We need to talk about Max Verstappen

[Deleted member 130869]

Max is getting the early career treatment that Lewis and Vettel got but not to such extent, with the FIA looking away. It's inexcusable for him to have his double moves go without warning. Racing can be close and exciting without those tactics. Vettel twice this year ran wide or too tight on a corner affecting other guys, no criticism given to him.

 

[AndrewBo]

Well, if Max would read all this, he would do *seespoiler*, because he doesn't care what others think of him. That is part of being the baddest badass out there.
He is a one in hundred years talent ( Quote from Niki Lauda) . That is how they are. ---->

Spoiler: :)

I've always believed that you should never, ever give up and you should always keep fighting even when there's only a slightest chance. Michael Schumacher

 

[Mark Aalberts]

Have I missed it but people keep saying Max said he would rather drive the others off the track but I never heard him say that. Are people making this up?

Yes he said this straight after the race for the Dutch tv but you shouldn't translate it literally but need to put it in context. He basically meant that he is not going to give his opponents an easy pass and well that's what we see this year. But of course it will be media frenzy now.

 

[Yapci]

Are they going to put him back to toro rosso? I mean...he is going little kvyat crazy mode with more luck isn't him?

Maybe it's better to penalize him before someone gets hurt. We all know he has great talent and is one of a kind but...we all saw what happened with Simoncelli in motoGP. A good driver going over the limit too many times...not optimistic about how that would end.

And it's not fair that other drivers have to let him ahead because he is just doing unsafe movements and its that or crashing (this is not iracing little boy).

 

[Appie Kuipers]

If F1 is only overtaking by drs, give me the WTCC drivers.
Rai is crying on the radio, his attemps to overtake are to late!
He is frustrated he can't overtake Max, his problem not Max 's.
Some F1 drivers are spoiled kids.

 

[the_sigman]

Maybe it's better to penalize him before someone gets hurt. We all know he has great talent and is one of a kind but...we all saw what happened with Simoncelli in motoGP. A good driver going over the limit too many times...not optimistic about how that would end.

That is a completely different case. Marco had calmed down from Barcelona onwards and by Brno he had found the balance between speed and risk. His accident had nothing to do with risky riding too, pure bad luck only.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Well, to my opinion, the crash in the first corner was a racing accident. Max goes for a gap which absolutely existed.

To quote a famous driver:

"Being a racing driver means you are racing with other people and if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing."

Then the overtaking by Raikkonen, which was blocked. If Raikkonen would have made the move earlier he also had the chance to go to the left.
I have the feeling Raikkonen has lost the edge a bit, and many fans as well with all stupid drs overtakes. F1 is no driving for little girls. What we have seen in the 80's is so opposed to what were seeing between 2008-2015.

Then the stuff that happened at Les Combes. That's what you get when real racing is back. Purely on the limit, and sometimes a bit over it. No easy overtakes.

To my opinion f1 was completely in a dull with all drs overtakes. Especially Raikkonen has become a pure crybaby because now he has to race on the edge again to pass someone. Something he had forgotten since about 2011..

Also Max maybe doesn't respect the old guys, but I'm pretty sure the great ones of the past did neither.
Schumacher did not
Senna did not
Prost did not
Hamilton did not

You have one goal you want to reach, become world champion. The only way to do that is being selfish. Not handing a position to someone else because that's nice behaviour.
That's at least one reason why Barrichello has never become champion in the best cars. He was too nice.
And is the same reason why Rosberg won't become champion this year. Less talent, but also too nice for their teammates, not sneaky enough when they do something which is not allowed. Hamilton has gotten away with that a couple of times already

 

[Martin Maaskant]

Boby Kim you know that the media is always willing to stir things up a bit.

 

[Martin Maaskant]

Well, to my opinion, the crash in the first corner was a racing accident. Max goes for a gap which absolutely existed.

To quote a famous driver:

Then the overtaking by Raikkonen, which was blocked. If Raikkonen would have made the move earlier he also had the chance to go to the left.
I have the feeling Raikkonen has lost the edge a bit, and many fans as well with all stupid drs overtakes. F1 is no driving for little girls. What we have seen in the 80's is so opposed to what were seeing between 2008-2015.

Then the stuff that happened at Les Combes. That's what you get when real racing is back. Purely on the limit, and sometimes a bit over it. No easy overtakes.

To my opinion f1 was completely in a dull with all drs overtakes. Especially Raikkonen has become a pure crybaby because now he has to race on the edge again to pass someone. Something he had forgotten since about 2011..

Also Max maybe doesn't respect the old guys, but I'm pretty sure the great ones of the past did neither.
Schumacher did not
Senna did not
Prost did not
Hamilton did not

You have one goal you want to reach, become world champion. The only way to do that is being selfish. Not handing a position to someone else because that's nice behaviour.
That's at least one reason why Barrichello has never become champion. He was too nice.

You won't get world champion by playing nice and by making friends. Vettel didn't do that for sure. Ask Mark Webber about that.

 

[the_sigman]

@Johan Top

Being a racing driver means you are racing with other people and if you no longer go for a gap that exists you are no longer a racing driver because we are competing."

