We need to talk about Max Verstappen

[GAIAjohan]

Yes, move on from thart. Mostly a racing accident, both at fault as most think. But thats not the issue. Its the high speed blocks and the "you hurt my race, im gonna hurt yours. A logic that only applies if you are a NASCAR driver.

Real emotions... Rarely seen since the introduction of PR managers in the mid90's.. only Villeneuve, Montoya and Irvine come to mind when I'm thinking about people who always showed their emotions and didn't talk as taught in pr lessons.

A thought or emotional outbreak are just words, no actions..

 

[Frank]

Yes, move on from thart. Mostly a racing accident, both at fault as most think. But thats not the issue. Its the high speed blocks and the "you hurt my race, im gonna hurt yours. A logic that only applies if you are a NASCAR driver.

I think that is taken a bit out of context and meant in a different way, I would say you don't speak Dutch and only read translations.

 

[the_sigman]

Real emotions... Rarely seen since the introduction of PR managers in the mid90's.. only Villeneuve, Montoya and Irvine come to mind when I'm thinking about people who always showed their emotions and didn't talk as taught in pr lessons.

A thought or emotional outbreak are just words, no actions..

These 3 never acted unsportingly because they thought others ruined their races. But if you want Verstappen to become like Villeneuve (the man that impressed in his first three years and then became a backmarker to earn money), Montoya (the most overrated driver in modern F1, inconsistent and not thinking at all) and Irvine (the man who had one good season and that was because Schumi was injured), then...

I think that is taken a bit out of context and meant in a different way, I would say you don't speak Dutch and only read translations.

I read it from the biggest F1 sites (search Vettel and Raikkonen should be ashamed) and also heard it from his post-race interviews at NBCSN and Sky Sports, which is enough to see his thinking.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

If erratic means dangerous according to your dictionary, you must have an other one than I have.
And dangerously, I think Raikkonen could've expected that move as well if he didn't feel asleep with all the drs overtaking the last couple of years.

And if the stewards thought it was allowed, it probably was allowed. Can't make more of it.

Erratic =/= dangerous - again, it is two different points in the rule. You are not allowed to drive erraticaly. You are not allowed to drive in any way that can be potentially dangerous. I'm starting to feel that you try to misinterpret what I say on purpose here.

It is potentially dangerous to move in reaction to, in that way, at that speed. It's been showed multiple times in this thread alone, what can happen when such things occur.

The stewards didn't do a thing in this race. Verstappen v Raikkonen at Les Combes and Verstappen v Perez at Les Combes was similar situations, two different outcomes, and not one single investigation. Either there was a pass outside the track, or someone got forced off... It's somewhat idiotic that none of it was investigated.
Again, this are the same stewards that are not able to enforce track limits, speed under yellows etc. And we know how the yellow flag situation ended.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Haha, those 3 never acted unsportingly?
Seriously? Especially Irvine was a good one at that. Also Irvine wasn't that bad at all in his first years.
Then Montoya, high hopes but he was completely delusioned. I don't think he was overrated, he was just at the wrong time in f1..
And Villeneuve, yeah well.. champion in 98 because he had the best car.. after that nothing but all for the money. but Hill also went to arrows, right..

And then, you cannot translate all things. Ways of saying things can differ.
If an Englishman says you did a fantastic job, he might be trolling you.
Swearing and words you use when you're mad is also very country dependent. One thing might sound much worse in one language than another. If you use the f word in England or the USA people are embarrassed. In the Netherlands nobody cares. While in other cases it might be the other way around. That we do care what is being said, while you don't care at all.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Erratic =/= dangerous - again, it is two different points in the rule. You are not allowed to drive erraticaly. You are not allowed to drive in any way that can be potentially dangerous. I'm starting to feel that you try to misinterpret what I say on purpose here.

It is potentially dangerous to move in reaction to, in that way, at that speed. It's been showed multiple times in this thread alone, what can happen when such things occur.

The stewards didn't do a thing in this race. Verstappen v Raikkonen at Les Combes and Verstappen v Perez at Les Combes was similar situations, two different outcomes, and not one single investigation. Either there was a pass outside the track, or someone got forced off... It's somewhat idiotic that none of it was investigated.
Again, this are the same stewards that are not able to enforce track limits, speed under yellows etc. And we know how the yellow flag situation ended.

I think you didn't read what I wrote. Since I'm not Jeff right. Also since you only quoted a small part of it, you apparently didn't read.
And I also said in fact it were three points.
Read back!

Heck, I'll even quote myself to prove

1You are not allowed to drive too slow, 2not allowed to drive irregular/inconsistent lines 3OR drive dangerously.

