get all of us in a surprise in the race as we won't know when and how strong the rain until it happened.

    Thank you Reik , your post explains exactly what I think.

    Sorry I need to run to work , I will read the rest later.

    It is a great league with the Best members and best Admin so Let's have some fun :)
    • Like Like x 4
  14. Valter Ostman

    Valter Ostman
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Let us just pray to our weather god Daniel "Thor" Hansson and see if it helps :) I heard somewhere that god doesn't help those who aren't trying to to help themselves. Could it be any truth in that? I can't see anything wrong with a little magical data manipulation in the weather file from time to time. Let's give "Thor" mandate to create the weather he feels like. But anyhow, a nice sunny weather, thunderstorm and everything in between. It doesn't destroy the fun, whatever it turns out to be.

    PrestoGP forever!

    Edit: I apologize for having involved god in my reasoning. I hope you will forgive an ignorant barbarian for the mistake.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Tim McIver

    Tim McIver
    PrestoGP Veteran

    I've been away, now I'm backand I'm about to write my thorough contribution and paste it here! (okay I forgot to paste)
  16. Tim McIver

    Tim McIver
    PrestoGP Veteran

    I throw my 2 cents worth in...

    I think the discussion here is about a single race, not a new system. I'm in favour of us having a wet forecast for Barcelona. I agree with David that we don't want to know ahead of time exactly what the weather will be. I just think that what we're talking about isn't actually going to mean we know any more than we normally would. We could simply decide that the 1 week forecast is right down the wet end of the spectrum then let Daniel crunch the numbers as he normally does. I'm happy for it to be possible that there's no rain but with a very wet forecast one would presume we should get some rain. This is actually how it works in real F1. You have a very good idea on Friday and Saturday weather it will be a rain effected race. In some instances there is great confidence that there will be rain. I want us to have one of those weekends, Sepang style.

    I think our current weather system is very good, almost ideal. Daniels service is much appreciated. I do however think that it would be good for us to know how the maths works and all have a say on it at the start of the season. I’m really happy for the forecasts to contain only ambiguous phrases and no numbers or percentages, but preseason I would like to know that there is a chance of it raining twice during a race. There’s a chance of it starting to rain then stopping. There’s a chance of the rain easing then getting harder again. It is possible that Daniel is already implementing these ideas and the maths has just bizarrely given us an incredibly dry season. I think it would be a good thing for us to work out together preseason before handing the implementation over to Daniel (assuming he is willing and keen to continue as the weather man). I suspect such a system is a bit more complicated and we shouldn’t expect Daniel to have to calculate all himself. It wouldn’t be too hard to whip up a spreadsheet that, after a few dice rolls, could produce the weather outline.

    All that seems like a lot of effort. I think it would be worth it, not because it would require more practice but hopefully because it would reward less. In a wet race, not one of us has practiced a stint at the grip levels that happen in the race. We can have wet practice servers, but in the race wetness changes with time, grip levels need to be explored. That’s racing.

    On the second issue of changes to the mod...
    I appreciate the amount of work Kennett is putting into various projects related to the mod. I do however agree with Nico that further isolating ourselves would be an error. But even more than that, if Presto is to survive (and it is!!) then I presume that it won’t be long til we switch to a different sim. I’ve said before that Rfactor2 was my great hope. It’s certainly not ready for next season and who knows whether it will be right for the one after, but I suspect it will. That said, there are quite a few sims out there that have good open wheel mods. We will have to do some thinking about it together during next season, or perhaps even between seasons (though I think we should stick with this mod for at least one more). I don’t think going back to the F3000 is the answer.
    @nico. Do you really think the decline in numbers is because of the switch to the mod and RD or just because of the age of the sim itself?

    Thanks for listening.

    • Like Like x 3
  17. Valerio Vinassa

    Valerio Vinassa
    PrestoGP Veteran

    Im agree with David I dont like know before the weather and like say Valter... Let's give "Thor" mandate to create the weather he feels like. one thing is more chance of rain say rain not hurricane:p I not have many problem to switch on another mod sure F1 is bettter then F3000;) but at last one things that i found in the "Band of PrestoGP" is friendship and respect the better thing.

    PS. +1 Peter
    Long live Presto GP!!! :cool:
    • Like Like x 4
  18. I've come home late from school, so I'm skipping the weather for tonight and give us some more time to decide what we're going to have.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. It is hard to conclude with anything here, but I think the key words are:
    -We want the uncertainty
    -We hope for rain
    -You can do whatever you see fit (don't feel you have to honer earlier agreed numbers or anything, you are the almighty weather man).

    Personally I will prepare for dry and hope for wet/changing conditions :)

    I guess this topic is quite complex and deserves it's own thread. The fact that the platform is getting older I guess affects the total amount of people using it, but I do not know if there are much fewer people using SimBin today then there was a couple of years ago. And even though it is, I think there must be more than enough of the right people out there, they just need to find us.

    I think there are two major ways for the right people to find us, it is through browsing Race Department and through finding us on the server list ingame.

    If one go to Race Department looking for an f1 league, one do not find us easily. I would guess the normal thing would be to click on "online racing" ->"leagues". If one do this there is no logic way to find us. To find us one must go via forum, race07 and then leagues. (This is not complaining, just analysing :) )

    As for finding us on the ingame server list, one must already have the MMG-mod installed to be able to join our servers. Obviously a small % of SimBin users have this installed and will never consider our servers.
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Reik Major

    Reik Major

    Yeah, in this case I exceptionally trust in god - our weather god! :)

    (no offence to any religious guys here and anywhere :))