The funny thing is that Senna told that quote to defend himself after the accident in Suzuka 1990. Yes, the same accident he later admitted he caused on purpose.

 

[the_sigman]

You won't get world champion by playing nice and by making friends. Vettel didn't do that for sure. Ask Mark Webber about that.

Sorry, but Vettel never drove in a dangerous manner for everyone around him.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

F1 has been very boring for years. Yes whe have Mad Max.

 

[GAIAjohan]

@Johan Top

The funny thing is that Senna told that quote to defend himself after the accident in Suzuka 1990. Yes, the same accident he later admitted he caused on purpose.

Not exactly that. That's what some f1 sites and some others made out of it by using a short part of the full discussion between Stewart and Senna. Also that interview was not from just that accident in Suzuka, but in general.

Stewart asked Senna why he hit so many other cars compared to others

Here is what Stewart is asking:

“If I were to count back all of the world champions, after all this the 500th grand prix, that if you totaled up all of those great champions, the number of times they had made contact with other drivers, that you in the last 36 months or 48 months, have been in contact with more other cars and drivers than they might have done in total.”

Senna's reply

“I find amazing for you to make such a question Stewart, because you are very experienced and you know a lot about racing. And you should know that by being a racing driver you are at the risk all the time. By being a racing driver means you are racing with other people. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver. Because we are competing, we are competing to win. And the main motivation to all of us is to compete for victory. Is not to come 3rd 4th 5th or 6th.”

Senna is not responding to just that accident in Suzuka, he is responding on all his accidents..
So he was not defending only that accident in Suzuka, but all of his accidents.

Many people don't seem to grasp the full question Jackie Stewart asks, but only the moment when it was asked.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Sorry, but Vettel never drove in a dangerous manner for everyone around him.

Easy to debunk

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Sorry but you are wrong. The "or" points to the slow driving before the comma. You cant drive unnecessarily slow, you cant drive slow and erraticaly or you cant drive slow an cause danger to others. Just like "any such car" points back to the slow driving car. The whole article is about slow driving cars. But to you only the part about causing danger isnt and that is wrong.

Nope. You can choose to drive LMP1, LMP2 or GT (random from a club race at RD). That means, you may drive an LMP1. You may drive LMP2. You may drive GT.

There is no point in saying "you cannot drive slow and erratic" and "you cannot drive slow and dangerous" (erratic is dangerous - thus one of them are obsolete). Also, when the first say "you cannot drive unnecessarily slow", you don't need to mention erratic and/or dangerous, as it is already covered with "slow". And again, with the LMP1, LMP2 or GT example, they are separate.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Nope. You can choose to drive LMP1, LMP2 or GT (random from a club race at RD). That means, you may drive an LMP1. You may drive LMP2. You may drive GT.

There is no point in saying "you cannot drive slow and erratic" and "you cannot drive slow and dangerous" (erratic is dangerous - thus one of them are obsolete). Also, when the first say "you cannot drive unnecessarily slow", you don't need to mention erratic and/or dangerous, as it is already covered with "slow". And again, with the LMP1, LMP2 or GT example, they are separate.

If erratic means dangerous according to your dictionary, you must have an other one than I have.

You are not allowed to drive too slow, not allowed to drive irregular/inconsistent lines OR drive dangerously.

Hmm, let's have a look.
Verstappen did not drive slow
He did not drive irregular or inconsistent to what could be expected from a racing driver defending his like. And dangerously, I think Raikkonen could've expected that move as well if he didn't feel asleep with all the drs overtaking the last couple of years.

And if the stewards thought it was allowed, it probably was allowed. Can't make more of it.


If you would put the average guy in an average car on the track without any other cars around they would probably drive pretty erratically, but would it be dangerous? Don't think so.

 

[kedy89]

Verstappen fanboys abandoning all reason to defend their beloved. Wonder how they would've reacted if someone had pulled that one on him.

No matter what, you simply can't pull over to defend (or rather block in this case) after your opponent has already chosen the side, especially not at such a high speed and with such short distance between the cars. I dare say had he pulled that on a less experienced driver, we would've seen a massive crash. Not to speak of his driving in lap 1 with damaged front wing.
If he keeps going at this rate, it's not a matter of if something happens, but when.

 

[Frank]

I am a Kimi fanboy myself, but I think Verstappen's move was fine, he moved once and Kimi should have expected it. As for T1, Verstappen's placement wasn't the best, but Vettel was just being Vettel. Without Verstappen there, it would have been a pretty big chance they would have hit anyway, just look at the angle Vettel turns in .

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Did see the replay of the start severall times, more drivers drove the same inside line max did, Vettel caused all the mess in the first corner.
Vettel blocks his own team mate, period!

 

[the_sigman]

Did see the replay of the start severall times, more drivers drove the same inside line max did, Vettel caused all the mess in the first corner.
Vettel blocks his own team mate, period!

Yes, move on from thart. Mostly a racing accident, both at fault as most think. But thats not the issue. Its the high speed blocks and the "you hurt my race, im gonna hurt yours. A logic that only applies if you are a NASCAR driver.