That's 3 different things you're not allowed to do. What I wanted to say, you sais earlier that erratically was dangerous, while I said it does not have to be.

Then, what is dangerous in racing? Imho driving a defending line which absolutely can be expected is not dangerous. It's part of racing, and it has always been.
In this case it was one move. About Hungary I'm not fully on the Max side.
At Les Combes, they were not the brightest moves, but still it is what happens in close racing when there is too much run off area..

They should return to the old gravel traps. And black flag someone who pushes another guy in.
Not only Verstappen would have a problem then, buy also Rosberg, Hamilton, Raikkonen and more.

 

[AadHofman]

This is just what F1 needs: a mentally deranged teenager, who thinks he is Ayrton Senna reincarnated.

 

[Reb.Ellion]

well said

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Imho driving a defending line which absolutely can be expected is not dangerous. It's part of racing, and it has always been

Oh dear, you're not serious are you. The guy forced Raikkonen to slow down to avoid a heavy 200+ mph crash which could have injured someone.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Oh dear, you're not serious are you. The guy forced Raikkonen to slow down to avoid a heavy 200+ mph crash which could have injured someone.

If you're afraid of injuries or anything you shouldn't race.. that's part of the risk. Just like cyclists can fall on the road, just like hockey players can get a hard ball in the face and lose some teeth.

And heck, sometimes I'm also forced to brake hard on the motorway because a truck suddenly decided to drive on the left lane. That's also a speed difference of 50kmh or more when driving in Germany (80 vs 130), and also add to that, that my average car is much less safe than an f1 car.

Yes, when you're attacking or overtaking you sometimes have to brake, especially if you make the first move too late, like Raikkonen did. That has always been part of racing.
Senna would have defended the same as can be seen on old footage.

Verstappen made the defending move, but he could make that one move so late because Kimi was too late with his first move. And then Kimi had to brake because there was no space.. sometimes if someone closes the door in a corner the attacker also had to brake. Is that dangerous? Don't think so. It's part of racing to close a door.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

If you're afraid of injuries or anything you shouldn't race.. that's part of the risk. Just like cyclists can fall on the road, just like hockey players can get a hard ball in the face and lose some teeth.

So you think he should defend in a way which could cause harm?

 

[Geert de Vries]

For all you Schumi fans and Verstappen Haters

That said he should not defend like that, just give some extra room but keep making it difficult. The 1st corner incident wasn't Max's fault, though you could say it was a corner cutting. BUT that's because Vettel decided to **** Kimi up.

Max is a great driver IMO, just has much to learn. There were 80.000 Dutch fans just for him that day, that makes a great impact on a 18 year old. Imagine 80.000 people were watching you sitting behind your desk or in your playseat while your keep pressing the flashback button :')
I know that doesn't give him the right to block kimi like that, but it is a factor.

He made the sport alive again, even in those shitty V6's. I'd imagine Sainz, or any rookie driver doing the same stupid ****.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

For all you Schumi fans and Verstappen Haters

And what's your point? Schumi forced someone out of room and Max did something similar by forcing Raikkonen to slow down. Just because someone else has done something wrong in the past doesn't make it OK for someone else to do it again. Plus, Max was doing this out of revenge which is worse.

 

[Geert de Vries]

Did he do it out of revenge? Please state where and when.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Did he do it out of revenge? Please state where and when.

He was angry about turn one, so proceeded to defend in a aggressive and dangerous manner deliberately.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

I'll also put this quote from Max as well

 

[Geert de Vries]

View attachment 150412

He was angry about turn one, so proceeded to defend in a aggressive and dangerous manner deliberately.

Why do you think it's a bad thing. The stewards didn't mind either. I'm not backing Verstappen, just like to know your opinion. ^^

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Why do you think it's a bad thing. The stewards didn't mind either. I'm not backing Verstappen, just like to know your opinion. ^^

I think it's a bad thing because it's the wrong attitude to have when driving. Max went out of his way to put someone in a dangerous position, which could have caused serious injury. It just makes him look hot headed and that is never the way to go. It's not even the first time he's become hot headed and angry in the car as well.

 

[Geert de Vries]

I think it's a bad thing because it's the wrong attitude to have when driving. Max went out of his way to put someone in a dangerous position, which could have caused serious injury. It just makes him look hot headed and that is never the way to go. It's not even the first time he's become hot headed and angry in the car as well.

Hungary was fully in his right though. It's not in the rules to change your position while braking.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Hungary was fully in his right though. It's not in the rules to change your position while braking.

I wasn't really talking about Hungary. In Hungary I think he was starting to get to a point where he could have caused a crash, but nothing compared to what he did in Belgium. I was talking about Australia, when he just got frustrated and angry and ran into the back of Sainz