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Using H-shifter + Manual Clutch with All Cars

Discussion in 'RACE 07 - Official WTCC Game' started by Mike Coleman, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. After almost exclusively driving with the sequential shifter and auto clutch since I started sim racing, I recently forced myself to learn the H-shift and manual clutch.

    It's like I've re-discovered sim racing! :dance2:

    It's a whole new driving experience. You have so much more control over the cars and you can really feel each car's "personality". Even though I have driven all these cars countless times, I never really knew them. Now I feel like I am really learning them. Almost as if I'm driving them for the first time.

    And perhaps most important, I can finish more races now lol :laugh2:

    I don't think I'll ever go back to sequential shifting.
     


  2. When I got my G25, I too used the manual clutch; I used it for about three or four weeks and by the end of it I was doing my old times of "flight yoke" virtual driving.


    Four interesting facts:

    1. It is accepted that the "auto-clutch" off option is theoretically the fastest way around.
    2. There is at least one "alien" that proves this, as he doesn't use "auto-clutch".
    3. Without auto-clutch the differential settings become more important.
    4. It is obviously a more "real" approach to virtual driving.

    Taking into account that I'm always referring to downshifting (as in up shifting all goes in), here is my experience (online racing) and a sort of why I started using "auto-clutch":


    1. The WTCC class... if you drive with these, you will see that in this simulator, there is little difference (or none) between direct shifting and shifting. Ok maybe in the 5 speed BMW you will notice a difference.
    2. With powerful RWD cars, in long distance races (endurance), above 60 mins and such, it becomes too easy (when one is getting tired), to do an error while going down the gearbox very fast (hard braking) and one has to brake, clutch, shift down and even accelerate at the same time.

    So I basically got tired of doing "last lap" rear differential lock-ups while my fellow virtual racers with auto-clutch had no such problems (at least on that quantity).


    Nowadays, I use the auto-clutch option, but what I do is that I use the clutch all the same (over the auto) if I'm in the mood for that, specially when going up the gear box to keep the rpm up while shifting (aka burning the clutch).

    Well, I hope that adds something… ;)
     
  3. For upshifts, I don't use the clutch unless I need some stability.

    For downshifts, especially while braking, I find the manual clutch to be invaluable now. I get much better braking modulation with the clutch engaged.

    I know I can leave it on auto and use the manual clutch on top of it, but with my personality, I will use the "auto" part too much ;)
     
  4. i have auto clutch turned off on gtr evo and still it is sequential any help guys :(?

    even the old bmw is sequential so unrealistic
     
  5. Abdul Al-Amry

    Abdul Al-Amry
    2011 RD Indy 500 Winner

    On the gear lever, change the position to the H-Shifter. In GTr Evo controller menu pick the Logitech G25 H-Shifter profile to load. Adjust the gears (this will create a custom profile for the H-Shifter pattern) in the right menu. Click on First Gear then move the gear lever to the first gear position and so on.

    I hope this answers your question unless I misunderstood you. Which wont be the first lol.
     
  6. i tend to do a mixture each depending on which car i`m in. As Joao says though, i can be real easy to make silly mistake when downshifting after prolong periods
     
  7. Dave Stephenson

    Dave Stephenson
    Technical Administrator Staff Premium Member

    Since I got into NKP not so long back I had to learnt to use the H-Shifter. I now use it for pretty much everything but Mini's and F3000/FBMW. I love it and the extra options it gives mein some situations but it has meant some changes to how I approach others.
     
  8. I just wish I had some proper heel-to-toe pedals. The G25 pedals are not well suited for it.
     
  9. Dave Stephenson

    Dave Stephenson
    Technical Administrator Staff Premium Member

    they're a little better if you can get really horrizontal to them. its uncomfortable over long distances though.
     
  10. Shift types:

    Sequential (stick):
    WTCC (Exception: E90 manual, E46)
    GT Pro, Sport, Club
    WTCCX
    Radical
    F3000
    FBMW
    Gumpert, I believe.

    H:
    BMW E90 manuals, E46
    Mini (in 2008 at least, maybe it wasn't in 2006)
    WTCC 87
    Caterham
    Camaro
    Road cars (mostly)

    Paddles:
    None

    With the sequentials, heel-toeing on downshifts is advantageous when you need smoothness (e.g. in the wet) but not required; in the H cars use the clutch up and down, and heel-toe.
     
  11. What percentage of aliens/gifted drivers use paddle shift/auto-clutch as opposed to the stick(sequential or H)?
     
  12. Is driving a GT or touring car with a paddles and auto clutch really "alien" though?

    I've tried it, I was about 5 seconds faster on average. No practice, no setups. Just get in and drive.

    I'm even faster with a flight sim controller.

    Ok great. But is that driving? Is that skill?

    Discuss :beer:
     
  13. Don't go down that road, is pointless... a few illustrations of the matter:


    • I might be racing with all in-game help possible but... I'm missing a lag, harm and an eye… and now what? Is it skill?
    • I'm only doing 6.30 at the Nord Loop with my Vette... but my wife is on my lap… and again, now what, is that driving?
    • I'm doing 1.46 in Estoril in my potty with wheels (aka FWD potty)... but I'm playing in pure VGA screen of 13" and at 5 meters from it, am I skiled, or what?
    That’s one of the "pleasures" of the INET, we never know what the other (un)balanced guy over that connection his or is doing :D
     

  14. I see your point, but.... :)

    We are not playing an arcade racing game, we are playing a simulation.

    At some point you have to draw a line don't you?

    Please, I don't want to get anyone upset. Everyone is free to drive however they want. I'm not trying to be the "Sim Police", just speaking from a personal perspective.

    If your wife is on your lap but you are thinking about lap times at Nords, something is wrong! :laugh2:
     

  15. Take special notice of the parte between (), as it's important for the full understanding of the all concept… :in-love:
     
  16. I have a few questions. It could be that my answer is explained in other posts. Needles to say that I have not much experience:

    1. What is the difference between auto clutch on and off? I only found one difference when starting and standing still you have to push the clutch.

    2. I use on my G25 (just baught it), the sequential gear setting for all my wtcc cars (mostly driving this class). In real live do they push the clutch when shifting up? Do they push the clutch when shifting down?

    3. When driving the bmw sometimes I use the H pattern. Is handling the clutch in this situation the same as in a real car like most people are used to?

    4. Is pushing the stick gear up, and pulling gear down?

    5. Is using the left paddle (for F3000) gear up and right gear down?

    Thanks!!
     
  17. Evo's clutch isn't brilliant, you don't have to use the clutch when H-Shifting like you would in real life, alot of people say they're H-Shifting but what they're really doing is manual gear selection.

    Optional IRC. Alain Menu uses the clutch for downshifts :)

    Pretty much, parts are just able to take a bit more abuse I guess.

    When you want to change up you're accelerating, the G-Forces would then be pushing you back, so pulling the stick is easier. When changing down, you're braking, so the G-Forces will be throwing you forward, hence pushing the stick is easier :)

    Not sure, I'm right paddle up, left paddle down.
     
  18. I am trying to use heel-and-toe more, but I find people infront pulling away when I change gear, as they use auto-clutch. Only classes I'd use auto clutch for is the F3000s. The way they drive it's as if they have a clutch, but I find it hard to believe there is one in such a cramped footwell. One method I'm tring to learn, and am learning the hard way, is double-clutch downshifting. Tried it on the WTCC 87s and it was tricky to keep it stable.

    Then again, in Racing sims, do we need Double-shifting?

    Another thing that really grinds my gears is when people talk about skill because they do such and such a method. I'm not pointing any fingers, but skill has nothing much to do with using a clutch.